Thinking about Teague, Horf, and D-12.

[WakaFlocka]

Why people on this board are still obsessed over Howard I'll never understand. First off, Dwight is NOT coming here. Second, why would you even want him at this point?

[JTB]

One thing about this thread I have been saying this for a month now. Either way it goes cp3 and d12 are going to be around 30 or 31 or turning 30 or 31 when their teams get some decent cap or decide to rebuild!Why not team up together now?! They are both 27. I will never understand why they will make decisions to stay with their current team and not play together when they have the opportunity.And they can play with many teams that have cap but their best situation just happens to be with Atlanta.Say the cap is 58:Pg cp3- 16mSg-Lou 5mSf-?Pf-horford 12mC-D12 16mThat's 49m with 9m left to spendWe will sign two rookies and probably resign some bums.HOWEVER most of you don't believe cp3 and d12 will take a cheaper contract and I do! Lebron, wade, and Bosh did it....taking 14m. It's all about the player wanting to really want to win a championship.Ferry should be able to get to Howard and Paul and make notice that they could really be something special like the heat if they are willing to take a pay cut

[JTB]

And I'm sorry but let me add this:Cp3 situation is this: He doesn't even have the talent on his team to compete with the best of the west spurs and okc. I'm even betting that they can't beat the nuggets in a series or will atleast struggle beating them Howard situation is this:His team is too damn old! Unlike cp3 you don't even know who you will be playing with in the future. He's really going to wait for LA to rebuild around him when pau and Kobe decide to retire! In fact if they decide to rebuild now he will be 29 when they start and 30 over the course if that season.I'm sorry for the bitc**** but I will NEVER understand why they don't even consider playing together!The heat ain't going no where! Don't wait to get old to try challenge them then.

[yungsta]

I sure they would like to team up but only if they can do it in NY or LA.

[JTB]

I sure they would like to team up but only if they can do it in NY or LA.

Well man it shouldn't matter what team it is if that team has the cap space to make it happen.

[Eddielives]

I don't see why anyone wants to pay Dwight 120 million for him to basically be a 20 point 12-15 rebound guy who can't make free throws. Factor in his immaturity, back surgery and declining play according to popular opinion(slowly people are starting to talk) and you have a mistake in the making. I just don't see Dwight ever being happy and playing consistently as good as he did pre-surgery.

[Buzzard]

Well man it shouldn't matter what team it is if that team has the cap space to make it happen.

Atlanta is a big city market, but in the east you compete with markets in NY, Chicago, Boston, and the force that is Bron and Wade. Out west its LA and everyone else market wise.

I get what you are saying about CP3 and D12 playing together. Bet Cuban is drooling over a way to make it happen as well. Dallas is the 4th largest metro area in the U.S. We are actually bigger than Boston; but Boston being so near the other major markets makes them more attractive I think.

[AHF]

I think Iggy still holds a lot of value because of his play on both ends of the floor. He is like a cross between Artest but a much better offensive player and Pierce but better defensively. 4 years with a TO. That is a big valuable expiring contract a short way down the road; not to mention, teams like the Lakers have been after him for years. I think he has good trade value and career way past 30.

With the way Cuban grabs and pays players would not surprise me one bit if he signs Iggy and a center then calls it a day. Which btw, is what I think we should do.

I hear you. I just think the gap between Iggy and PP offensively is huuuuuuge and that Iggy is entering the decline part of his career curve which doesn't make him a good candidate for a team like the Hawks, IMO.

[Nicholasp27]

Why people on this board are still obsessed over Howard I'll never understand. First off, Dwight is NOT coming here. Second, why would you even want him at this point?

He is a true dominant superstarThis season he was recovering from surgery, on the wrong team for his play and wrong coach for his playHe still lead in rebounds, one of our weakest areas

[Nicholasp27]

We really are a perfect situation for themForm a big 3 with horfordResign korver for themLou Williams 6th man...Jenkins another sharp shooterThey can pick their coachThey will be huge in Atlanta...we love the rare superstars that we getNeither is winning in la and dirk is old in DallasHorf is a great fit with cp3 and d12They could prolly even talk to iggy about joiningSuch a great defensive team them and can score

Edited April 27, 2013 by Nicholasp27

[Buzzard]

We really are a perfect situation for themForm a big 3 with horfordResign korver for themLou Williams 6th man...Jenkins another sharp shooterThey can pick their coachThey will be huge in Atlanta...we love the rare superstars that we getNeither is winning in la and dirk is old in DallasHorf is a great fit with cp3 and d12They could prolly even talk to iggy about joiningSuch a great defensive team them and can score

D12, Horf, Iggy, CP3, along with Williams,Teague, Korver. Jenkins, and our two rookie picks. That is a dream come true. Hell resign Josh and become the East Coast version of the Lakers lol

Edited April 27, 2013 by Buzzard

[Wretch]

We are a perfect fit... I just can't wrap my head around it happening. North, we agree on a lot of stuff...but I don't think where we are is better than being a bottom feeder. For a team like Milwaukee, Golden State or Houston...being a top 10-15 team is a big deal. It's a sign of progress for those teams.

That was us like...5-6 years ago. For us to be in this position right now isn't a failure, but it really doesn't hold any value either. To me, it's actually worse than being at the bottom. Those guys, while they're losing, at least they are digging for the talent that's going to take them from the bottom, to the playoffs, and eventually to the top. I'd much rather be doing that, then trying to "win without losing" every year. I mean...do we really have to see another 1st/2nd round loss, outplayed and over-matched...for us to finally "get it."

If we're adding some top teir talent (CP3, Howard) that changes everything. But if we're not, we have to get into rebuild/talent acquisition mode and start building a team for the future. Patch this team up with more B-list guys and we're looking at a repeat of our ceiling...oh, I dunno...the last 30 something years?

[Buzzard]

We are a perfect fit... I just can't wrap my head around it happening. North, we agree on a lot of stuff...but I don't think where we are is better than being a bottom feeder. For a team like Milwaukee, Golden State or Houston...being a top 10-15 team is a big deal. It's a sign of progress for those teams.

That was us like...5-6 years ago. For us to be in this position right now isn't a failure, but it really doesn't hold any value either. To me, it's actually worse than being at the bottom. Those guys, while they're losing, at least they are digging for the talent that's going to take them from the bottom, to the playoffs, and eventually to the top. I'd much rather be doing that, then trying to "win without losing" every year. I mean...do we really have to see another 1st/2nd round loss, outplayed and over-matched...for us to finally "get it."

If we're adding some top teir talent (CP3, Howard) that changes everything. But if we're not, we have to get into rebuild/talent acquisition mode and start building a team for the future. Patch this team up with more B-list guys and we're looking at a repeat of our ceiling...oh, I dunno...the last 30 something years?

I am with you 100%. This is why Ferry put us in a new position this season. We have multiple 1st round picks and expiring contracts/cap. I do not think he will lose a lot of sleep over Josh walking and us clearing the 12 to 14 cap hold. And by that I mean, if it comes down to us taking on medicore talent vs letting Josh walk, Ferry would prefer he walk. Clearing the cap is more important than just filling it up with another teams garbage.

Horford, Teague, Jenkins have some upside left but not much. I think Josh has hit his stride and already had his best season, last year.. Unless we get an infusion of talent, this is as good as it gets and this ain't good enough. For us fans and I hope Ferry as well.

Edited April 27, 2013 by Buzzard

[Wretch]

I am with you 100%. This is why Ferry put us in a new position this season. We have multiple 1st round picks and expiring contracts/cap. I do not think he will lose a lot of sleep over Josh walking and us clearing the 12 to 14 cap hold. And by that I mean, if it comes down to us taking on medicore talent vs letting Josh walk, Ferry would prefer he walk. Clearing the cap is more important than just filling it up with another teams garbage.

Horford, Teague, Jenkins have some upside left but not much. I think Josh has hit his stride and already had his best season, last year.. Unless we get an infusion of talent, this is as good as it gets and this ain't good enough. For us fans and I hope Ferry as well.

I know Danny Ferry is the one "feel good" thing around here this season and people have taken to calling him a savior, but I want to revisit something I was saying in the offseason. First off, I applaud the job he's done as far as clearing cap space. Also, he got me very excited when he started talking about changing the culture and building a championship quality franchise from the ground up.

But then he had me raising an eyebrow with how he followed that up...

I thought for sure that he'd follow the JJ & Marvin deals with a move of either Horf/Smoove for young(er) talent or picks (I was thinking Josh Smith). That didn't happen. Then he began adding quality veteran talent - key word here being "quality." I thought we were building for the future. I thought of Danny Ferry as an outsider looking in. I thought that he, coming from a championship organization, talking about changing the culture....I thought that he understood that patching up an average team with average talent yields average results.

I thought the plan was to rebuild - but when I saw him bring in those veterans, I was a confused. We were positioning ourselves to win games under the guise of "evaluating" the team. I'm just a nobody, armchair GM...but after we dealt Joe, the ceiling of this squad was pretty damn obvious to me. You don't replace a guy like that with journeymen and expect to be significantly better.

Now here we are.

What did we win? A few more games on the season. How does it feel? Annoying to watch Josh pretend to be the kind of scorer we need. Crappy to be down 0-2 and very little hope of turning it around - let alone advance beyond the 2nd round.

I have seen this same thing happen year after year without us EVER adding a the kind of talent capable of energizing the fanbase. Keeping the course, we would continue to toss in average role players, and maybe a B-list Joe Johnson kind guy, until slowly but surely we're right up against the cap and unable to add a top tier talent. We cap out at 50 or so wins, hit the 2nd round ceiling, then rinse and repeat...

I would rather not repeat this cycle for another 2-3 seasons and THEN realize that we have to rebuild.

Edited April 27, 2013 by Wretch

[Buzzard]

Now here we are.

What did we win? A few more games on the season. How does it feel? Annoying to watch Josh pretend to be the kind of scorer we need. Crappy to be down 0-2 and very little hope of turning it around - let alone advance beyond the 2nd round.

I have seen this same thing happen year after year without us EVER adding a the kind of talent capable of energizing the fanbase. Keeping the course, we would continue to toss in average role players, and maybe a B-list Joe Johnson kind guy, until slowly but surely we're right up against the cap and unable to add a top tier talent. We cap out at 50 or so wins, hit the 2nd round ceiling, then rinse and repeat...

I would rather not repeat this cycle for another 2-3 seasons and THEN realize that we have to rebuild.

I think with the splash he made early with the big trades and shedding cap, you expected to much to soon. 1st off Josh was/still is a expiring. We will not get equal value for vs him being locked up for two or three years. Furthermore, he is not D12, so taking a risk to trade ( give up assets ) for him, then lose him makes a lot less sense for teams. At least a team with good talent ( LA, Houston etc ) could justify a run at a championship with Howard. Josh will not take anyone to the promise land.

One year at a time. Last off season, we saw what I think is progress. This season, I expect more of the same.

[Wretch]

I think with the splash he made early with the big trades and shedding cap, you expected to much to soon. 1st off Josh was/still is a expiring. We will not get equal value for vs him being locked up for two or three years. Furthermore, he is not D12, so taking a risk to trade ( give up assets ) for him, then lose him makes a lot less sense for teams. At least a team with good talent ( LA, Houston etc ) could justify a run at a championship with Howard. Josh will not take anyone to the promise land.

One year at a time. Last off season, we saw what I think is progress. This season, I expect more of the same.

To be honest, I wasn't expecting anything. Some people expected to keep seeing home runs. I wanted to see this thing moving in the right direction. If you are a 2nd round team, leaning on a B-list kind of scorer like JJ...and you replace him with a POOR MAN'S JJ, what exactly are you hoping to accomplish? There's just no point to it.

What we would have gotten for Josh is irrelevant to me. What did we gain by keeping him all season? He certainly helped us win some games...in a season where our biggest wins are going to mean what exactly? The right to keep playing for a couple of extra games in the 1st round? If you want my honest opinion, I wanted to deal Josh Smith two seasons ago. Getting talent/picks in exchange for him last offseason would have been ideal, but gutting this team and leaving Horf/Teague as the FOCUS of our offense would have been the real benefit.

I'm not impatient. Not at all. Nor do I expect things to happen overnight. But I'm pretty sure of what the end result of patching up a team like this is. Our playoff record over the past 20+ years speaks for itself. Gutting this team and heading to the lottery doesn't guarantee us a star in 3 seasons anymore than patching up this team guarantees a 1st/2nd round loss. But stepping back and looking at the bigger picture, sputtering around the middle of the pack does us no good.

Like I said earlier, it's a great place if your a young and upcoming team. It's not a great place to be if you were that young and upcoming team 6 years ago. At this stage, after dealing our leading scorer, I'd rather be stockpiling assets - to make us better or to use in trades. I'd rather rebuild with a couple of solid pieces like Horford and Teague (I would have started that after the Chicago series).

The first set of moves DF made put us on the path to rebuild. That's the course we should have kept - full speed.

[yungsta]

I think jbrick wasnt traded during the offseason cause ferry at that time believed he could recruit dwight. At the time Dwight was still in orlando and we were emerging as a candidate to have to him traded here.

Now that it seems unlikely You saw how he was trying to trade him during the trade deadline but he value was next to zero. So it was either keep him or take on garbage with multi year contracts.

[TheFuzz]

Wretch, what veterans are you talking about? We got Kyle Korver for free basically so why not. Lou Williams is a vet I guess but he's just hitting his prime and we got him for $5.5M a year. IMO, Ferry hit a homerun with the JJ trade and hasn't made a bad move yet, including on draft picks. I would have liked to see Smith turned into some value but it doesn't sound like that was possible.

Ferry kept us a playoff team this year in hope of attracting the stud free agents. If we fail to attract a stud this offseason, I doubt we'll be signing players like Iggy and Mayo and Jefferson (at least I hope not). I believe Ferry might sign someone who slips through the cracks (someone like Tyreke if he comes cheaply). I could also see us going into full tank mode next year, maybe even trading Horford.

If Dwight/CP3 doesn't come here, I think a coach will be Ferry's biggest move of the offseason.

P.S. I'll admit, I'm a Ferry nuthugger. I've been really impressed with what he's done so far.

[Buzzard]

Like I said earlier, it's a great place if your a young and upcoming team. It's not a great place to be if you were that young and upcoming team 6 years ago. At this stage, after dealing our leading scorer, I'd rather be stockpiling assets - to make us better or to use in trades. I'd rather rebuild with a couple of solid pieces like Horford and Teague (I would have started that after the Chicago series).

The first set of moves DF made put us on the path to rebuild. That's the course we should have kept - full speed.

Can't finish the plan of having cap until you actually have it and can use it. And moving Josh for crap players on contracts longer than a season hurts the plan instead of helping. Horford and Teague being the only core left after this off season, I would say is at least 50/50.

Why in the world would you send a expiring contract for another expiring? Keep the better player and at least try to get some value for him, even if its a pick two years from now. Sounds to me like you are saying move Josh at all cost and keep Teague and Horford. That is just irresponsible in my mind. Everyone around the NBA knows Ferry almost got a deal done with the Bucks but you.

But Ferry wanted Irsan, or Luc, or a pick and the Bucks only offered their bench players and most of them are not expiring. Why do we take on longer contracts, worse players, and no pick? For a rebuilding team, its better to just let Josh walk and clear the cap than to take on bad cap.

[Wretch]

I'm just...not sure how to put this so that it makes sense to you guys. I'm not a Danny Ferry "hater" and I don't want to waste cap space. I applauded DF for turning down the lowball offers at the trade deadline, but at the same time, I saw no reason to wait all the way UP TO the trading deadline. I also don't see the point in resigning Josh Smith (unless he somehow miraculously decides to play the right way). It should also tell a lot of people something that we were so actively shopping him...but let's not turn this into a Josh Smith thread.

Honestly, you guys are just not getting what I'm saying. So, I'm just gonna bow out and let you have it. I think I've said my piece a hundred-zillion times. Understand though that we are again at one of those critical points in our franchise. We will look back at this with 20/20 and be like, "Wow...we shoulda/woulda/coulda..."

I'm telling you now that the best option last summer was a GUT and full on rebuild. The best plan this summer, unless we somehow miraculously land D12, is to avoid "win without losing."

Let's revisit this in 2-3 years.