Mavs & Suns reportedly going hard after Smoove

[Jody23]

LOL . . he accepted a crap deal for Joe Johnson. All we got out of that deal is "hope and flexibility". That deal means nothing if we can't use that money to get an elite player in the next 2 years.

Different player, different objective. Joe and his contract were not wanted going forward and so Ferry took expiring deals to get out of his deal. With Josh, he'll be looking for REAL value IF he moves him which may not be likely.

[tonegully]

Mayo, VC, and Marion. ARE U CRAZY? Who wants those over the hill players. Smh at HS and these trade ideas

[yungsta]

Mayo, VC, and Marion. ARE U CRAZY? Who wants those over the hill players. Smh at HS and these trade ideas

hawsquawk has some of the most outlandish and retarded trades I seen ever on any board period. I should really just start ignoring some of them im not sure if they are trolling or not.

[Brotha2ThaNite]

Not interested in anything that the those two teams have to offer. Not even Dirk. O.J Mayo is a considerable value player with a PER of 17.14 and being paid $4.0 mil, but he is a FA this offseason and that Hawks could sign him outright for $6.5 mil/yr. I'd rather be greedy and have chance to get everyone.

C - DH12 ($18 mil/yr)

PF - Horf ($12 mil/yr)

SF - Josh ($14.0 mil/yr)

SG - Mayo ($6.5 mil/yr)

PG - Teague ($6.5 mil/yr)

That's a damn good starting unit to make a title run with. $57 mil invested in the starters with $7 mil left before tax ($7 mil includes Lou and JJ12 taken out of the $13 mil left). Retain Korver or Zaza with the MLE (Up to $5.15 mil for up to 4 years), resign Ivan ($1.5 mil/yr), pick up Scott's option ($750,000), and fill the rest with draft picks ($3.5 mil/yr). A$G ponies up small amount of tax money. Maybe will get a little lucky and Josh and Dwight will take less to make it work easier... The X factor is Teague willing to put off getting paid like Holiday and I wonder how much Morrow being gone would affect DH12. For our draft picks, I'd have it as a SF, 3rd PG, 3rd C, and a PF.

Total investment:

$57 mil for starters

$18 mil for bench

$75 mil for the team, lux tax starts at $70.4 mil, so in essence Lou is our tax guy.

F*ck trading anybody, be greedy and get everybody. Worse to worse, we end up with egg on our faces, but STILL have a ton of cap space for this and future offseasons.

THIS! :-)

[Cwell]

Not interested in anything that the those two teams have to offer. Not even Dirk. O.J Mayo is a considerable value player with a PER of 17.14 and being paid $4.0 mil, but he is a FA this offseason and that Hawks could sign him outright for $6.5 mil/yr. I'd rather be greedy and have chance to get everyone.

C - DH12 ($18 mil/yr)

PF - Horf ($12 mil/yr)

SF - Josh ($14.0 mil/yr)

SG - Mayo ($6.5 mil/yr)

PG - Teague ($6.5 mil/yr)

That's a damn good starting unit to make a title run with. $57 mil invested in the starters with $7 mil left before tax ($7 mil includes Lou and JJ12 taken out of the $13 mil left). Retain Korver or Zaza with the MLE (Up to $5.15 mil for up to 4 years), resign Ivan ($1.5 mil/yr), pick up Scott's option ($750,000), and fill the rest with draft picks ($3.5 mil/yr). A$G ponies up small amount of tax money. Maybe will get a little lucky and Josh and Dwight will take less to make it work easier... The X factor is Teague willing to put off getting paid like Holiday and I wonder how much Morrow being gone would affect DH12. For our draft picks, I'd have it as a SF, 3rd PG, 3rd C, and a PF.

Total investment:

$57 mil for starters

$18 mil for bench

$75 mil for the team, lux tax starts at $70.4 mil, so in essence Lou is our tax guy.

F*ck trading anybody, be greedy and get everybody. Worse to worse, we end up with egg on our faces, but STILL have a ton of cap space for this and future offseasons.

lol

[TheFuzz]

Smith for Mayo straight up wouldn't even be a bad deal. Josh sucks.

Mayo is really not that good. He's not a whole lot better than Lou Will.

A Smith deal that doesn't send a star back to us should give us some cheap young talent. Don't trade him just for the heck of it.

[Ruckus]

Mayo, VC, and Marion. ARE U CRAZY? Who wants those over the hill players. Smh at HS and these trade ideas hawsquawk has some of the most outlandish and retarded trades I seen ever on any board period. I should really just start ignoring some of them im not sure if they are trolling or not.

Exactly how I feel about you Josh lovers. All these seasons and you still want this idiot on our team for 14 mill a season? And then you go around bashing trade ideas that include other much cheaper players with actual brains and easily defined skill sets that most importantly do not kill our cap. Bottom line is nobody is offering us anything good because Josh isn't worth anything good. Laughing at all those expecting a quality starting center or other flagship talent for Josh.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Mayo is really not that good. He's not a whole lot better than Lou Will.

A Smith deal that doesn't send a star back to us should give us some cheap young talent. Don't trade him just for the heck of it.

Mayo's 2012 - 13 numbers

18 ppg

3.8 rebs

4.5 asst

1.3 stls

2.8 to's

47% FG

43% 3FG

85% FT

58.5% TS%

He can create his own shot

He can pass pretty good for a 2 guard

His defense is suspect, but not a complete liability

He's been the 4th best SG in the NBA this year behind Harden, Kobe, and Wade.

And he's only 25 YEARS OLD.

LOL @ not that good. Heck, he'd instantly become the 2nd best player on the Hawks.

Tell me what "star" we're going to get that is not only better than Mayo now, but can be in the next 2 - 3 years? You can obtain Mayo, and still have enough cap space to go after a pipe dream player like Chris Paul or Dwight Howard. But if you don't get him, you can at least target Mayo and lock him up for the next 4 years, while he's in his prime.

Some of you really need to start watching more of the league.

http-~~-//www.youtube.com/watch?v=vV6DCFAfuDo

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Exactly how I feel about you Josh lovers. All these seasons and you still want this idiot on our team for 14 mill a season? And then you go around bashing trade ideas that include other much cheaper players with actual brains and easily defined skill sets that most importantly do not kill our cap. Bottom line is nobody is offering us anything good because Josh isn't worth anything good. Laughing at all those expecting a quality starting center or other flagship talent for Josh.

They would be the same people back in October, who would've been totally against trading for James Harden, if the Hawks had a chance to get him. Some of them simply do not watch enough of the league.

Put OJ and Marion on this team right now, and the Hawks would make a run at a top 4 seed. And once the playoff came around, all bets would be off with this team. Re-sign Josh, and we know what our destiny would be. And that's not a total indictment on Josh. It's just that as long as he's on this team, the Hawks will continue to be "out of balance" offensively.

Don;t look now, but the Celtics ( who were left for dead 2 weeks ago when they left Atlanta ) are now breathing right down our necks.

I think it's fitting that we play the Mavs tomorrow night. We'll see if people will change their tune about Mayo and Marion, or if they will be validated in their belief to be against those 2 players.

[Guest]

Northcyde I know ur not that joker guy who got kicked off about 6 months ago but ur pushin a lotta Mayo like he did ..lol..Did u read a lot of that guy's posts? He had like 5 mayo superstar posts a day...lol

[TheFuzz]

Mayo's 2012 - 13 numbers

18 ppg

3.8 rebs

4.5 asst

1.3 stls

2.8 to's

47% FG

43% 3FG

85% FT

58.5% TS%

He can create his own shot

He can pass pretty good for a 2 guard

His defense is suspect, but not a complete liability

He's been the 4th best SG in the NBA this year behind Harden, Kobe, and Wade.

And he's only 25 YEARS OLD.

LOL @ not that good. Heck, he'd instantly become the 2nd best player on the Hawks.

Tell me what "star" we're going to get that is not only better than Mayo now, but can be in the next 2 - 3 years? You can obtain Mayo, and still have enough cap space to go after a pipe dream player like Chris Paul or Dwight Howard. But if you don't get him, you can at least target Mayo and lock him up for the next 4 years, while he's in his prime.

Some of you really need to start watching more of the league.

http-~~-//www.youtube.com/watch?v=vV6DCFAfuDo

I've watched plenty of Mayo. I'm not impressed. He shoots A LOT of jump shots. I'm not opposed to having him but he's about to be just as overpaid as Josh and Josh is a better player. In addition, his percentages are cooling off a lot. He started the year on an insane 3point shooting tear. He was shooting over 50% from 3 for a month or two and that game was during that stretch.

Having said all of that, I'd rather keep Josh and sign OJ than trade Josh for OJ. I'd like some players on rookie deals if we're trading Josh.

Edit: And I also don't mind Marion. He's a good role-player.

Edited February 11, 2013 by TheFuzz

[Ruckus]

I think more of you need to look at numbers as northcyde points out. It's clear that biases become involved way too often.

[MaceCase]

I think more of you need to look at numbers as northcyde points out. It's clear that biases become involved way too often.

Er.....it's inventing an equally delusional bias by trying to present a trade like this as if it will push the team over the top for the season while taking zero account the effect it will have on the future.

[Cwell]

Mayo is really not that good. He's not a whole lot better than Lou Will.

A Smith deal that doesn't send a star back to us should give us some cheap young talent. Don't trade him just for the heck of it.

lol really dude? Mayo is much better than Lou

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Er.....it's inventing an equally delusional bias by trying to present a trade like this as if it will push the team over the top for the season while taking zero account the effect it will have on the future.

Effect on the future

- No Josh Smith signed to a MAX contract

- OJ Mayo possibly signed for up to 4 years . . during his prime

- Al Horford getting a chance to play PF almost full time . . during his prime

- Teague having complete control of the team ( if he's re-signed ) . . during his prime

- Marion acting as a "stop gap" SF for just 1.5 years, then having his contract off the books in 2014 ( flexibility )

Of course the move wouldn't move us into championship level. But it would no doubt keep us at playoff level, while having more flexibility in the future.

[PSSSHHHRRR87]

Another thing to add to the Lou vs. Mayo conversation, Mayo also has a better mid-range jumper and is also 3" taller and 35 lbs heavier. The exact type of SG we need to start for us. If Ferry signs Hold the Mayo, you can count on Supes getting a few new IP addresses and will be back to kill some folks with a few ITYS threads. lolSent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[MaceCase]

Effect on the future

- No Josh Smith signed to a MAX contract

Er, just don't sign him to a max contract. A function that can happen without the trade.

- OJ Mayo possibly signed for up to 4 years . . during his prime

Er, the Hawks can do that regardless. Trading for him doesn't offer any advantage because he has not accrued years for Birds rights so again, another function that can happen without the trade.

- Al Horford getting a chance to play PF almost full time . . during his prime

Er, who is the center the Hawks are getting from Dallas again? Marion is a less effective defender and offensive player from the SF position (using 82games, of course) than Josh so how is picking him up allowing the Hawks to do something that they can't already do? Yet another function that can happen without the trade.

- Teague having complete control of the team ( if he's re-signed ) . . during his prime

Er, something else that is not at all contingent on a trade so why is it being mentioned? If he's good enough to completely control a team then he'd completely control either now or eventually regardless unless he's scared of big bad Josh.....in which case he hasn't earned that badge.

- Marion acting as a "stop gap" SF for just 1.5 years, then having his contract off the books in 2014 ( flexibility )

What are Marion's thoughts about being a "stopgap"?

Marion didn't have an angry tone when he delivered this message. Rather, he was matter-of-fact, insisting he won't report to a team that doesn't have a chance to contend for a title.

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nba-ball-dont-lie/shawn-marion-not-accept-trade-bad-team-001040719--nba.html

Yea, so worst case without having a pipeline to the premier free agents he demands a buyout or trade after the season, best case he uses his ETO.....effectively trading Josh for two free agents. Well, I guess that's yet another great contingent of the trade that wouldn't be available otherwise..../sarcasm.

Of course the move wouldn't move us into championship level. But it would no doubt keep us at playoff level, while having more flexibility in the future.

The team is currently playoff level (Marion, Mayo and the Mavs are not) and has the same if not greater flexibility in the future. Bravo at a great argument on a useless trade, I guess the illusion of something beats the reality of nothing.

[Ruckus]

So Mace - since you seem to have all the answers... What would you do now and through this off-season??

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Er, just don't sign him to a max contract. A function that can happen without the trade.

Josh has said that he thinks he's worth the MAX. Would Josh feel "insulted" if he received less than a MAX offer from the Hawks. Would a 5 - 75 mill deal from the Hawks be a "slap in the face" to Josh? He'd make less money in those first 4 years in ATL, than he would somewhere else, but he'd make it up in the final year.

Er, the Hawks can do that regardless. Trading for him doesn't offer any advantage because he has not accrued years for Birds rights so again, another function that can happen without the trade.

The team that has Mayo now, definitely has the advantage to re-sign him, even without the Bird Rights. Mayo may be comfortable in the city ( or on the team ) he's currently playing on. Mayo coming to a playoff level team may entice he and Marion to stick around for a while. It would be totally different if we were out of the playoff hunt.

Also remember . . these are the Hawks. Despite Danny Ferry making big moves last summer with the roster shakeup, the fact remains that big time free agents have traditionally NOT come to play for the Hawks. We'll see if Ferry changes that this summer.

Er, who is the center the Hawks are getting from Dallas again? Marion is a less effective defender and offensive player from the SF position (using 82games, of course) than Josh so how is picking him up allowing the Hawks to do something that they can't already do? Yet another function that can happen without the trade.

"Cap Space" is the new center. Remember, that's why we have the cap space . . . to add high quality free agents to the squad. Horford replaces Josh at PF, not SF and replaces just about all of his production. Marion strengthens the SF position, whether he starts or comes off the bench. He's also a guy you can play in a smallish lineup at PF. And "Cap Space" hopefully plays at a high enough level to have us not miss Josh one bit on the frontline.

Funny how you don't mention how getting rid of a player with a 94 offensive rating, and replacing him with a player with a 109 offensive rating, might help the offense. No more untimely turnovers and 3 pointers. No more lack of offensive rebounding. No more of the PF acting like the PG, being all in the video . . all on the record . . . dancing.

Er, something else that is not at all contingent on a trade so why is it being mentioned? If he's good enough to completely control a team then he'd completely control either now or eventually regardless unless he's scared of big bad Josh.....in which case he hasn't earned that badge.

Teague can do very little to control the team, if the PF in question gets a rebound and charges up the court himself, with the PG standing right beside him. Eliminate that element from the team, and Teague gets more control over the offense by default.

What are Marion's thoughts about being a "stopgap"?

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nba-ball-dont-lie/shawn-marion-not-accept-trade-bad-team-001040719--nba.html

Yea, so worst case without having a pipeline to the premier free agents he demands a buyout or trade after the season, best case he uses his ETO.....effectively trading Josh for two free agents. Well, I guess that's yet another great contingent of the trade that wouldn't be available otherwise..../sarcasm.

Whew . . . good thing we're not a "bad team" . . just a struggling one, with the erratic play of the PF being one of the reasons why we're struggling lately. So Shawn shouldn't have much of an issue staying in ATL. He and Mayo could get us right back on track.

But if the worst case scenario is trading Josh for 2 free agents, that's better than being locked into Josh for 5 years at the Max . . or close to the Max . . when you know that he's not going to change as a player. And if he's not going to change as a player, we need to bring in people who can play the right way to help the team.

The team is currently playoff level (Marion, Mayo and the Mavs are not) and has the same if not greater flexibility in the future. Bravo at a great argument on a useless trade, I guess the illusion of something beats the reality of nothing.

If Marion and Mayo are all of a sudden thrown on a playoff team, instead of a team that virtually has no shot of making the playoffs out West, maybe . . just maybe . . they might like it here and want to stay a few years. 2 quality players for the same price as a MAXED out Josh Smith, is a good deal in my opinion.

Hawks are 8 - 13 in our last 21 games, with Boston and Milwaukee breathing down our necks for our 6th seed. Schedule will continue to be tougher from here on out.

The trade is useless only to the lovers of Smith who don't want to see him go anywhere, despite the way he plays. The Joe Johnson era is over. But the same problems with this team persists. That means it's time to end the era of the team's 2nd most influential player, add a different mix of players, and see if things can change around here.

[MaceCase]

So Mace - since you seem to have all the answers... What would you do now and through this off-season??

The options have always been very simple:

A) Move Josh for something worthwhile that will at least offer the potential of helping the team now and into the future. (i.e. picks, prospects)

B) Work at retaining him at a reasonable price. (sub-max)

C) Have him walk and pursue other options.

You do not compromise those options just for the sake of trading and you do not dress up the fact that you want value for him but are trading him for two free agents of which, I'd imagine, you'd also struggle to find value for when they decide they might like to walk.