What's Danny Ferry's next move?

[Wretch]

Did I just read that Al has no star power, so the solution is to trade him for another player with zero star power and a pick in a draft that also lacks players of any star power outside of maybe the top 2? Yeesh. Are people even still in love with Tyreke after he put up 82 games worth of Ricky Davis/Andray Blatche chasing a triple double level of play in his rookie season....but nothing else since?

Do you think that Al can carry this team? Deep into the playoffs? I love Al and I would build this team with him and Teague. But something has to give. Smoove's knucklehead stigma is going to hurt his value, so we're not going to get the right return on him. I'd trade them both. However, it's not so much about swapping Al (or Josh for that matter) for a rookie with potential (or a rookie that people have soured on, either or). It's about starting over.

I understand people want to call Tyreke a bust...or one hit wonder.

Truth is, we love to do this with every player until he proves something. Tyreke is THREE YEARS OLD. If you tell me that Josh Smith or Al Horford have hit their ceiling after 5+ seasons, post season appearances, and All Star games...I might have to agree with you. I'd still argue there is room for improvement. But you tell me that a 3 year old former ROY is somehow washed up? And what has changed in his game? His points and passing are down, but so are his FG attempts and minutes played. I'm not sure what's happening with him, but he's still a quality prospect.

But hey...y'know, keep Al. Keep Josh. Keep LD... Keep the whole team. While we speculate on rookie and young talent futures, the net result of sitting on our hands has some pretty substantial data behind it. And it's not particularly promising.

[Admin]

What the heck is wrong with you guys and this obsession with Evans? Trading horford for him? This is really getting out of hand

Yeah never gonna happen. Nor should it! Not to mention, the Kings have a damn good PF prospect in Thomas Robinson.

[hazer]

Teague/Harris

Korver/Williams

Smoove/trade

Horf/Ivan

Dwight/Zaza

That's a title contender right there. Wishful thinkin.....

Edited December 6, 2012 by hazer

[MaceCase]

Stop touting his rookie of the year award, Wretch. It was a sham selection and plenty fans and pundits alike complained that the Kings, in the midst of yet another lost season, were just force feeding Evans to capture that award/little bit of history as some small measure of victory. His 20, 5 and 5 was just as forcefully fabricated as Ricky Davis/Bob Sura chasing a triple double except it stretched over an entire season rather than just a game. It's no shocker that as they've taken the ball out of his hands and not allowed him to do whatever he wants despite poor efficiency that his numbers have dropped.

He doesn't have star potential, he's big, he's strong, he can penetrate but he's not a high flyer or great athlete and sure as hell can't shoot for shit. He's nowhere even close to a Joe level prospect going into his restricted free agency. I don't get it, you were skeptical of Harden who is a baby just like Tyreke yet been worlds better as both a primary and secondary player. Is he a good player? Yea. Is he better than Al? f*** no. Not now, not likely ever. If you feel a trade has to go down then why are you settling for that garbage with your best trade chip? Why are you settling for that garbage with your best trade trip when you can just sign Evans and play him with your best trade chip or use that chip in a better trade package? You need to come off that "change for the sake of change" cliff and actually look at the things you are agreeing to.

[wolvetigers]

Guys no one said its going to be easy...Horford or Smith will go. I would tend to keep Smith b/c he can change the flow of the game on both sides of the court. Hawkw obviously have a lot of needs, and if you recall I was really pushing for Harden, but that option is now off the table.

The Hawks need a tall atheletic SG/SF player that is capable of creating his own offense and fitting in a team concept...Now I am by no means in love with Tyreke - I think he is considerably cheap atheletic and probably one of the few out there worth purusing. Hawks can't stand still we have to continue to move forward. We have a decent PG (with greater potential), We have a good set of bench players in Zaza, Lou Williams, korver, hopefully Jenkins...but need a starting SG/SF badly....So outside of Tyreke, Kevin Martin, etc. who else is available?

[yungsta]

What the heck is wrong with you guys and this obsession with Evans? Trading horford for him? This is really getting out of hand

lol at even trading someone for him when he will be a restricted free agent soon and the kings will most likely let him walk but to be honest I use to be high on evans I thought he could be like a dwade to us. A dynamic two guard who can post up, create for others and himself, and be a monster in transition.

I did some more research on him and im not a fan anymore. He has shown no signs of improvement, I dont like his attitude he is simply not a winner, and his ball dominant style will probaly really hurt teague's development.

[Wretch]

Stop touting his rookie of the year award, Wretch. It was a sham selection and plenty fans and pundits alike complained that the Kings, in the midst of yet another lost season, were just force feeding Evans to capture that award/little bit of history as some small measure of victory. His 20, 5 and 5 was just as forcefully fabricated as Ricky Davis/Bob Sura chasing a triple double except it stretched over an entire season rather than just a game. It's no shocker that as they've taken the ball out of his hands and not allowed him to do whatever he wants despite poor efficiency that his numbers have dropped.

He doesn't have star potential, he's big, he's strong, he can penetrate but he's not a high flyer or great athlete and sure as hell can't shoot for shit. He's nowhere even close to a Joe level prospect going into his restricted free agency. I don't get it, you were skeptical of Harden who is a baby just like Tyreke yet been worlds better as both a primary and secondary player. Is he a good player? Yea. Is he better than Al? f*** no. Not now, not likely ever. If you feel a trade has to go down then why are you settling for that garbage with your best trade chip? Why are you settling for that garbage with your best trade trip when you can just sign Evans and play him with your best trade chip or use that chip in a better trade package? You need to come off that "change for the sake of change" cliff and actually look at the things you are agreeing to.

I love how angry you guys get.

I never said James Hardin was terrible. I didn't even say that I didn't want him. My point about Hardin was that he wasn't the last stop. Some of you guys were touting him like he was the "OMG Savior!!!" for us. If we add a guy like him (or Tyreke), it has to be with the mindset that we are building with him, not around him...and we keep looking. With the addition of the lottery pick, that's a deal I would make.

I wouldn't swap Horford for Tyreke straight up. Just because I would never do a big/small swap (unless we're talking franchise PG). You just...don't do that. So don't turn this into Tyreke vs. Horford. I'm not going to debate how he put up those numbers anymore than people will debate with me whether or not the lottery is fixed. But...to quoth your damn self, "he's big, he's strong, he can penetrate." I like that. He's a passer and he's a good rebounding guard. I like how he plays the game and I'm not going to sh#t on his ROY award.

Change for the sake of change...

I'm sorry you guys can't see it. But there is something missing in Atlanta. It's not Al Horford and it's not Josh Smith. I love them both. I love their game...DEARLY. But it's a formula that hasn't proven anything but mediocre playoff results in going on 5 years. You guys don't see it, but it's the same formula we've used for decades. Unless you change something, you are going to get the same results.

I will be happy to eat all the crow that you guys are cooking for me. GOD, nothing would make me happier than to see this team - WITH AL AND JOSH - playing in big games next summer. I would really like to see that in my lifetime. But, I've watched this team (THIS PARTICULAR ONE) for long enough. I know what it's going to do. Now, please continue to scream and holler about players you don't like and their inflated stats and how stupid and wretched I am for wanting to trade somebody.

[Gray Mule]

A player I have been impressed with this season is not Superman but

Anderson Varejao of the Cleveland Cavs. I'd much rather have him

than The big man from the other end of the country.

To trade for him would probably be too high - - Maybe not, who knows.

It wouldn't hurt to ask.

As for signing CP3, we would have to give up on our own PG. and I don't

like that idea. CP3 would be great. Losing our present PG would stink.

Your thoughts?

[Admin]

I love how angry you guys get.

I never said James Hardin was terrible. I didn't even say that I didn't want him. My point about Hardin was that he wasn't the last stop. Some of you guys were touting him like he was the "OMG Savior!!!" for us. If we add a guy like him (or Tyreke), it has to be with the mindset that we are building with him, not around him...and we keep looking. With the addition of the lottery pick, that's a deal I would make.

I wouldn't swap Horford for Tyreke straight up. Just because I would never do a big/small swap (unless we're talking franchise PG). You just...don't do that. So don't turn this into Tyreke vs. Horford. I'm not going to debate how he put up those numbers anymore than people will debate with me whether or not the lottery is fixed. But...to quoth your damn self, "he's big, he's strong, he can penetrate." I like that. He's a passer and he's a good rebounding guard. I like how he plays the game and I'm not going to sh#t on his ROY award.

Change for the sake of change...

I'm sorry you guys can't see it. But there is something missing in Atlanta. It's not Al Horford and it's not Josh Smith. I love them both. I love their game...DEARLY. But it's a formula that hasn't proven anything but mediocre playoff results in going on 5 years. You guys don't see it, but it's the same formula we've used for decades. Unless you change something, you are going to get the same results.

I will be happy to eat all the crow that you guys are cooking for me. GOD, nothing would make me happier than to see this team - WITH AL AND JOSH - playing in big games next summer. I would really like to see that in my lifetime. But, I've watched this team (THIS PARTICULAR ONE) for long enough. I know what it's going to do. Now, please continue to scream and holler about players you don't like and their inflated stats and how stupid and wretched I am for wanting to trade somebody.

I just don't see how trading 1 of our 2 best players for an lesser sized and lesser performing Joe Johnson is going to help us. We had those same 2 best players along with a better Tyreke and we never got anywhere. I'm not advocating standing still, but trading for Tyreke and hoping for a gem in a bad draft doesn't sound like a plan of success. I'd rather build around those 2 players and see what we can add to them as I believe we're a lot better than some think we are, or at least we can be when we play up to our ability like we've seen against OKC and Denver and even Miami (although in a losing effort). We're going to have a boatload of cap space and potentially 2 first round picks next year and 3 good players to build around so let's work on sticking to that plan and not making a desperation move and acquiring a player who's own team doesn't seem to want him much.

[MaceCase]

I just don't see how trading 1 of our 2 best players for an lesser sized and lesser performing Joe Johnson is going to help us. We had those same 2 best players along with a better Tyreke and we never got anywhere. I'm not advocating standing still, but trading for Tyreke and hoping for a gem in a bad draft doesn't sound like a plan of success. I'd rather build around those 2 players and see what we can add to them as I believe we're a lot better than some think we are, or at least we can be when we play up to our ability like we've seen against OKC and Denver and even Miami (although in a losing effort). We're going to have a boatload of cap space and potentially 2 first round picks next year and 3 good players to build around so let's work on sticking to that plan and not making a desperation move and acquiring a player who's own team doesn't seem to want him much.

My thinking exactly. I'm reading Rookie of the Year like it's putting Harvard on your resume. Well what about 2 time All Star and an All NBA 3rd team selection in their 3rd and 4th year? Doesn't that trump a ROY award where this guy

was in a suit?

Especially now seeing as Al is demonstrating improvement from what he was when he got those selections....rather than backsliding.

Ok, Ok. If it's the pick that makes it worthwhile, well the gem of the draft is a 6'6" 220 SG..... sound familiar? Then it's an assortment of interchangeable PFs and lanky Cs populating the lottery. Talk about Al and Josh not being able to get it done and the desire for a move is fine but settling for that? Not so much. Unless, of course, we are factoring the high lotto pick that the team is likely to have in 2014 as part of that trade.

Edited December 6, 2012 by MaceCase

[HawkItus]

I've long said Al and Josh should both probably go. But, not for Tyreke Evans. If I was going to trade these two I would need a dynamic player(to replace josh's buzz) and a truely talented 4/5 with a developed low post game. I'm not at this point looking for a point guard. If they both stay what I need is an athletic freak at the 2/3 spot that will run with Teague and Josh. We don't need shooting, we need a guy who can finish strong at the rim and take his man off the dribble.

[Kimsey]

A year before Dwight could exercise his ETO with Orlando, I said he there was a good chance he would. I was called delusional, retarded, etc. etc.

Dwight is hard to predict until he signs a guaranteed contract. He's even letting his family handle his agents work. Might as well, teams here or China will throw whatever max they can muster. Kobe is trying to chase down his true legacy, Gasol finds himself in the twilight zone, Nash is aging badly right now. A future in LA is not a dynasty, far from it.

[tbhawksfan]

It's a terrible year for top FA's. After CP3 and D Howard, there's no one good, unrestricted. Al Jeff is good but he's not taking us to a title with what we have. Doesn't look like keeping Smith and looking for a FA is going to do it unless we get, CPS/ Dwight (which I put the odds at near 0).We could keep Horf, Smith, Teague, L Will, the rooks, and trade some valuable expirings for young players or picks before the deadline.If we could get Pekovic and keep the fore-mentioned core, how good is that?Trade Smith, the ending contract that probably won't go the home town contract discount route?What are Ferry's possibilities? What's the good option?I think we need to make a move for a nice young player to and my first two keepers are Horford and Teague. Invest in picks, keep cap space for next year and go forward with Horf, JT, JJ, Scott, the new young guy from trades and a couple of decent firsts and a mid to mate first, with cap space for 2014 FA. Of course trading Smith is the key to this strategy. Trade him, and other expirings to bring back a good youg player or two and manoeuver into a couple early picks.

[Guest]

It's a terrible year for top FA's. After CP3 and D Howard, there's no one good, unrestricted. Al Jeff is good but he's not taking us to a title with what we have. Doesn't look like keeping Smith and looking for a FA is going to do it unless we get, CPS/ Dwight (which I put the odds at near 0).We could keep Horf, Smith, Teague, L Will, the rooks, and trade some valuable expirings for young players or picks before the deadline.If we could get Pekovic and keep the fore-mentioned core, how good is that?Trade Smith, the ending contract that probably won't go the home town contract discount route?What are Ferry's possibilities? What's the good option?I think we need to make a move for a nice young player to and my first two keepers are Horford and Teague. Invest in picks, keep cap space for next year and go forward with Horf, JT, JJ, Scott, the new young guy from trades and a couple of decent firsts and a mid to mate first, with cap space for 2014 FA. Of course trading Smith is the key to this strategy. Trade him, and other expirings to bring back a good youg player or two and manoeuver into a couple early picks.

Which young good player?

[tbhawksfan]

Which young good player?

Use your imagination. What could Smith / Zaza / Morrow / Harris / Stevensen (maybe Korver but I'd love to keep him) bring back in the way of young players and nice picks? We could include Houston's prot first for a higher first in a combo trade...etc...If we go past the deadline we will lose all the expirings that we don't re-sign for nothing. The re-signings won't be cheap; they're quality rotation players or Smith who will want at least $14M a year.or, we trade em all. I think we could keep Horf, JT, L Wil, and the rooks and walk away with a couple of nice oyung players and a couple of very high firsts and a mid to late or two.An example might be sending Smith to Houston for a combo of their nice young bigs on long deals and work it a three way to get back a nice pick with say Jones and Montiejunas.The idea is that we keep the core, minus Smith and get three or four highr quality potential young players to add to the mix while keeping a very good cap situation for next off-season.

[Wretch]

I just don't see how trading 1 of our 2 best players for an lesser sized and lesser performing Joe Johnson is going to help us. We had those same 2 best players along with a better Tyreke and we never got anywhere. I'm not advocating standing still, but trading for Tyreke and hoping for a gem in a bad draft doesn't sound like a plan of success. I'd rather build around those 2 players and see what we can add to them as I believe we're a lot better than some think we are, or at least we can be when we play up to our ability like we've seen against OKC and Denver and even Miami (although in a losing effort). We're going to have a boatload of cap space and potentially 2 first round picks next year and 3 good players to build around so let's work on sticking to that plan and not making a desperation move and acquiring a player who's own team doesn't seem to want him much.

We can ping pong battle over Tyreke all day. We can also talk about what a particular lottery prospect is going to do for us. Two things though...

First, if you're looking at this as "OMG! These rookies and young guys are going to become superstars and we're going to the FINALS!" Then you've got the wrong perspective on my view. Before we go any further though, we've got to address the elephant in the room....

You guys want to win now.

You want to tweak the team.

You don't want to develop talent.

You want to win without losing.

You don't want to take a step back.

You have no faith in the lottery.

I get it. I really do. And I understand and as a fan, I sort of feel the same way...

But now, when those jumpshots stop falling (and they will stop falling) and they force one of our frontcourt guys to put it on the floor, and they fall asleep on the boards (as they are prone to do). And we have no answer for these guys that are hitting shots... And we get ousted in the 1st or 2nd round (and don't you act like you haven't seen this for the past 4 years...or in the 90's)... But when the gut check comes...for a second, you will see it. At that point, some of you guys (a lot of you) start thinking about how to tweak it and make it better. Then you forget all about it.

Me? I'm just sitting here like..."The core design of that has to change." Dude, I have felt this way since Orlando beat the breaks off of us.

What's funny is, that's what other teams DO. These cats...man, they just fire coaches and they trade players and they gamble. Meanwhile, we just kinda sit there with our arms around our little team and whatever coach we're protecting and our little 40+ wins and our middle of the pack seed...like Scrooge, huddled over his money, pinching out a penny here or there. But we don't even have Scrooge funds...lol

So, I'm not looking at this from the perspective of tweaking and making us better in the short term. I'm just...not. I have no qualms about taking a step back. Not worried about wins. The only thing that I have my eyes set on is building the team that other teams fear. Say what you want, but for that, you need a guy that makes teams nervous. You need an answer for getting punched in the face. We don't have one.

Secondly, I've been in enough roundabouts over players through the years to know that it's pointless. We're not drafting anybody worth mentioning right now, so I don't have anything to discuss on it. There's no point in it until Ferry give us some indication as to what he's going to do with our team (besides sit on the capspace and pray that a diamond in the rough or a superstar falls into our laps).

Tell you guys what you do though...bookmark this thread and shove it in my face at the end of the season.

[Crow. Crow. Crow. Crow. Crow. Crow. Crow. Crow. Crow. Crow. Crow. Crow. Crow. Crow. Crow. Crow. Crow. Crow. Crow.Crow. Crow. Crow. Crow. Crow. Crow. Crow. Crow. Crow. Crow. Crow. Crow. Crow. Crow. Crow. Crow. Crow. Crow. Crow. Crow. Crow. Crow. Crow. Crow. Crow. Crow. Crow. Crow. Crow. Crow. Crow. Crow. Crow. Crow. Crow. Crow. Crow.Crow. Crow. Crow. Crow. Crow. Crow. Crow. Crow. Crow. Crow. Crow. Crow. Crow. Crow. Crow. Crow. Crow. Crow. Crow. Crow. Crow. Crow. Crow. Crow. Crow. Crow. Crow. Crow. Crow. Crow. Crow. Crow. Crow. Crow. Crow. Crow. Crow.Crow. Crow. Crow. Crow. Crow. Crow. Crow.]

^^I will humbly bow and eat all that crow if this team (as is) can rise above a middling playoff run. Not trying to predict the future. I'm just...not impressed with the identity of this team right now. I love Horford and I love Teague. To me, those are my keepers. But, if the right deal came though, there is nothing I wouldn't do to ignite a rebuild right now.

[Guest]

We can ping pong battle over Tyreke all day. We can also talk about what a particular lottery prospect is going to do for us. Two things though...

First, if you're looking at this as "OMG! These rookies and young guys are going to become superstars and we're going to the FINALS!" Then you've got the wrong perspective on my view. Before we go any further though, we've got to address the elephant in the room....

You guys want to win now.

You want to tweak the team.

You don't want to develop talent.

You want to win without losing.

You don't want to take a step back.

You have no faith in the lottery.

I get it. I really do. And I understand and as a fan, I sort of feel the same way...

But now, when those jumpshots stop falling (and they will stop falling) and they force one of our frontcourt guys to put it on the floor, and they fall asleep on the boards (as they are prone to do). And we have no answer for these guys that are hitting shots... And we get ousted in the 1st or 2nd round (and don't you act like you haven't seen this for the past 4 years...or in the 90's)... But when the gut check comes...for a second, you will see it. At that point, some of you guys (a lot of you) start thinking about how to tweak it and make it better. Then you forget all about it.

Me? I'm just sitting here like..."The core design of that has to change." Dude, I have felt this way since Orlando beat the breaks off of us.

What's funny is, that's what other teams DO. These cats...man, they just fire coaches and they trade players and they gamble. Meanwhile, we just kinda sit there with our arms around our little team and whatever coach we're protecting and our little 40+ wins and our middle of the pack seed...like Scrooge, huddled over his money, pinching out a penny here or there. But we don't even have Scrooge funds...lol

So, I'm not looking at this from the perspective of tweaking and making us better in the short term. I'm just...not. I have no qualms about taking a step back. Not worried about wins. The only thing that I have my eyes set on is building the team that other teams fear. Say what you want, but for that, you need a guy that makes teams nervous. You need an answer for getting punched in the face. We don't have one.

Secondly, I've been in enough roundabouts over players through the years to know that it's pointless. We're not drafting anybody worth mentioning right now, so I don't have anything to discuss on it. There's no point in it until Ferry give us some indication as to what he's going to do with our team (besides sit on the capspace and pray that a diamond in the rough or a superstar falls into our laps).

Tell you guys what you do though...bookmark this thread and shove it in my face at the end of the season.

[Crow. Crow. Crow. Crow. Crow. Crow. Crow. Crow. Crow. Crow. Crow. Crow. Crow. Crow. Crow. Crow. Crow. Crow. Crow.Crow. Crow. Crow. Crow. Crow. Crow. Crow. Crow. Crow. Crow. Crow. Crow. Crow. Crow. Crow. Crow. Crow. Crow. Crow. Crow. Crow. Crow. Crow. Crow. Crow. Crow. Crow. Crow. Crow. Crow. Crow. Crow. Crow. Crow. Crow. Crow. Crow.Crow. Crow. Crow. Crow. Crow. Crow. Crow. Crow. Crow. Crow. Crow. Crow. Crow. Crow. Crow. Crow. Crow. Crow. Crow. Crow. Crow. Crow. Crow. Crow. Crow. Crow. Crow. Crow. Crow. Crow. Crow. Crow. Crow. Crow. Crow. Crow. Crow.Crow. Crow. Crow. Crow. Crow. Crow. Crow.]

^^I will humbly bow and eat all that crow if this team (as is) can rise above a middling playoff run. Not trying to predict the future. I'm just...not impressed with the identity of this team right now. I love Horford and I love Teague. To me, those are my keepers. But, if the right deal came though, there is nothing I wouldn't do to ignite a rebuild right now.

I don't think anybody is. Trading the untradeable contract was move #1. Ferry has said it time and time again, that trade was done to give us flexible going foward. Nobody thinks this team as is is going to win a ring, nobody thinks this team will have the same look next year, maybe not even at the trade deadline. We are just over a month into the season with less than 20 games played...tons of options available. Al for Evans and 1st....NO, NO, NO.

[benhillboy]

A player I have been impressed with this season is not Superman butAnderson Varejao of the Cleveland Cavs. I'd much rather have himthan The big man from the other end of the country.

You and me both. I don't see how it isn't evident to everyone that Howard is a cancer of the terminal kind. Varajao has been balling out and is actually a great teammate. Would love to have him here stacking up offensive boards at good value. I'm guessing Ferry selected him in Cleveland, so I'm sure he isn't surprised of the breakout he's having. I couldn't begin to wrap my mind around all the possibilities going forward. I just know we have numerous options, money to throw, and that Ferry is much more equipped to make these decisions than any of us. When this roster was set, none of us forsaw them defending and passing like they are. Whatever Ferry decides, I'm on board with 100%.

[Admin]

Wretch, excellent post! I get what you're saying and I'm not afraid to take a chance to really make this team better, but in no way shape or form does Tyreke help with that. If you want to move Al and/or Josh then fine but you've got to get a hell of a lot better player in return than Tyreke.

[HawkItus]

The problem here is we don't know how this league is going to play out guys. Right now it looks like the music is going to stop and a few teams won't have a chair. We were one of those teams and but (thanks Ferry) we have one now. This season is a teaser. We won't truly see the fall out until 2015. The thunder gave us our first glimpse. Be patient.