Smoove's stats through 5 games ( 4 in his case )

[EazyRoc]

So 5 years of Josh taking more jumpers every season followed by one season of Josh limiting his 3's while increasing his long 2pt jumpers over the prior year from 20% of his shots to 24% of his shots is convincing Josh to play the right way? Really? Woodson failed to mold or manage Josh. And is that remotely surprising when you hear his attitude about Josh's long jumpers? Drew has been even worse, but that is like comparing George W. Bush and Barack Obama to see which one was closer to a balanced budget. (Spoiler alert: Both sucked).

No Woodson fan, but after he left Josh shot about 100 MORE long 2s a game. That's not even adding 3 pointers into the mix. So no, Woodson was definitely better at reigning Smith in. All the numbers I've seen confirm this.

[hawkrule152]

No, what is annoying is watching anyone that calls themselves a HAWKS fan defending a player that clearly only cares about themselves and has played putrid throughout the season so far.

Defending Josh Smith? I wish you could find somewhere where I have even come close to defending him before. He can be great, and he can be a dumbass. In no way did that post defend him. All I was stating is seeing a new Josh Smith HATE post after every single game is annoying. After every loss, people post the same exact thing about him, just in a different thread. If you want my honest opinion, I would be 100% fine if we traded him, and for not even a superstar, hell give me a high 1st round pick with a decent C. We have much better chemistry without him on the team. He is simply a cancer. But I guess that is defending him, huh?

[Alex]

Let's trade Jenkins too because he has zero points on the season...

[ATLscrubLove]

Let's trade Jenkins too because he has zero points on the season...

Jenkins played today actually, got about 5-7 points I think. Did pretty well.

[Guest Walter]

I think all of us would rather have a Woody-controlled Josh rather than a LD-controlled Josh. I think none of us would give a 2nd max contract to JS regardless. So, my hope is: 1) LD goes, we replace him with a Sloan-type coach, and we sign JS less expensivelyOR2) We trade JS for a prospect or pick and do so early enough to ensure a high enough pick. #1 can happen, but it's very difficult (for any of us) to predict if there is a team out there willing to sign JS outright for a prohibitive near or max deal or if JS decides he'll take even a reasonable deal to just get out of ATL (although we might be able to get a lesser something in a S&T). For me, I have to lean to #2. All that being said, I think judging Josh on these 4 games is ridiculous. You don't play "healthy" for at least several weeks after a sprained ankle and this team is so new it's ridiculous. Not that we don't have a very good idea of what JS is or wants to be, but this season so far is not the barometer. I don't mind waiting a little but I also don't want to wait too long to make either decision. Should we decide to trade Josh, the longer we wait the worse any draft pick we have is. We won't get a great pick but perhaps a good enough one for 3rd best center prospect or a gem at a swing position (remember where Wade or Pierce were drafted). W

[Jody23]

I think all of us would rather have a Woody-controlled Josh rather than a LD-controlled Josh. I think none of us would give a 2nd max contract to JS regardless. So, my hope is: 1) LD goes, we replace him with a Sloan-type coach, and we sign JS less expensively OR 2) We trade JS for a prospect or pick and do so early enough to ensure a high enough pick. #1 can happen, but it's very difficult (for any of us) to predict if there is a team out there willing to sign JS outright for a prohibitive near or max deal or if JS decides he'll take even a reasonable deal to just get out of ATL (although we might be able to get a lesser something in a S&T). For me, I have to lean to #2. All that being said, I think judging Josh on these 4 games is ridiculous. You don't play "healthy" for at least several weeks after a sprained ankle and this team is so new it's ridiculous. Not that we don't have a very good idea of what JS is or wants to be, but this season so far is not the barometer. I don't mind waiting a little but I also don't want to wait too long to make either decision. Should we decide to trade Josh, the longer we wait the worse any draft pick we have is. We won't get a great pick but perhaps a good enough one for 3rd best center prospect or a gem at a swing position (remember where Wade or Pierce were drafted). W

I believe Josh will be traded, but I think it will be closer to the deadline. The offers should be interesting.

[AHF]

No Woodson fan, but after he left Josh shot about 100 MORE long 2s a game. That's not even adding 3 pointers into the mix. So no, Woodson was definitely better at reigning Smith in. All the numbers I've seen confirm this.

Woodson coached Smith = 6 years of terrible, terrible habits and no concerted effort to reign Smith in. Woodson engaged a minor check on his jumpers and never focused on developing him in the post. Drew coached Smith = total freedom for Josh to indulge his worse habits. Which was better for Smith? Woodson was better than Drew for Smith like Brook Lopez does a better job at maximizing his rebounds than Jason Collins. Is Lopez better? Yes. Is he still worthy of being condemned for the terrible job he does on the boards? Yes. To summarize: Great NBA Coach > Good NBA Coach > Average NBA Coach > Woodson Developing Smith > Drew Enabling Smith

[hawkman]

^^^Bottom line is, we need better coaching. If the ASG is really serious about doing things the right way, they have to bring in a competent coach to maximize the talent on this team. Drew is not that guy. NONE of our young players have been properly developed, NONE.

[EazyRoc]

Woodson coached Smith = 6 years of terrible, terrible habits and no concerted effort to reign Smith in. Woodson engaged a minor check on his jumpers and never focused on developing him in the post. Drew coached Smith = total freedom for Josh to indulge his worse habits. Which was better for Smith? Woodson was better than Drew for Smith like Brook Lopez does a better job at maximizing his rebounds than Jason Collins. Is Lopez better? Yes. Is he still worthy of being condemned for the terrible job he does on the boards? Yes. To summarize: Great NBA Coach > Good NBA Coach > Average NBA Coach > Woodson Developing Smith > Drew Enabling Smith

Josh himself did try to get better in the post, but he doesn't possess the skill to be consistently effective. I'm pretty sure Woodson was the coach when he trained with Hakeem over the summer. Somebody hit the nail on the head earlier in the thread. Josh shoots a lot of jumpers because he can't do anything else. No point in trying to face up if you can't shoot. He can't get his own shot in the post with consistency. He was doing his best Zaza impression against the Heat. Like I said, Woodson did a better job with Josh in a real, tangible way. He had quite a few career highs that year, one he just surpassed last year. If Josh had played last year like he played for Woody in 09-10, then he would have made the All Star team.

[AHF]

Like I said, Woodson did a better job with Josh in a real, tangible way.

Woodson had Josh for 6 years.

Drew has had Josh for 2 years.

Both seasons under Drew are among Smith's best 3 in PER, Win Shares and Win Shares Per 48.

Josh's 5 worst season in PER, WS and WS/48 are all under Woodson. Josh's career high TS% is under Drew.

What real tangible way are we talking about that the results over 6 years under Woodson are so much better than under Drew? The advanced statistics don't tell that story.

Mind you, I am not an apologist for Drew. I have repeatedly said that his enabling of Josh is the single worst thing he has done with this team. But I can't stomach pretending like Woodson was any kind of success in terms of getting Josh to play the "right way" or seeing "real, tangible" improved results relative to his play under Drew. Woodson got Josh to move somewhat in the right direction for 1 of 6 years he coached him and even then Josh significantly increased his rate of taking the worst shot in all of basketball - the low %, long 2pt shot. That isn't worthy of anything kind.

Edited November 12, 2012 by AHF

[EazyRoc]

If Josh took the amount of long 2s under Woodson last year, he would have shot around 50%. I believe his fg% as a result of poor shot selection is what kept him off the team. It's all speculation, I know. However, I think that would have given him the edge he needed. Also, You and I both know why Josh has career highs in the advanced stats now and it has little to do with Drew. I attribute it to Josh entering his prime and not to coaching.

[WraithSentinel]

I think both sides have just reach the point where it will be best to part ways. Smoove need a fresh start somewhere else. Hawks need to try to get some assets in return for him.

[AHF]

If Josh took the amount of long 2s under Woodson last year, he would have shot around 50%. I believe his fg% as a result of poor shot selection is what kept him off the team. It's all speculation, I know. However, I think that would have given him the edge he needed. Also, You and I both know why Josh has career highs in the advanced stats now and it has little to do with Drew. I attribute it to Josh entering his prime and not to coaching.

I sure know that Josh's improvement under Woodson wasn't due to coaching so that is fair.

[PSSSHHHRRR87]

19 pts, 11 rebs... not a bad night vs. Aldridge with a stomach bug. Hawks start playing as well as they did in the first half, we'll be alright.

[ViperXX79]

19 pts, 11 rebs... not a bad night vs. Aldridge with a stomach bug. Hawks start playing as well as they did in the first half, we'll be alright.

He was 9-22. Al only had 10 shots but only had 4 less points. Smoove is now a volume shooter I guess.