A deal for Gortat shows Ferry's vision for this hawks team becoming visible

[Admin]

We all know he waisted away on th bench behind Dwight Howard for a few years.

Lets look at what he has done since becoming a starter since he would be starting in Atlanta:

2009-10: 13 ppg / 9.3 rpg / 1.3 blkpg / 56.3 FG% / 59.8 TS% / 5.1 win share / 18.8 per

2010-11: 15.4 ppg / 10.0 rpg / 1.5 blkpg / 55.9 FG% / 57.8 TS% / 7.6 win share / 21.2 per

2011-12: 11.6 ppg / 9.0 rpg / 1.8 blkpg / 52.3 FG% / 55.3 TS% / 3.3 win share / 16.5 per

Thanks for posting those stats! I added some more from his ESPN profile below:

It's important to note that his usage has gone down from 18.5 in 2010-11 to 15.6 this year, which would account for his point drop.

Scouting report

+ Mobile big man who is very effective rolling to basket in screen-and-roll.

+ Good rebounder. Thin frame, needs more strength. Faked off feet easily.

+ Has some post moves. Can make midrange J. Runs floor well. Blocks shots.

Analysis

Gortat had a career year as Steve Nash's roll man, massively boosting his offensive production at virtually no cost in accuracy. Scoring nearly a point every two minutes while shooting 55.5 percent with virtually no turnovers, Gortat was both productive and efficient. His turnover ratio was the third-lowest among centers, and he shot a stellar 71.5 percent in the basket area.

Perhaps most promisingly, he also showed a variety of moves away from the basket -- moves he might need this season as more of a go-to option. Gortat shot 40.6 percent on jumpers beyond 10 feet and 44.4 percent in the tricky 3-9 foot range. He has shown he can hit hook shots with either hand and could see a lot more work in straight post-ups this season.

Gortat supplements his scoring with excellent rebounding, finishing 12th among centers in defensive rebound rate. The rest of his defensive game is solid but unspectacular. He moves fairly well against the pick-and-roll and will block shots, but he also has a thin frame and leaves his feet too easily.

[drzachary]

Josh being the better player is just an article of faith, though. I'd agree that he's more versatile, but only in the sense that he attempts things he's not good at.

[macdaddy]

Thanks for posting those stats! I added some more from his ESPN profile below:

It's important to note that his usage has gone down from 18.5 in 2010-11 to 15.6 this year, which would account for his point drop.

Scouting report

+ Mobile big man who is very effective rolling to basket in screen-and-roll.

+ Good rebounder. Thin frame, needs more strength. Faked off feet easily.

+ Has some post moves. Can make midrange J. Runs floor well. Blocks shots.

Analysis

Gortat had a career year as Steve Nash's roll man, massively boosting his offensive production at virtually no cost in accuracy. Scoring nearly a point every two minutes while shooting 55.5 percent with virtually no turnovers, Gortat was both productive and efficient. His turnover ratio was the third-lowest among centers, and he shot a stellar 71.5 percent in the basket area.

Perhaps most promisingly, he also showed a variety of moves away from the basket -- moves he might need this season as more of a go-to option. Gortat shot 40.6 percent on jumpers beyond 10 feet and 44.4 percent in the tricky 3-9 foot range. He has shown he can hit hook shots with either hand and could see a lot more work in straight post-ups this season.

Gortat supplements his scoring with excellent rebounding, finishing 12th among centers in defensive rebound rate. The rest of his defensive game is solid but unspectacular. He moves fairly well against the pick-and-roll and will block shots, but he also has a thin frame and leaves his feet too easily.

This isn't making me feel better. Without Nash he's a center averaging 11/9. Maybe this is the best we can do for Josh but its hard to get excited about it. Basically they are comparable rebounders (which isn't good when comparing a 3/4 tweener to a center) and Josh is a better scorer/passer/shot blocker.

[drzachary]

Josh is NOT a better scorer than Gortat.

He scores more points, but shoots a lower percentage and requires more shots to do it. Field goal misses = points for the opponent.

Josh's value this season is all defense. The only really good offensive season he had was 2009-2010, and... surprise, surprise .. that was the season he didn't shoot 3s.

[AHawks89]

LMAO.

[Admin]

This isn't making me feel better. Without Nash he's a center averaging 11/9. Maybe this is the best we can do for Josh but its hard to get excited about it. Basically they are comparable rebounders (which isn't good when comparing a 3/4 tweener to a center) and Josh is a better scorer/passer/shot blocker.

Any player is going to put up vastly different stats with/without Nash, but you gotta look at his usage numbers. Gortat is averaging almost 11.5 points with a usage of 15.5 while Josh is averaging 16.8 points with a usage of 24.9. I wouldn't want or expect Gortat to pick up that usage difference from Josh but I expect he'd get maybe 1/4 of it while Al would get 1/2 and then the rest of the starters would divide the other half up. For comparison, look at the usage of Al where he's averaging 16 points with only a 19 usage rate. That means that both Gortat and Al are far more effective offensively so replacing Josh will improve us quite a bit.

[drzachary]

Yes, LMAO at people who think Josh is a good scorer.

Dolfan23, I think our words might be falling on deaf ears. For so many people, YAY POINTS and YAY DUNKS means 'good scorer.'

Any player is going to put up vastly different stats with/without Nash, but you gotta look at his usage numbers. Gortat is averaging almost 11.5 points with a usage of 15.5 while Josh is averaging 16.8 points with a usage of 24.9. I wouldn't want or expect Gortat to pick up that usage difference from Josh but I expect he'd get maybe 1/4 of it while Al would get 1/2 and then the rest of the starters would divide the other half up. For comparison, look at the usage of Al where he's averaging 16 points with only a 19 usage rate. That means that both Gortat and Al are far more effective offensively so replacing Josh will improve us quite a bit.

[Admin]

Yes, LMAO at people who think Josh is a good scorer.

Dolfan23, I think our words might be falling on deaf ears. For so many people, YAY POINTS and YAY DUNKS means 'good scorer.'

Yes sir I certainly believe that to be the case. Sad but that doesn't surprise me seeing how the majority of "fans" in Atlanta only come out for the big names rather than to support good play.

[drzachary]

To put it in perspective:

Most people would agree that it would be bad if one of our players simply brought the ball up court and handed it to a player on the opposing team. That is what essentially happens when you take a lot of shots, miss a terrifyingly bad amount of them, turn the ball over and fail to convert free throws: because the other team is probably not going to be as inefficient with their possessions.

Edited February 1, 2013 by drzachary

[wolvetigers]

Thanks for posting those stats! I added some more from his ESPN profile below:

It's important to note that his usage has gone down from 18.5 in 2010-11 to 15.6 this year, which would account for his point drop.

Scouting report

+ Mobile big man who is very effective rolling to basket in screen-and-roll.

+ Good rebounder. Thin frame, needs more strength. Faked off feet easily.

+ Has some post moves. Can make midrange J. Runs floor well. Blocks shots.

Analysis

Gortat had a career year as Steve Nash's roll man, massively boosting his offensive production at virtually no cost in accuracy. Scoring nearly a point every two minutes while shooting 55.5 percent with virtually no turnovers, Gortat was both productive and efficient. His turnover ratio was the third-lowest among centers, and he shot a stellar 71.5 percent in the basket area.

Perhaps most promisingly, he also showed a variety of moves away from the basket -- moves he might need this season as more of a go-to option. Gortat shot 40.6 percent on jumpers beyond 10 feet and 44.4 percent in the tricky 3-9 foot range. He has shown he can hit hook shots with either hand and could see a lot more work in straight post-ups this season.

Gortat supplements his scoring with excellent rebounding, finishing 12th among centers in defensive rebound rate. The rest of his defensive game is solid but unspectacular. He moves fairly well against the pick-and-roll and will block shots, but he also has a thin frame and leaves his feet too easily.

Sure if you have your mind set on being a 5th or 6th seed in the playoffs forever then sure go for gortat...but if you are trying to build a championship team then you start with a Younger and Better Center say Greg Monroe, and Draft Picks to sure up SF, PG spots on our Roster...It all depends on what you want to build GORTAT IS NOT THE Answer...trading Josh for a slightly above average center is not the answer..

Edited February 1, 2013 by wolvetigers

[Admin]

Sure if you have your mind set on being a 5th or 6th seed in the playoffs forever then sure go for gortat...but if you are trying to build a championship team then you start with a Younger and Better Center say Greg Monroe, and Draft Picks to sure up SF, PG spots on our Roster...It all depends on what you want to build GORTAT IS NOT THE Answer...trading Josh for a slightly above average center is not the answer..

You guys keep on harping on Monroe like he's actually available. Hey I'd LOVE to have Monroe but it's NOT happening as Detroit is not even remotely rumored to be looking to trade him. So I wonder what playoff spot we wouldn't come close to getting when we see Josh walk or we drastically overpay him and can't field a complete team around him and get to live with his pathetic offense for the next 5 years and pray for someone to take his contract off of our hands.

[Alex]

Ferry's vision is clear if he trades Smith and gets Gortat in return. Mediocrity.

[Admin]

Ferry's vision is clear if he trades Smith and gets Gortat in return. Mediocrity.

Why do y'all keep saying it's JUST Gortat? It's...

Gortat

Dudley

1-2 1st round picks

The 5-7 million or so we save by having Gortat instead of Josh on his new contract. Keep in mind we can get a player like Korver or Lou for that amount.

Or we could have Josh.

I know which I'd prefer for the success of the Hawks in the future.

[frosgrim]

Exactly Dol

This rumor is for a lot of pieces. 2 picks and two players is a very good return for Smith. We aren't getting a superstar for Smith- period. The whole Monroe idea is pie in the sky, heck its worse than the Dwight dream.

Ferry has also started this rebuild is a several year process. We're in the assest asssessment phase, and we are about to enter into the acquisition phase.

I for one support the deal of Gortot, Johnson or Dudley, and picks.

[Admin]

Exactly Dol

This rumor is for a lot of pieces. 2 picks and two players is a very good return for Smith. We aren't getting a superstar for Smith- period. The whole Monroe idea is pie in the sky, heck its worse than the Dwight dream.

Ferry has also started this rebuild is a several year process. We're in the assest asssessment phase, and we are about to enter into the acquisition phase.

I for one support the deal of Gortot, Johnson or Dudley, and picks.

I see that logic is not lost on you Frosgrim!

[PSSSHHHRRR87]

I just hate the idea of 'rebuilding'. It's too much time to go through a rebuild and if we dump Josh for Gortat+whatever, that's what it feels like we are doing. You rebuild if you are in Phoenix's shoes where Nash moved on and you have nothing left. You rebuild if you are the Lakers, your superstar is getting ready to retire, and what you are doing right now isn't working. You don't rebuild when you have a dub-dub guy in Horford, a very promising PG in Teague, and all of the cap space that we will have. The Hawks are on the up-n-up, not on the downswing like the Lakers. I'm all for a reload, but not a rebuild which is why I despise this trade. Sure, maybe the Suns end up with a top draft pick in 2013 that would become ours giving us three first rounders, but there is still no guarantee those picks will pan out. Or maybe we end up with Shabazz, Len, or Zeller. I'm for trading Smith if he has no intentions of staying, but I'd like to get at least one veteran impact player such as a Mayo or whoever. Gor-not is a center that will not be remembered in a Hawks uni. He'd give us the ability to move Horford to 4, but Zaza can do that too. I'd take Varejao for Smith (Kyrie + Waiters + Smith and then lure Dwight to LBJ's old stomping grounds might be good). We still have Horford, Lou, Jenkins, and probably Teague, but getting a guy like Mayo or Varejao keeps the train rolling instead of having to stop at the station for a few seasons. Even Shabazz would need a season or two to learn. Reload, never rebuild.

[macdaddy]

Why do y'all keep saying it's JUST Gortat? It's...

Gortat

Dudley

1-2 1st round picks

The 5-7 million or so we save by having Gortat instead of Josh on his new contract. Keep in mind we can get a player like Korver or Lou for that amount.

Or we could have Josh.

I know which I'd prefer for the success of the Hawks in the future.

Says who? its all rumor and probably false rumor at that but where does any say they will give us gortat/dudley/and 2 1sts?

[drzachary]

I think the Suns would say no to Smith-Gortat straight up, so it's a moot point, really.

[Watchman]

I just hate the idea of 'rebuilding'. It's too much time to go through a rebuild and if we dump Josh for Gortat+whatever, that's what it feels like we are doing. You rebuild if you are in Phoenix's shoes where Nash moved on and you have nothing left. You rebuild if you are the Lakers, your superstar is getting ready to retire, and what you are doing right now isn't working. You don't rebuild when you have a dub-dub guy in Horford, a very promising PG in Teague, and all of the cap space that we will have. The Hawks are on the up-n-up, not on the downswing like the Lakers. I'm all for a reload, but not a rebuild which is why I despise this trade. Sure, maybe the Suns end up with a top draft pick in 2013 that would become ours giving us three first rounders, but there is still no guarantee those picks will pan out. Or maybe we end up with Shabazz, Len, or Zeller. I'm for trading Smith if he has no intentions of staying, but I'd like to get at least one veteran impact player such as a Mayo or whoever. Gor-not is a center that will not be remembered in a Hawks uni. He'd give us the ability to move Horford to 4, but Zaza can do that too. I'd take Varejao for Smith (Kyrie + Waiters + Smith and then lure Dwight to LBJ's old stomping grounds might be good). We still have Horford, Lou, Jenkins, and probably Teague, but getting a guy like Mayo or Varejao keeps the train rolling instead of having to stop at the station for a few seasons. Even Shabazz would need a season or two to learn. Reload, never rebuild.

Varejao is always injured, and cannot be relied upon. We know he is out for the rest of this season. I don't remember exactly what the problem was (seems like it was heart related, or something like that), but his career may not extend a whole lot longer.

[Admin]

Says who? its all rumor and probably false rumor at that but where does any say they will give us gortat/dudley/and 2 1sts?

There's nothing concrete about what the offer would be. The point is that those of us that are happy with this potential trade are using these players / picks as the basis for us being happy with it. That's all we can go by at this point and it's not unreasonable to think those are the pieces or close to it.