“I don’t roll with that"

[ryandauwalker]

Josh's comment after Drew calls his team soft in the first half. Horford and Williams agreed and took responsibility. Josh pouts like a child.I know it's tough for us to decide what to do with Josh, but comments like that after he throws the all away on a crucial possession and screws up any chance at a hail mary. For those here who have played basketball in high school or college, you know that one cannot begin to quantify the negative effects that "bad apples" have in the locker room. Further evidence that Ferry needs to trade him while we can unless I'm taking this comment out of context.

[Kimsey]

Josh and Al played a hell of a game. Pek and AK47 were just unarguable tonight.

[EazyRoc]

So was he supposed to agree ? Am I understanding this correctly ?

[tbhawksfan]

So was he supposed to agree ? Am I understanding this correctly ?

Eh.. yeah, he is supposed to agree with his coach. Of cousre, a good coach would create a game plan to get the desired results and if a player failed to adhere to the plan, the coach would impose whatever consequences necessary.If Smith isn't soft, why is he attempting to remain outside? Maybe because outside of the paint, his opponents are smaller than him.He doesn't have the SF game; can't shoot, dribble or guard the quickness out there. And, since Horf and Smith are our only two talented inside players, we need him inside. That is why he should be inside. Whatever Drew's short-comings, he made it clear that Smith was settleing for too many jumpers. Smith should listen and move inside. That seems to be the issue.

[tbhawksfan]

You can't win with uncoachable players. If the players do what the coach says and it doesn't work, then you either need better players or another coach. In the Hawks case, we need to unload the uncoachable Smith and get a better coach.I would still try to trade Smith for Pek and Williams in a second.Don't care about Smith's numbers, they are not "team" numbers.

[Mully]

Josh thinks he plays every position on the court, his arrogance/stupidity is just hilarious. At times he thinks he is the point guard, others he thinks he is Jordan.

[EazyRoc]

I call this making something out of nothing, so everyone can gang up on the local whipping boy.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Once again, this is on Larry Drew.Why are you trying to turn SOFT players into TOUGH GUYS?Josh is in denial if he doesn't think he's soft, because he is. But Drew is at fault because he refused to start a big lineup with Smith at SF, Horford at PF, and Zaza at C. It was the big lineup that got us back in the game. But Drew's obsession with jumpshooters is what is limiting the potential of this team.Pekovic pretty much looked like Shaq tonight. 25 points - 18 rebounds? Really?Statistically, Josh and Al had fantastic games. The problem was at SF, in which Korver couldn't guard anybody tonight, and the bench did no better. When Drew FINALLY went to the big lineup, the Hawks made their run and almost pulled the game out.But guess who got a DNP tonight.IVANThe one guy on the team who we KNOW is not SOFT, but he gets a DNP?Why Larry? Why?

[Plainview1981]

Josh and Al played a hell of a game. Pek and AK47 were just unarguable tonight.

If AK47 is "unguardable"... Then your defense has a problem.

[Plainview1981]

Once again, this is on Larry Drew.Why are you trying to turn SOFT players into TOUGH GUYS?Josh is in denial if he doesn't think he's soft, because he is. But Drew is at fault because he refused to start a big lineup with Smith at SF, Horford at PF, and Zaza at C. It was the big lineup that got us back in the game. But Drew's obsession with jumpshooters is what is limiting the potential of this team.Pekovic pretty much looked like Shaq tonight. 25 points - 18 rebounds? Really?Statistically, Josh and Al had fantastic games. The problem was at SF, in which Korver couldn't guard anybody tonight, and the bench did no better. When Drew FINALLY went to the big lineup, the Hawks made their run and almost pulled the game out.But guess who got a DNP tonight.IVANThe one guy on the team who we KNOW is not SOFT, but he gets a DNP?Why Larry? Why?

That's a great point. I know Ivan is not the best rebounder, but unlike Teague... Ivan usually does SOMETHING as long as he is getting a chance. The complaints against Larry in regards to Teague proved to be somewhat bogus as Teague's play has been up and down even when Drew shows signs of having more faith in him. But I haven't seen anything to suggest that it's the same way with Ivan.

[Plainview1981]

Eh.. yeah, he is supposed to agree with his coach. Of cousre, a good coach would create a game plan to get the desired results and if a player failed to adhere to the plan, the coach would impose whatever consequences necessary.If Smith isn't soft, why is he attempting to remain outside? Maybe because outside of the paint, his opponents are smaller than him.He doesn't have the SF game; can't shoot, dribble or guard the quickness out there. And, since Horf and Smith are our only two talented inside players, we need him inside. That is why he should be inside. Whatever Drew's short-comings, he made it clear that Smith was settleing for too many jumpers. Smith should listen and move inside. That seems to be the issue.

Josh Smith knows. He went a whole season and pretty much avoided the 3pt line. Which means he can resist taking those shots. But he doesn't. His rebounding has fallen back down after a fairly strong year, and in a year in which he needed to play his best... He has had an average season at best. Last year was the best he is ever going to play. I see no reason to believe otherwise. Last year was his career year and he only has a handful more years before his athletic ability starts to drop off. Then your left with a tweener with no jumper, a bad attitude and selfish play. He knows deep down inside that he is not a good shooter, and he can resist taking that 3pt shot. But he is too selfish to do what is best for the team and that's all there is to be said.

[DrReality]

If Drew makes this statement but doesn't follow through...... He's done. It's either his way or Josh's way

[coachx]

Josh Smith knows. He went a whole season and pretty much avoided the 3pt line. Which means he can resist taking those shots. But he doesn't. His rebounding has fallen back down after a fairly strong year, and in a year in which he needed to play his best... He has had an average season at best. Last year was the best he is ever going to play. I see no reason to believe otherwise. Last year was his career year and he only has a handful more years before his athletic ability starts to drop off. Then your left with a tweener with no jumper, a bad attitude and selfish play. He knows deep down inside that he is not a good shooter, and he can resist taking that 3pt shot. But he is too selfish to do what is best for the team and that's all there is to be said.

[thecampster]

Someone explain this to me like I'm stupid please. Josh, the power forward, had 7 assists last night (second overall), led the team in rebounds, led the team in scoring while being 3rd in shots taken, was 50% from 3, shot 57% from the field, blocked 2 shots and got a steal. Why exactly are we complaining about Josh Smith when Lou/Jeff combined shot 6 of 15 (40%), had 1 more assist combined than the power forward. All of this while playing on a bum hip that he should really sit out a week for. He outrebounded/outscored Horford again, shot a higher percentage than Al while taking 2 less shots.

Please God explain this to me. Why is Josh the problem again?

Let's take a trip down memory lane. The year is 1994, February. Sporting the best record in the league, the Atlanta Hawks hit a rough stretch losing 6 of 9 games and decide a change is in order. Their high flying star seems to be too self focused and there is this up and comer they've got their eye on that they think will propel them to a championship after several near misses. The Hawks trade Dominique Wilkens for Danny Ferry. The hawks are 39-17 at this time and finish 57-25, are eliminated in the playoffs and Danny Manning bolts the next season. Leading to the signing of Dikembe, more near misses and then a lost decade of basketball. Their lack of commitment to their best players cost them dearly in the eyes of players in the league and they are one stupid move away from doing it again. Everyone thought Nique was the problem then too. I know...I had tickets to 8 games that year.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Someone explain this to me like I'm stupid please. Josh, the power forward, had 7 assists last night (second overall), led the team in rebounds, led the team in scoring while being 3rd in shots taken, was 50% from 3, shot 57% from the field, blocked 2 shots and got a steal. Why exactly are we complaining about Josh Smith when Lou/Jeff combined shot 6 of 15 (40%), had 1 more assist combined than the power forward. All of this while playing on a bum hip that he should really sit out a week for. He outrebounded/outscored Horford again, shot a higher percentage than Al while taking 2 less shots. Please God explain this to me. Why is Josh the problem again? Let's take a trip down memory lane. The year is 1994, February. Sporting the best record in the league, the Atlanta Hawks hit a rough stretch losing 6 of 9 games and decide a change is in order. Their high flying star seems to be too self focused and there is this up and comer they've got their eye on that they think will propel them to a championship after several near misses. The Hawks trade Dominique Wilkens for Danny Ferry. The hawks are 39-17 at this time and finish 57-25, are eliminated in the playoffs and Danny Manning bolts the next season. Leading to the signing of Dikembe, more near misses and then a lost decade of basketball. Their lack of commitment to their best players cost them dearly in the eyes of players in the league and they are one stupid move away from doing it again. Everyone thought Nique was the problem then too. I know...I had tickets to 8 games that year.

Oh no you don't. Don't you DARE compare Josh Smith to the great Dominique Wilkins. Not even in the same stratosphere. There were 2 major reasons why the Hawks traded Nique.1) They were afraid that his asking price at the end of the year was going to be too high to re-sign2) Lenny Wilkins wasn't that fond of him, seeing that he cared more about scoring over defense.The DIFFERENCE, is that Nique was still the only guy on the team who could literally put the team on his back, even if that starting to occur less frequently. Also, we were the #1 seed in the East at a time where no Michael Jordan was in the league. You do NOT make that trade at that point. Nique deserved his shot at a title, on what was potentially the best team in Atlanta Hawk history. But the Hawks traded Nique for a guy who they thought was better than Nique, but didn't have nearly the competitive drive that Nique had.Josh Smith is what makes us good . . and what holds us back at the same time. Most of the fan base knows this. He is a great all-around player. He is NOT a superstar. And the reason why he's not even an All-Star, is because he makes CRITICAL MISTAKES at critical times.He doesn't deserve any blame for what happened last night. That's on our coach, who refused to play a bigger lineup vs the Wolves. But we all know who and what Josh Smith is. He is NOT the guy to be building a team around, because he's a complimentary player. And complimentary players are expendable.Which means EVERYONE on the team is expendable, if we can find a better player, or better combination of players to replace them.

[Jody23]

Once again, this is on Larry Drew.Why are you trying to turn SOFT players into TOUGH GUYS?Josh is in denial if he doesn't think he's soft, because he is. But Drew is at fault because he refused to start a big lineup with Smith at SF, Horford at PF, and Zaza at C. It was the big lineup that got us back in the game. But Drew's obsession with jumpshooters is what is limiting the potential of this team.Pekovic pretty much looked like Shaq tonight. 25 points - 18 rebounds? Really?Statistically, Josh and Al had fantastic games. The problem was at SF, in which Korver couldn't guard anybody tonight, and the bench did no better. When Drew FINALLY went to the big lineup, the Hawks made their run and almost pulled the game out.But guess who got a DNP tonight.IVANThe one guy on the team who we KNOW is not SOFT, but he gets a DNP?Why Larry? Why?

I have to agree here. The ultimate source of softness was LD and his coaching. He continues to show that he cares very little for defense and rebounding and will even forsake these things for more jump shooting as evidenced by the lineups he puts on the floor. Against a lineup with big Pekovic and Kirikenko, he goes with a small lineup for the first three and half quarters of the game, getting absolutely hammered in the paint and on the boards on BOTH ends. Only when desperation sets in does he put ZaZa out there with Josh and Al. The result is the Hawks make a run and would have won the game but ran out of time. I don't fault any of our players for last night. They continue to be handy capped by a SOFT coach with a one tracked mind.

[Guest]

I am tired of watching "non-smart basketball"

[EazyRoc]

Oh no you don't. Don't you DARE compare Josh Smith to the great Dominique Wilkins. Not even in the same stratosphere. There were 2 major reasons why the Hawks traded Nique.1) They were afraid that his asking price at the end of the year was going to be too high to re-sign2) Lenny Wilkins wasn't that fond of him, seeing that he cared more about scoring over defense.The DIFFERENCE, is that Nique was still the only guy on the team who could literally put the team on his back, even if that starting to occur less frequently. Also, we were the #1 seed in the East at a time where no Michael Jordan was in the league. You do NOT make that trade at that point. Nique deserved his shot at a title, on what was potentially the best team in Atlanta Hawk history. But the Hawks traded Nique for a guy who they thought was better than Nique, but didn't have nearly the competitive drive that Nique had.Josh Smith is what makes us good . . and what holds us back at the same time. Most of the fan base knows this. He is a great all-around player. He is NOT a superstar. And the reason why he's not even an All-Star, is because he makes CRITICAL MISTAKES at critical times.He doesn't deserve any blame for what happened last night. That's on our coach, who refused to play a bigger lineup vs the Wolves. But we all know who and what Josh Smith is. He is NOT the guy to be building a team around, because he's a complimentary player. And complimentary players are expendable.Which means EVERYONE on the team is expendable, if we can find a better player, or better combination of players to replace them.

I agree with this, but I think you're focusing too much on the analogy. Josh Smith can say the sky is blue and someone will rag on him for it. Hes become the scapegoat for all that's wrong with this TEAM. Its similar to how Mike Vick got treated as the scapegoat for the Falcons struggles.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

I agree with this, but I think you're focusing too much on the analogy. Josh Smith can say the sky is blue and someone will rag on him for it. Hes become the scapegoat for all that's wrong with this TEAM. Its similar to how Mike Vick got treated as the scapegoat for the Falcons struggles.

That's actually the better comparison . . . Josh Smith and Michael Vick . . only from a scapegoat standpoint.Here's the thing though. Vick WAS a big reason why the Falcons couldn't get to that next level. He was easily the league's most exciting player while in ATL, and the city loved him But he wasn't the leader nor the passer the team needed. And despite Matt Ryan never winning a playoff game, he has proven that Vick could be replaced. Now he has to prove that he can win.The thing about the Hawks is that we can easily move Horford to his PF spot, if we can find an adequate big man ( above Zaza's level ) to put in the middle. And honestly, when Ivan got his chance at bigger minutes with Josh ( or Horford ) out of the lineup, he responded with above average numbers.Without Josh in the lineup, Horford could not only equal or surpass the points and rebound level of Josh, we may see a lot of the bad things that Josh brings to the table flat out disappear from this team. Remember, Josh had a career year ( albeit an inefficient one ) with no Horford in the lineup. So the opposite can ring true if Horford was here, but Josh wasn't around.Josh's fans want to may like he is indispensable. But if the Hawks were to flip Josh Smith for Rudy Gay right now, it's not like the Hawks would dramatically become worse. They may not become markedly better, but they wouldn't get worse.We'd have our legit SF, Horford would move to PF, and Zaza to C. And Ivan's minutes would increase. And Josh's bad/wild plays would disappear from this team. The defense may suffer, but the offense may become even better.I'll say it again though. Last night was NOT the time to be pointing a finger at Josh, even if he did throw the ball away at the end of the game. That finger needs to be squarely pointed at the coach.

[thecampster]

Oh no you don't. Don't you DARE compare Josh Smith to the great Dominique Wilkins. Not even in the same stratosphere. There were 2 major reasons why the Hawks traded Nique.1) They were afraid that his asking price at the end of the year was going to be too high to re-sign2) Lenny Wilkins wasn't that fond of him, seeing that he cared more about scoring over defense.The DIFFERENCE, is that Nique was still the only guy on the team who could literally put the team on his back, even if that starting to occur less frequently. Also, we were the #1 seed in the East at a time where no Michael Jordan was in the league. You do NOT make that trade at that point. Nique deserved his shot at a title, on what was potentially the best team in Atlanta Hawk history. But the Hawks traded Nique for a guy who they thought was better than Nique, but didn't have nearly the competitive drive that Nique had.Josh Smith is what makes us good . . and what holds us back at the same time. Most of the fan base knows this. He is a great all-around player. He is NOT a superstar. And the reason why he's not even an All-Star, is because he makes CRITICAL MISTAKES at critical times.He doesn't deserve any blame for what happened last night. That's on our coach, who refused to play a bigger lineup vs the Wolves. But we all know who and what Josh Smith is. He is NOT the guy to be building a team around, because he's a complimentary player. And complimentary players are expendable.Which means EVERYONE on the team is expendable, if we can find a better player, or better combination of players to replace them.

Of course I can't compare them. Nique was a superior offensive player. But not defensively. They are very different players, both with flaws and that same logic was the logic used to ship Nique out of town. The "he's so good he's holding us back" and "it's all about him" and "Manning could do the same on this team.

You ship Josh out for a SF and you get smaller, not bigger and our number one issue is dealing with big front lines, not with small forward play.