2013 Summer Dynasty Draft

[Buzzard]

That is a Philly tank job, IMO. It isn't irrational - it is a lost season from a wins perspective either way so why not take your time and make sure he is completely healthy and then maximize your shot at Wiggins?

I think Philly blew it. They could have built around a very good young PG in Jrue. Teamed up with Thad, Turner, and taken either Adams or Olynyk. Instead they went all in on Noel and Carter-Williams.

Two years from now, OKC may not trade Adams for both Carter-Williiams and Noel combined. Pitiful use of draft picks IMO.

Edited October 25, 2013 by Buzzard

[Admin]

I think Philly blew it. They could have built around a very good young PG in Jrue. Teamed up with Thad, Turner, and taken either Adams or Olynyk. Instead they went all in on Noel and Carter-Williams.

Two years from now, OKC may not trade Adams for both Carter-Williiams and Noel combined. Pitiful use of draft picks IMO.

I love what Philly did. They're going to suck this year but add Wiggins or one of the other can't miss prospects to the young kids from this year and Turner and they've got a bright future.

[AHF]

I love what Philly did. They're going to suck this year but add Wiggins or one of the other can't miss prospects to the young kids from this year and Turner and they've got a bright future.

I like their approach as well. They have a decent shot at a second lottery pick this season from the Pelicans in addition to their own. If that pans out, that player has a great shot at having more value than either Holiday or Adams. Keeping Holiday would have been a mistake because he is a decent PG but not a top one and he would have been getting paid like a stud for a team that needs to lose this year.

[Admin]

I like their approach as well. They have a decent shot at a second lottery pick this season from the Pelicans in addition to their own. If that pans out, that player has a great shot at having more value than either Holiday or Adams. Keeping Holiday would have been a mistake because he is a decent PG but not a top one and he would have been getting paid like a stud for a team that needs to lose this year.

I agree I think they thoroughly raped the Pelicans in this deal. Holiday is a fringe PG who's never going to put a team over the top so no reason to fret losing him.

[Buzzard]

I agree I think they thoroughly raped the Pelicans in this deal. Holiday is a fringe PG who's never going to put a team over the top so no reason to fret losing him.

A fringe PG who was 4th in the NBA at 8.0 assist per game while still putting up 17.7 PPG. Its like this: Jrue avg more apg than Deron, and more ppg than Paul. He is also four years younger than Paul, and five years younger than Deron.

The 76ers may need another decade of draft picks and trades before they replace him with a PG of equal talent.

Edited October 26, 2013 by Buzzard

[Admin]

A fringe PG who was 4th in the NBA at 8.0 assist per game while still putting up 17.7 PPG. Its like this: Jrue avg more apg than Deron, and more ppg than Paul. He is also four years younger than Paul, and five years younger than Deron.

The 76ers may need another decade of draft picks and trades before they replace him with a PG of equal talent.

Lots of guys have put up stats on a bad team, that doesn't make him a difference maker. Do you consider Jose Calderon to be a difference maker or simply a fringe PG? Those numbers aren't a lot higher than what Teague put up, do you consider him to be a difference maker?

The Sixers picked up a pretty darn talented PG in MCW. He'll never be the same level of offensive talent but he's going to be at least equal as a playmaker and a much better defender. Gonna take a couple of years but he will be a good one.

[Buzzard]

Lots of guys have put up stats on a bad team, that doesn't make him a difference maker. Do you consider Jose Calderon to be a difference maker or simply a fringe PG? Those numbers aren't a lot higher than what Teague put up, do you consider him to be a difference maker?

The Sixers picked up a pretty darn talented PG in MCW. He'll never be the same level of offensive talent but he's going to be at least equal as a playmaker and a much better defender. Gonna take a couple of years but he will be a good one.

I see bust written all over Carter-Williams. And getting assist on bad teams is a lot tougher to do than when you are on a good team ( CP3, Deron, Teague ).

Philly had another fire sale and the fantasy is picks always work out. Noel may not see the floor this season but lets get hyped about him. Carter-Williams will strugle to score 10ppg but lets get hyped about him. What you are hyped about is exactly what the 76ers ownership is trying to sell.

Meanwhile ownership has sold out on Iggy, Lou, and Holiday and they are contemplating not even renewing Evans rookie deal. What they have done is no different than if our ownership would have dumped Smith ( without getting a comparable replacement ), Horford, and Teague to sell us on a dirt cheap team with draft picks. I would be miserable if we were in the 76ers shoes right now.

Edited October 26, 2013 by Buzzard

[Admin]

I see bust written all over Carter-Williams. And getting assist on bad teams is a lot tougher to do than when you are on a good team ( CP3, Deron, Teague ).

Philly had another fire sale and the fantasy is picks always work out. Noel may not see the floor this season but lets get hyped about him. Carter-Williams will strugle to score 10ppg but lets get hyped about him. What you are hyped about is exactly what the 76ers ownership is trying to sell.

Meanwhile ownership has sold out on Iggy, Lou, and Holiday and they are contemplating not even renewing Evans rookie deal. What they have done is no different than if our ownership would have dumped Smith ( without getting a comparable replacement ), Horford, and Teague to sell us on a dirt cheap team with draft picks. I would be miserable if we were in the 76ers shoes right now.

I watched MCW for an entire season at Syracuse and I can safely attest that he's the best Syracuse player since Carmelo. I'm not buying into any hype about him, I've seen the difference he makes defensively and I've seen his playmaking ability and he's a pro style player as well. Noel may be hype but he was the #1 prospect in the country all season for a reason. It's going to take a while but he's going to be a good player as well. Add to that 2 chances to get elite talent in the 2014 draft and the future looks great in Philly.

Getting assists on a bad team is arguably easier than on a good team. Look at guys like Collison and Calderon and what they've done on bad teams. Are those top tier PGs like you're acting Holiday is? Heck no and that's why Philly knew they should go ahead and rape New Orleans since they were desperate to make a big splash with their fans.

[Buzzard]

Getting assists on a bad team is arguably easier than on a good team. Look at guys like Collison and Calderon and what they've done on bad teams. Are those top tier PGs like you're acting Holiday is? Heck no and that's why Philly knew they should go ahead and rape New Orleans since they were desperate to make a big splash with their fans.

Its not easier. Calderon is one of the best pass first PGs in the NBA but he has never been able to score. Last season was easily his best shooting the three ball. Collison's best season was on a borderline playoff team in the much stronger west with Okafor, West, Thorton, and Peja. And then he ONLY avg 5.7 apg. Not close to Calderon or Holiday.

You either excel at passing or you don't. You either excel at scoring or you don't. Holiday excels at both. He is 6'4" tall, only 23 years old, and already made a all-star game. The Pelicans are set at PG for the next five years or more.

[Admin]

Its not easier. Calderon is one of the best pass first PGs in the NBA but he has never been able to score. Last season was easily his best shooting the three ball. Collison's best season was on a borderline playoff team in the much stronger west with Okafor, West, Thorton, and Peja. And then he ONLY avg 5.7 apg. Not close to Calderon or Holiday.

You either excel at passing or you don't. You either excel at scoring or you don't. Holiday excels at both. He is 6'4" tall, only 23 years old, and already made a all-star game. The Pelicans are set at PG for the next five years or more.

Well you're entitled to your opinion but I don't see Holiday as any better than Teague types. Good but not great and not worth giving up a fortune for. Agree to disagree here.

[Buzzard]

Well you're entitled to your opinion but I don't see Holiday as any better than Teague types. Good but not great and not worth giving up a fortune for. Agree to disagree here.

Its mostly the idea that the Pelicans got raped when they picked up a all star PG for two draft picks. Only time will tell but in order for them to get raped, both of those picks need to turn into very good to great players. If only one pick does that, it was a fair trade. If neither does, its the Pelicans that did the raping.

I like New Orleans one / two punch of Holiday and Davis. Now add in Gordon, Tyreke, Aminu, and Anderson. IMO they just need a complimentary defensive big man next to Davis and its off to the races for them.

Edited October 27, 2013 by Buzzard

[MaceCase]

you can't excuse the fact that Jrue didn't even have a better season than the PG he is replacing in NOLA, Grievis Vasquez .

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=vasqugr01&y1=2013&p2=holidjr01&y2=2013

It cost the Pelicans 2 1sts to gain Jrue whereas all they got for Vasquez was a player that they could have signed outright considering that the Kings had little intention of matching.

This would seem to confirm that perhaps it is easy to get assists on bad teams and that maybe the All Star label is clouding the perception on actual value. Philly doesn't need 1 or both of the picks to succeed in order to be considered the winner of the trade, simply dumping 43 million worth of a clearly overatted player is already victory enough. Not like they ever won with him as a main option anyway.

[Buzzard]

you can't excuse the fact that Jrue didn't even have a better season than the PG he is replacing in NOLA, Grievis Vasquez .

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=vasqugr01&y1=2013&p2=holidjr01&y2=2013

It cost the Pelicans 2 1sts to gain Jrue whereas all they got for Vasquez was a player that they could have signed outright considering that the Kings had little intention of matching.

This would seem to confirm that perhaps it is easy to get assists on bad teams and that maybe the All Star label is clouding the perception on actual value. Philly doesn't need 1 or both of the picks to succeed in order to be considered the winner of the trade, simply dumping 43 million worth of a clearly overatted player is already victory enough. Not like they ever won with him as a main option anyway.

The Kings are trying to sign Vasquez to a extension right now. The Pelicans obviously saw Jrue as the better player over Vasquez and chose to pay him instead. Moving Vasquez for Tyreke saved them the cap of having to resign Vasquez or releasing him outright; plus they dumped Robin Lopez. You don't have to like the move to understand the math.

NO management has some big balls and they are trying to surround their franchise player with talent. I like what they did a lot this off season.

Edited October 28, 2013 by Buzzard

[AHF]

Holliday was a wholly undeserving "All-Star." He is much better than Collison, etc. but he isn't even a top 10 pg.

[Buzzard]

Holliday was a wholly undeserving "All-Star." He is much better than Collison, etc. but he isn't even a top 10 pg.

Why isn't he a top ten point guard? Among starting PG's last season, he was 4th in assist, 9th in ppg, and a very respectable 36.8 from downtown.

[Admin]

Why isn't he a top ten point guard? Among starting PG's last season, he was 4th in assist, 9th in ppg, and a very respectable 36.8 from downtown.

I haven't gone back and looked but I'm guessing you drafted him for your dynasty team?

BTW Rotoworld has him projected as the 15th best PG this year, which is probably about right, give or take a few spots.

2013 Projections, Rankings and Tiers for Point Guards - Rotoworld.pdf

[MaceCase]

The Kings are trying to sign Vasquez to a extension right now. The Pelicans obviously saw Jrue as the better player over Vasquez and chose to pay him instead. Moving Vasquez for Tyreke saved them the cap of having to resign Vasquez or releasing him outright; plus they dumped Robin Lopez. You don't have to like the move to understand the math. NO management has some big balls and they are trying to surround their franchise player with talent. I like what they did a lot this off season.

This isn't making any sense, moving Vasquez for Tyreke saved them what? 1.5 million? They were not obligated to resign him and what are the chances he ends up making as much as Jrue? They engaged themselves in creative accounting for a player that they had the cap room to sign and then trippled the cost on a type of player they already had.On what basis did they rate Jrue better than Grievis? Just because they happened to doesn't mean they are right because statistically....the justification isn't there.It seems like you are similarly guilty of buying what the NOLA management is selling. They overspend for overrated players but they've sold you on "we acquired an All Star and former Rookie of th Year!" Rather than anything these players have actually achieved on the court. They are giving you the illusion of forward progression when all they managed was to shuffle the deck.

[Buzzard]

I haven't gone back and looked but I'm guessing you drafted him for your dynasty team?

BTW Rotoworld has him projected as the 15th best PG this year, which is probably about right, give or take a few spots.

No I don't have him on my dynasty team ( my picks are in my signature ). For all this talk about how his stats were helped by being on a bad team, some of us are totally ignoring perhaps his best overall season ( 2010-11 ) when Philly was a up and coming playoff team.

Last season he had to take on more of a scoring mode and defensive's could definitely focus on him. I look for his points to drop to around 16, his assist to stay about the same or improve, but with all the weapons in New Orleans his eff will improve to those 2010-11 numbers. IMO his FG% was his only weakness last season.

[Buzzard]

This isn't making any sense, moving Vasquez for Tyreke saved them what? 1.5 million? They were not obligated to resign him and what are the chances he ends up making as much as Jrue? They engaged themselves in creative accounting for a player that they had the cap room to sign and then trippled the cost on a type of player they already had.On what basis did they rate Jrue better than Grievis? Just because they happened to doesn't mean they are right because statistically....the justification isn't there.It seems like you are similarly guilty of buying what the NOLA management is selling. They overspend for overrated players but they've sold you on "we acquired an All Star and former Rookie of th Year!" Rather than anything these players have actually achieved on the court. They are giving you the illusion of forward progression when all they managed was to shuffle the deck.

Are you really a capologist? They dumped Lopez's 4 million and what Vasquez gets has not been decided yet. If you think he will resign for 1.5 million, you need to turn in your cap badge.

And just because you say they are wrong, does not make them wrong.

[MaceCase]

Are you really a capologist? They dumped Lopez's 4 million and what Vasquez gets has not been decided yet. If you think he will resign for 1.5 million, you need to turn in your cap badge. And just because you say they are wrong, does not make them wrong.

Oooo insult me at my craft.Lopez deal was unguaranteed for 1.They could have facilitated a deal to Portland separately for 2.A Vasquez' possible extension would not kick in for another year for 3.That is a whole year of Jrue type production that they would have received for a fraction of the cost WHILE STILL MAINTAINING THEIR DRAFT ASSETS AND POSSESSING THE ABILITY SIGN TYREKE.