Tonight was without a doubt a statement game...

[Ruckus]

Posters like this?? Not sure what you mean...

[TheNorthCydeRises]

But does that mean I want him gone? No. Like Chris Webber was saying, he is our best player on the team, and he brings way more to the table than bad shot selections. It's time to open your eyes and see what he brings to the table that no other NBA player can do. Everyone knows how bad his shot selection is. With that being said, I would rather trade the soft robot (Al Horford). I wouldn't mind trading either or, but Smoove is the better player, and would be better with a superstar as well. If the prices is right, both can be sent out.

Just because you're the best player on the team, doesn't mean that people can't replace you.The issue with Josh has ALWAYS been that if push came to shove, Al Horford CAN replace Josh at the PF spot. That means that Zaza has to hold his own at C . . and Ivan has to hold his own as a backup PF.Horford basically stepped up and had an above average game for him. But Zaza and Ivan had a combined 21 points - 14 rebs - 9 assts.I'll say this again . . . slowly.Ivan . . Johnson . . is . . a . . better . . offensive . . scorer . . than . . Josh . . SmithAnd because of that, Josh's offense will NOT be missed.Zaza played on the inside, and even hit some foul line type jumpers.Teague had much more control of the team with Josh out.Without Magic "Josh-son", the Hawks offense looked better . . . again.It's time folks. Stop defending the dude like we can't possibly survive without him. We're proving that we not only can survive without him. We're proving that we can THRIVE without him.Deal him for a good SF, and a pick, and move on.Call up Mark Cuban . . . see if he'd send Shawn Marion and Vince Carter for Smith. They need a shot in the arm to not only put them back in the playoff hunt, but to also satisfy Dirk in his final year. See if Cuban wants Josh.Shawn has another year left on his deal, and is a good defensive player. Vince is a shooter you can bring off the bench at SF, and has a team option at the end of the year. Just do the deal and move on.

[AHawks89]

You see this:

I see this:

[TheNorthCydeRises]

PG - TeagueG - Harris / Lou / JenkinsF - Marion / Korver / CarterPF - Horford / IvanC - ZazaIf that is our new 10 man rotation, with the big men able to rotate at those frontcourt spots, and guards able to rotate at the guard spots, I'd take that all day in a Josh trade.Harris can play both PG and the 2. Which would leave Lou as strictly a 2. Jenkins plays a spot role.Korver and Carter can handle the SF spot behind Marion ( although Drew would probably still start Korver )Marion ( in a small lineup ) can play the PF spot. Ivan can play PF.And both Zaza and Horford can play C.We're going to have money at the end of the year anyway, with Horford, Marion, Lou, and Jenkins under contract. Make a decision on whether to lock up Teague, then go after one big free agent ( Al Jefferson ). If Harris wants to come back, consider bringing him back too.Just move on from the Josh-opera

[TheNorthCydeRises]

You see this:

I see this:

Like Two Face in the Batman comics.

This year, Josh Smith leads the team in Defensive Win Shares at 2.2

This year, Josh Smith is DEAD LAST in Offensive Win Shaes at -0.7 ( which is incredible for a guy with his usage )

Seeing that, either his offensive role needs to be dramatically reduced, or we need to trade him before his stock REALLY plummets.

[AHawks89]

We can replace Josh's offensive game with anyone in the league. Same could be said about Horford. That wouldn't be hard to do one bit, but how many people will we find that will want to and play defense, block shots, rebound, & pass like Josh? Hardly any. Like I said, I'm not to concerned about his offense unless he's shooting jumpers all game. If we lose Josh, we're going to need someone who plays in the post because Horford doesn't. They both love to shoot from the perimeter, but I'm taking a wild guess that Josh has shot more attempts in the paint than Horford has. Point is, it is easy to replace a Horford, but not a Smoove.

Edited January 17, 2013 by AHawks89

[Ruckus]

Horford makes his shots from the outside. I feel like you don't actually watch the games.

[AHawks89]

Are you even reading? Is that all you're going to say? Answer this for me.

Is it easier to find someone like Horford or Smoove? Hell, I'd take JJ Hickson over Horford. Cheaper too.

[AHawks89]

Hickson plays more in the paint, has better FG% and FT%, has more rebounds with less amount of playing time, too. That means he is better, and we can get him cheaper, right?

[Ruckus]

**Bangs head into wall**Ugh. This is going backwards. As you said earlier, we will just have to agree to disagree and leave it at that. Lol.

Edited January 17, 2013 by HawkFan

[AHawks89]

Didn't think so.

[wolvetigers]

PG - TeagueG - Harris / Lou / JenkinsF - Marion / Korver / CarterPF - Horford / IvanC - ZazaIf that is our new 10 man rotation, with the big men able to rotate at those frontcourt spots, and guards able to rotate at the guard spots, I'd take that all day in a Josh trade.Harris can play both PG and the 2. Which would leave Lou as strictly a 2. Jenkins plays a spot role.Korver and Carter can handle the SF spot behind Marion ( although Drew would probably still start Korver )Marion ( in a small lineup ) can play the PF spot. Ivan can play PF.And both Zaza and Horford can play C.We're going to have money at the end of the year anyway, with Horford, Marion, Lou, and Jenkins under contract. Make a decision on whether to lock up Teague, then go after one big free agent ( Al Jefferson ). If Harris wants to come back, consider bringing him back too.Just move on from the Josh-opera

Now I agree with you up until you mentioned Vince Carter and Shawn Marion....NO Way But i truly believe Josh wants out of Atlanta - he doesnt want to seem like the bad guy demanding a trade, but he is pretty much gone - If we believe what Jalen Rose and his sources say....Now the real question is what can Atlanta get for him....

[wolvetigers]

Hickson plays more in the paint, has better FG% and FT%, has more rebounds with less amount of playing time, too. That means he is better, and we can get him cheaper, right?

Is Hickson an Allstar? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO, nor will he ever be one. Al Horford is an Allstar and he actually is pretty cheap for us

[Ruckus]

I think the forum speaks for itself on that matter. And if you don't know my answer to your silly question by now then I do not know what the f@ck we have been debating here.Bottom line is it doesn't matter what either of us think. We will see who Danny Ferry thinks is a more replaceable asset.

[Ruckus]

Is Hickson an Allstar? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO, nor will he ever be one. Al Horford is an Allstar and he actually is pretty cheap for us

Thank you for reminding me. People always said Josh was snubbed for All-Star considerations. But maybe, just maybe he didn't deserve it to begin with.

[Admin]

You see this:

I see this:

Why can't you see BOTH? Josh may be a fantastic defensive player and a solid rebounder, but he's awful on offense and I don't know about you but that seems awful bi-polar to me and I have some experience dealing with bi-polar chicks and they are not worth the headache! Time to move on from Josh!

[Brotha2ThaNite]

If the statement was for Joe then yes, there would be a problem. But I think the statement was for Josh and the team was simply fed up with his shit - which I don't see as a reflection of the entire team but just shows how much of a bad teammate Josh is on and off the court.

I'm sorry but you are wrong. Josh is a very cool person. I have heard from ppl who have been around him. I can't tell you who. You don't even have to believe me but if you just look at how Josh is.

If you notice Josh is the first person to always to go run and pull his team mate up if they hit the floor. Hell, when have you ever seen Josh hack any player of the other team? Josh cries a lot but have you notice that he gets pissed at the ref when his teammate is getting fouled hard or if the ref calls a foul on his teammate that he doesn't like?

If he felt that he gave a hard foul he always goes over and letting them know he didn't mean to give a hard foul.

I'll give you that he gets out of hand with the long jumpers and crying to refs but Josh isn't a bad teammate. Bash away but I believe my "sources" aren't lying. If Josh was a bad teammate people in the Front Office would have been known this and Danny would have traded him before the season. Bank that!

If Josh and the coach had words, that’s fine. I see nothing wrong with that. Even the greats go at it with their coaches when the team isn’t winning. Some even at their teammates… ie Kobe, Jordan, Barkley, Melo, LBJ, Wade…

[Ruckus]

Why can't you see BOTH? Josh may be a fantastic defensive player and a solid rebounder, but he's awful on offense and I don't know about you but that seems awful bi-polar to me and I have some experience dealing with bi-polar chicks and they are not worth the headache! Time to move on from Josh!

I absolutely do see both. In fact, if you go back a ways, you will find that my posts were very much pro-Josh. I made the same excuses for Josh as AHawks is now. But then I woke up. Fact is that his bonehead plays cancel out his good defensive plays at best. Let me reiterate - AT BEST. And his selfishness / attitude is inexcusable and trickles down to the entire team. Crazy how you could consider comparing him to Horford. Raw talent or not, I'll take the guy who is a 100% team player any day of the freakin' week.

[niremetal]

Bring Gay to the ATL Ferry!

Um...

[Ruckus]

I'm sorry but you are wrong. Josh is a very cool person. I have heard from ppl who have been around him. I can't tell you who. You don't even have to believe me but if you just look at how Josh is.

If you notice Josh is the first person to always to go run and pull his team mate up if they hit the floor. Hell, when have you ever seen Josh hack any player of the other team? Josh cries a lot but have you notice that he gets pissed at the ref when his teammate is getting fouled hard or if the ref calls a foul on his teammate that he doesn't like?

If he felt that he gave a hard foul he always goes over and letting them know he didn't mean to give a hard foul.

I'll give you that he gets out of hand with the long jumpers and crying to refs but Josh isn't a bad teammate. Bash away but I believe my "sources" aren't lying. If Josh was a bad teammate people in the Front Office would have been known this and Danny would have traded him before the season. Bank that!

If Josh and the coach had words, that’s fine. I see nothing wrong with that. Even the greats go at it with their coaches when the team isn’t winning. Some even at their teammates… ie Kobe, Jordan, Barkley, Melo, LBJ, Wade…

You make some good points. And I am sincere when I say that. But I still think he is a bad teammate. While making good points, you fail to mention the times he bitches at his teammates for making bad plays that he makes 10 times a game. Or not going back on defense to complain about a foul that should have been called. Or shooting crap low percentage shots when the team is a few points down and trying to get back into a game or trying or trying to hold a lead late in the game. Or thinking he is too good to be coached or play within a gameplan. This stuff wears on you as a teammate after a while.