2013 Summer Dynasty Draft

[Buzzard]

Oooo insult me at my craft.Lopez deal was unguaranteed for 1.They could have facilitated a deal to Portland separately for 2.A Vasquez' possible extension would not kick in for another year for 3.That is a whole year of Jrue type production that they would have received for a fraction of the cost WHILE STILL MAINTAINING THEIR DRAFT ASSETS AND POSSESSING THE ABILITY SIGN TYREKE.

The point is the point. They obviously believe in Holiday's abilities vs Vasquez. They obviously like Tyreke as a scoring option.

They traded Grevis while the iron was hot IMO and now the Kings are in the situation that New Orleans avoided. Two PG's ( Thomas and Grevis ) who both want to start and also EVENTUALLY want to be paid. Funny thing about all this, for all the hyperbole about Grevis, Thomas has arguably outplayed Grevis this preseason

Edited October 28, 2013 by Buzzard

[MaceCase]

The point is the point. They obviously believe in Holiday's abilities vs Vasquez. They obviously like Tyreke as a scoring option.

They traded Grevis while the iron was hot IMO and now the Kings are in the situation that New Orleans avoided. Two PG's ( Thomas and Grevis ) who both want to start and also EVENTUALLY want to be paid. Funny thing about all this, for all the hyperbole about Grevis, Thomas has arguably outplayed Grevis this preseason

Wait, say what? This is making my head hurt. So NOLA was worried about having to pay Vasquez in the future so they traded for a similar player already on a very lucrative contract?

This somehow was less hindering for them (already having an expensive guard) to go out and get another expensive guard?

ay yi yi.

The funny thing is that Vasquez is still proving to be a better PG than Jrue this preseason and whatever asinine reasoning there is that Vasquez would somehow become costly in the future seems to be oblivious to the fact that Jrue Holiday will cost them 43 million today to go along with losing two draft picks.

It is also extremely hypocrotical To applaud one team for being justified in their "belief" of valuing one player over another when there is zero statistical reasoning behind the move especially when considering the cost but then chastise another team for their own belief that they adequately replaced their PG with their own draft pick while also gaining two additional franchise changing assets. That is some baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaad hoodoo there.

[Buzzard]

Wait, say what? This is making my head hurt. So NOLA was worried about having to pay Vasquez in the future so they traded for a similar player already on a very lucrative contract?

This somehow was less hindering for them (already having an expensive guard) to go out and get another expensive guard?

ay yi yi.

The funny thing is that Vasquez is still proving to be a better PG than Jrue this preseason and whatever asinine reasoning there is that Vasquez would somehow become costly in the future seems to be oblivious to the fact that Jrue Holiday will cost them 43 million today to go along with losing two draft picks.

It is also extremely hypocrotical To applaud one team for being justified in their "belief" of valuing one player over another when there is zero statistical reasoning behind the move especially when considering the cost but then chastise another team for their own belief that they adequately replaced their PG with their own draft pick while also gaining two additional franchise changing assets. That is some baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaad hoodoo there.

It is not hypocritical to like a player over the another. If so, we are all hypocrites. Otherwise all fans would just say I like all players in the NBA and who cares which ones are on our teams. Jesus you are negatively opinionated when it comes to other posters opinions. Or is it just mine?

Vasquez avg 9 assist per game last season. He knows, the Pelicans know, and the Kings know he is going to get a nice pay day. The Kings are trying to head that off right now with a extension. At the end of the day, the Pelicans got a SG/Sixth man for Vasquez and a PG they like in Holiday. Hate all you want; but they ( and I ) like the idea of paying Holiday and Tyreke long term more than paying Vasquez and Tyreke long term.

They did this for the long term; whether you like it, agree with it, or not. And none of this makes us hypocrites. It just puts us on different sides of this debate,

Edited October 28, 2013 by Buzzard

[Buzzard]

The funny thing is that Vasquez is still proving to be a better PG than Jrue this preseason and whatever asinine reasoning there is that Vasquez would somehow become costly in the future seems to be oblivious to the fact that Jrue Holiday will cost them 43 million today to go along with losing two draft picks.

I don't know where you are getting your preseason numbers from. Grevis is shooting a paltry 30.8 % from the field this preseason. I don't expect that to continue; but saying he is playing better than either Holiday or Thomas this preseason is simply not true. If you sort on per 48, it does not make Grevis look any better.

Link:

http://stats.nba.com/leadersGrid.html?Season=2013-14&SeasonType=Pre%20Season&PerMode=PerGame&Scope=S&StatCategory=PTS&pageNo=1&rowsPerPage=25&sortField=AST&sortOrder=DES

Edited October 29, 2013 by Buzzard

[MaceCase]

For the love of god, I am only negatively opinionated towards dense posters. I will repeat, repeat, they did not need to engage in a sign and trade for Tyreke so stop spouting this outright wrong information as though they utilized Vasquez as a trade chip to acquire him or Holiday when this is factually wrong.

For a fan of the Hawks you should be very knowledgeable of a similar situation where a team burnt valuable assets in order to secure a RFA that they could already sign outright. The Pelicans are similarly as dumb as Billy Knight was thinking that they needed to throw in additional premium assets on top of offering a salary that was already cost restrictive for the Kings to match.

Additionally, how much higher of a salary do you think Vasquez could possible make than Holiday in an extension? What exactly is the argument here? It would seem as if you are trying to say that Vasquez is in fact superior or at least comparable by the fact you think he would be similarly compensated as Holiday. Now the problem here is that you traded 2 firsts to acquire Holiday whereas you threw Vasquez away for a player you could already afford. That is terrible asset management, signing Tyreke and moving Vasquez in a separate deal would have at least tried to replace the assets that they had lost, no?

I said that Vasquez is demonstrating to be a better PG than Holiday in preseason. You harped on before in our debate over bigmen that the focus for that position is on a particular set of stats over others yet here you are being hypocritical again by grading a PG on FG%. How about the fact that Vasquez has a 2.67 assist to turnover ratio to Holiday's 1.32? Also to be noted, Michael Carter-Williams led amongst all PGs in the preseason with a 3.10 AST/TO ratio......on a bad team....... hmmmmmmmmm.

So fine, go ahead and have an opinion, we are all entitled to them. But in a debate where we have an expensive guard......who was traded for a highly touted bigman (already a no no in the NBA, trading big for small).......and a minimally protected draft pick in a historically lauded deep draft class.......to a team that already had a comparable player still on their rookie deal..........from a team that has apparently replaced him with a rookie already displaying the potential to be just as good.........

......Recognize that you are resting on your opinion and just that. There just are too many checks in the "why this was a bad trade" column to be acting like this is just a debate over preference but carry on, get that last word in.

[Buzzard]

For the love of god, I am only negatively opinionated towards dense posters. I will repeat, repeat, they did not need to engage in a sign and trade for Tyreke so stop spouting this outright wrong information as though they utilized Vasquez as a trade chip to acquire him or Holiday when this is factually wrong.

They moved Grevis 2.2 million and Lopez 5.1 million 2013, and 5.3 million 2014 , and received Tyreke and Withey. You act like clearing 7.3 million dollars should not be part of their consideration. I guess you think the Pelicans should roll like the Knicks or Heat.

And get your facts right; Tyreke was a RFA so quit spouting off about him being able to sign with anyone outright. Its misleading and nothing more than another assumption on your part that the Kings would not match. You are full of assumptions; and throw them around this board like they are facts.

Another perfect example: talking about how Grevis was proving himself this preseason to be better than Holiday. Have you even watched a Kings game this preseason? Or at the very least looked at a NBA box score other than the Hawks? I doubt it very seriously with statements like that. Vasquez is playing like shit and Kings fans are worried that Thomas, because of his better offensive output, may be the better starter.

Edited October 29, 2013 by Buzzard

[MaceCase]

Learn to read and, more importantly, digest information. It'll save you from looking like an idiot and others from having to point out that you are wrong for the 5th time.

[Buzzard]

Learn to read and, more importantly, digest information. It'll save you from looking like an idiot and others from having to point out that you are wrong for the 5th time.

Tyreke RFA and QO made. Link:

http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2013/6/25/4464776/nba-free-agency-2013-tyreke-evans-kings

[MaceCase]

Oh, now he thinks I didn't know that Tyreke was an RFA......besides my mentioning it beforehand. The magic of reading.

[MaceCase]

Evans has a four-year deal worth an estimated $44-million plus incentives waiting for him from the Pelicans. New Orleans was the first team to meet with Evans when the free agency period began late Sunday evening.According to one person with knowledge of the talks between Evans and Sacramento, the Kings were caught off guard by the value the market has set for the 23-year-old. The source added that the Kings value Evans as a $8-9 million-a-year player, far below the $11 million a season that Pelicans are willing to commit.

http://cowbellkingdom.com/2013/07/03/tyreke-evans-still-open-to-re-signing-with-sacramento-kings/

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I guess if you won't read it when I type it maybe others will help get your foot out of your mouth.

So we have it that New Orleans already had an offer sheet set for Evans. Check

This indicates that money isn't a problem otherwise....why offer someone something that you don't have?

We have it that New Orleans could have cleared whatever neccesary cap regardless by either A) waiving Lopez or B) trading him to an already existant suitor.

We have it that Sacramento jumps in last minute to restructure the already possible Pelicans offer and turn it into a sign and trade for Vasquez.......and the Pelicans said, sure why not, he's expendable to us and we certainly can't envision using him for some other trade purpose.

[Buzzard]

http://cowbellkingdom.com/2013/07/03/tyreke-evans-still-open-to-re-signing-with-sacramento-kings/

I guess if you won't read it when I type it maybe others will help get your foot out of your mouth.

So we have it that New Orleans already had an offer sheet set for Evans. Check

This indicates that money isn't a problem otherwise....why offer someone something that you don't have?

Its your assumptions Mace that get questioned. You say on one hand the Pelicans should have just released Lopez before the July 5th deadline; yet claim the Kings had no intention of matching Tyreke and forcing a SNT. If that was really the case, why make a QO to begin with?

The Kings could have cleared over five million more in free agent money; but instead chose to lock themselves into it. Both teams were under the cap. Both chose to keep two assets locked in even though it went against their cap. That is just being smart Mace.

Withey gives them their 3rd center on the depth chart. Holiday replaces Grevis on the depth chart. Tyreke is a rock solid sixth man and starter/injury insurance.

Their depth chart as it is consist of Holiday, Gordon, Tyreke, Roberts and Rivers. Grevis would only add to a already crowded back court. Why use all their cap for all those guards?

Its almost like you are ignoring the fact that they already acquired Holiday before they moved Grevis and Lopez for Tyreke and Withey..

Edited October 29, 2013 by Buzzard

[MaceCase]

LMAO. Right so teams only extend QOs to their free agents if they fully intend to resign them now? I guess that's why Josh Childress is still on our roster, or Jeremy Lin on the Knicks, or Omer Asik on the Bulls.......wait. The QO was extended because he was an asset to the Kings, now of course he wasn't a tremendous asset to them otherwise he would have been extended a year before he hit free agency......much like they did Cousins......and are attempting to do with Vasquez.

Now they had a certain number in their head as to what they wouldn't mind resignining him to but Tyreke went out and found a better offer........ any reasonably intelligent person would recognize this. Teams that are far apart on how they value a player and how the player and their agent value themselves often let the market decide their value for them. If the value is within their means to match, they match, if not, they let them go or try to facillitate a sign and trade to garner at least a pick and TPE in return. Not extending the QO eliminates this entirely as an option. A big f***ing duh on that part. This is what's referred to as asset management, something the Pelicans suck at.

I already demonstrated that they could have moved Lopez to the Blazers independent of involving Sacramento to create cap space and you just want to act like a nancy over that fact. That was not a hindrance to them, thus why they went out and offered Tyreke his contract as a free agent in the first place. They did not approach the Kings, the Kings approached them on a trade after the fact.

You also seem to be entirely oblivious to the point that I'm making to you over Vasquez in that:

A) they didn't need to trade for Jrue in the first place considering that they already had a comparable and much cheaper player both in salary and assets to acquire on their squad.

B) having traded for Jrue they didn't need to involve him for Tyreke considering that they already possessed the ability to snare him away from the Kings with cap space and a restrictive contract for a player that hasn't won anything as a King and they just so happen to have other mouths to feed (Cousins) including the guy they drafted 7th overall to replace him, Ben McLemore.

C) As an extension of point B, considering that they burned 2 first rounders to acquire Jrue, they could have easily attempted to move Vasquez to an entirely separate team and try to recoup one of those assets......instead, no, they decided to throw him away in a deal for a player that they already had the full means to acquire in the first place.

Now considering that the Pelicans are not at all a deep team and they've decided to go along with this highly expensive backcourt, don't you think it would behoove them to maintain as many trade assets as possible in order to further improve their roster? Wait, I don't even think your ego would allow you to answer that truthfully.

Either smarten up or don't bother wasting your time debating me. I hate having to waste my time destroying such a poorly put together argument but alas, it bothers me to know that there is so much ignorance in the world.

[Buzzard]

LMAO. Right so teams only extend QOs to their free agents if they fully intend to resign them now? I guess that's why Josh Childress is still on our roster, or Jeremy Lin on the Knicks, or Omer Asik on the Bulls.......wait. The QO was extended because he was an asset to the Kings, now of course he wasn't a tremendous asset to them otherwise he would have been extended a year before he hit free agency......much like they did Cousins......and are attempting to do with Vasquez.

Either smarten up or don't bother wasting your time debating me. I hate having to waste my time destroying such a poorly put together argument but alas, it bothers me to know that there is so much ignorance in the world.

You are assuming the Kings would let Tyreke walk and they didn't. You are assuming the Pelicans would let Lopez walk and they didn't. Instead both teams tied up five million dollars in cap/free agent money to make sure they didn't just walk.

I am not assuming anything. I am simply stating what they did and did not do. Like I said, its your assumptions stated as fact that do not pan out for me.

And your best examples of good RFA's walking are with teams already over the cap. In case you did not notice that?

Edited October 30, 2013 by Buzzard

[Buzzard]

Mace, my last statement then I am done with this. I do think the Evans for Vasquez trade is a win for both teams. The Kings got a PG that should replace Thomas as their starter. And the Pelicans got a sixth man who I see as a better fit for them than Vasquez.

Portland may be the loser in this one IMO. I see Lopez as a 5 million dollar a year 2nd or 3rd center. Not as good as ZaZa to be honest. Whereas Withey could pan out as a defensive big man off the bench for a whole lot less.

I get the logic for all three teams; but who really wins will be determined in the regular season and maybe the playoffs.

Edited October 30, 2013 by Buzzard

[MaceCase]

LMAO!

I'm sorry, did the Kings actually match Tyreke Evan's contract? You claim I'm making an assumption here...but they didn't match him for fact.

I'm sorry, did the Pelicans trade Lopez to the Kings?

I'm sorry, would adding 11.8 million to 53 million of guaranteed salary not put a team over the cap? What about when Cousin's max extension kicks in a season later?

Sorry, it's too late to bow out gracefully now. You've been wrong on everything yet kept beating the drum.

[Buzzard]

LMAO!

I'm sorry, did the Kings actually match Tyreke Evan's contract? You claim I'm making an assumption here...but they didn't match him for fact.

I'm sorry, did the Pelicans trade Lopez to the Kings?

I'm sorry, would adding 11.8 million to 53 million of guaranteed salary not put a team over the cap? What about when Cousin's max extension kicks in a season later?

Sorry, it's too late to bow out gracefully now. You've been wrong on everything yet kept beating the drum.

I've not been wrong on anything.

The Pelicans let the deadline pass on the 5th locking them into Lopez 2013 year.

A SNT requires the owning rights team to sign.

Is there any part of locking Lopez in and signing Tyreke to get the sign and trade done that you don't understand?

I can split hairs with the best of them.

[Admin]

Boy that MCW sure does look awful against the Heat. 5 points, 4 assists and 4 steals in the 1st quarter and the Sixers are up 20.

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[MaceCase]

Is my rook gonna get me a Points Assists and STeals trip-dub?

[Admin]

Is my rook gonna get me a Points Assists and STeals trip-dub?

Gonna be close. He's no Holiday but I think he'll end up being ok.

[Buzzard]

Gonna be close. He's no Holiday but I think he'll end up being ok.

He is having hell of a 1st game. I don't think NO is complaining yet either. They are up 14 at the half over Indy. Teague is having a great game. Detroit was killing the Wizards. One game/one half sample sizes looking pretty awesome for a few teams and players right now.

I love that quote about Philly trading Thad and Evan lmao.