Hawks Pre-Season Power Ranking in East

[turnermx]

To me Dennis is already a better passer than Harris and should be more healthy and maybe not the man defender Harris was he is definitely more of a ball hawk. Millsap and Brand downgrade from Smith and Zaza? You cant be serious! Zaza and Harris were both injured a lot last tear just by replacing them with healthy bodies we should win more.Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2

[MaceCase]

This is hilarious, yo compare Bennett to Griffin, yo have no idea of this player my friend, do Blake shot 3pt at 0,38% converting more than one 3pt per game?, has Blake Griffin a reliable jump shot? Is Blake Griffin considered a tweener? Has LAC front office that they are going to try Griffin at SF? Bennett can play SF and although probably he will play more at PF, he is more similar to Josh Smith than to a typical PF, you guys considered Smith as an option at SF... you don't want to count on Bennett? Ok, even Gee and Karasev I would say are even with Korver. They would still be better at 3 positions at least.

No, what is hilarious is you are comparing a college PF to an NBA SF simply because he was able to hit the college 3 and was drafted high. Korver has stroked the NBA 3 to the point of being in the top 5 All TIme at it. Bennett being selected 1st overall doesn't mean shit, Marvin went 2nd after all in a much stronger draft and Bennett isn't even comparable to Josh either who was a hyper athletic wing out of high school. So who else do they have, Gee? Scrub. Karasev? Another rookie that hasn't done shit at the NBA level and, oh ho, was drafted after both of our 1st rounders. Honestly, if Bennett is getting all of this permission, why aren't we able to slot our SF rotation as Korver, Carroll, Millsap and Scott then? Hey, Pero can hit the 3 too, so yea, I think we have that position definitely covered.

Waiters outplayed by Jenkins?? Are you serious about that?

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=jenkijo01&y1=2013&p2=waitedi01&y2=2013

How does a player play half your minutes yet produce more wins than you? Oh, it's because your draft slot only suggests that you will play to justify your salary and not neccesarily because you earned it.

I forgot Lou as I forgot Jarret Jack, and Karasev, Thompson, Zeller, CJ Miles, Earl Clark... their bench is better also.

As you also forgot Brand and Schröder and Bebe and Carroll and Pero and Scott and Muscala and Mack.

And finally the best argument, so if they selected some players at the draft with other better options available, does that mean we have better talent? Sorry?? So what we should say with Josh Childress, Marvin, Shelden Williams, Law.....

.........We would say that they were all busts who weren't worthy of their draft slots.....

Did you really just use Marvin, Chiils, Shellhead and Acie as an argument for why you think Cleveland is better? Selecting mid-tier prospects with high picks doesn't magically make them.....better prospects. It means that they are no better than our own mid-tier picks in everything but bank account.

They have a superstar on Irving surrounded by very good young talent at every positions, if Bynum plays 60 games I bet they can be slightly ahead of us.

They have Kyrie........and thats it. If Kyrie was this "super" star that you claim surrounded by all this young talent then he would have managed to win more than just one more game in two seasons than the Hawks did in only one. They added Jack: a career journeyman backup that had one good playoff run, Bynum: a center that has managed 60 games played only 3 times in 8 years, Clark: another journeyman that had an overrated first half of only one season, Bennett: a player ranked closer to 10th in a weak draft that they miraculously selected 1st overall and some mid-first and second rounders to the exact same core they had last season that was 3rd worst in the league. Really, those are the guys adding 20 wins to that squad? Maybe in 2 years they'll reach tha kind of improvement but certainly not next season.

[Nicholasp27]

Gurpilo has serious grass is greener syndromeAlso, anyone that mentions Boston or Toronto in the playoff discussion isn't following the nba...both of those teams have shrewd gms that are tanking for wiggins...neither will get close to the playoffs

[NBASupes]

Gurpilo has serious grass is greener syndromeAlso, anyone that mentions Boston or Toronto in the playoff discussion isn't following the nba...both of those teams have shrewd gms that are tanking for wiggins...neither will get close to the playoffs

Toronto isn't that bad though nor is Boston. Those two teams are on par with us.

Rondo/Pressey

Bradley/HS favorite Brooks

Green/Crash/Courtney Lee/Bogans

Bass/Hump/Sully

Kelly O/Melo

Positives: Very good defense, very good depth, skilled offensively players, Rondo's leadership.

Issues: Can't create 1v1 offense, lacks size, offensively they are average.

Toronto

Lowry/Augustin/Bucyks

Derozan/Ross/Fields

Gay/Q/Stone

Amir/Hansbrough/Novak/Acy

Jonas/Gray

Positives: Very good offense, size, athleticism, rebounding, solid defense, depth

Issues: BBIQ, chemistry, Consistency, finally putting it all together.

Atlanta

Teague/Dennis/Mack

Jenkins/Lou/Stevenson/Cunningham

Korver/DMC

Millsap/Scott/Antić/Ayón

Horford/Brand/Bebe/Mike M.

I know I got 17 players on the Hawks.

Positives: BBIQ, shooting, scoring off of the bench, Dennis Schröder, versatility, movement of the 2nd unit

Issues: Size, fit, chemistry, very bad defense, creating 1v1 offense of the starters, protecting the rim, perimeter defense, lack of NBA ready players.

From just looking at the rosters. I can't help but think we might be worse than either Toronto or Boston.

[Plainview1981]

Toronto isn't that bad though nor is Boston. Those two teams are on par with us.

Rondo/Pressey

Bradley/HS favorite Brooks

Green/Crash/Courtney Lee/Bogans

Bass/Hump/Sully

Kelly O/Melo

Positives: Very good defense, very good depth, skilled offensively players, Rondo's leadership.

Issues: Can't create 1v1 offense, lacks size, offensively they are average.

Toronto

Lowry/Augustin/Bucyks

Derozan/Ross/Fields

Gay/Q/Stone

Amir/Hansbrough/Novak/Acy

Jonas/Gray

Positives: Very good offense, size, athleticism, rebounding, solid defense, depth

Issues: BBIQ, chemistry, Consistency, finally putting it all together.

Atlanta

Teague/Dennis/Mack

Jenkins/Lou/Stevenson/Cunningham

Korver/DMC

Millsap/Scott/Antić/Ayón

Horford/Brand/Bebe/Mike M.

I know I got 17 players on the Hawks.

Positives: BBIQ, shooting, scoring off of the bench, Dennis Schröder, versatility, movement of the 2nd unit

Issues: Size, fit, chemistry, very bad defense, creating 1v1 offense of the starters, protecting the rim, perimeter defense, lack of NBA ready players.

From just looking at the rosters. I can't help but think we might be worse than either Toronto or Boston.

lol. Boston is NOT on par with us. That team doesn't even have a go to scorer. They lost two HOF players and somehow they will be as good as last year or better. Nah....

Edited July 29, 2013 by Hotlanta1981

[NBASupes]

lol. Boston is NOT on par with us. That team doesn't even have a go to scorer.

And we do? They have Rondo, he can create for others like Green and what not. Kelly Olynyk will be ROY most likely. Defensively they are very good. They should be better than us to be honest but it depends on Rondo's health.

[Plainview1981]

And we do? They have Rondo, he can create for others like Green and what not. Kelly Olynyk will be ROY most likely. Defensively they are very good. They should be better than us to be honest but it depends on Rondo's health.

They basically lost 2 HOF players and Terry and replaced them with a high draft pick in a weak draft. Yet, somehow you think they will be as good or better than last year. In an east that is probably tougher than last year. I don't know why people go insane over someone like Avery Bradley. He is a decent role player and nothing more.

It remains to be seen if Rondo is much better than Josh Smith. He is a talented guy but there is something about him that doesn't set well with me as a main guy. He has no jumper and that could matter more than ever now.

Edited July 29, 2013 by Hotlanta1981

[Plainview1981]

While stats don't mean everything almost nobody on Boston's team has good win shares. Not even Rondo the last two years. If Boston is as good as the Hawks this year then Al needs to go.

Edited July 29, 2013 by Hotlanta1981

[NBASupes]

While stats don't mean everything almost nobody on Boston's team has good win shares. Not even Rondo the last two years. If Boston is as good as the Hawks this year then Al needs to go.

The stats I care about the most is in-line with what you are saying. I don't care about WS but the stats I do care about all say Boston just lost their best two players and replace with a PF who is good on bad teams and bad on good teams and a SF who matched his production to his opponent and his team is better with him than without him. In other words, Boston will take a major step back but then again will they? With that be better as a more up-tempo team. They will be more athletic. They have skilled players. The one thing last year said was Brandon Bass while being a good backup is a horrible starter.

I don't see either team making the playoffs. I see both in the upper lottery not including injuries.

Edited July 29, 2013 by nbasupes40retired

[Plainview1981]

The stats I care about the most is in-line with what you are saying. I don't care about WS but the stats I do care about all say Boston just lost their best two players and replace with a PF who is good on bad teams and bad on good teams and a SF who matched his production to his opponent and his team is better with him than without him. In other words, Boston will take a major step back but then again will they? With that be better as a more up-tempo team. They will be more athletic. They have skilled players. The one thing last year said was Brandon Bass while being a good backup is a horrible starter.

I don't see either team making the playoffs. I see both in the upper lottery not including injuries.

It's a bit of an eye opener to me when someone with Rondo's talents have the low WS that they have. No stats are perfect, but almost all of the better players in this league have at least decent WS. Like Josh he has question marks in regards to leadership and scoring effectively. Like Josh he has no jumper, and his FT shooting is terrible. Jeff Green is a decent scorer, but that team should struggle to score on the offensive end.

The Hawks have 4 guys that will likely average between 15-20 PPG. The defensive side of the ball is tough though I must admit. It depends on how much the team scraps. I don't really like the Jenkins/Korver at SG and SF all that much I must admit. I don't think Jenkins is worth starting. He should be the 7th man. The lack of a rim protector and a SG with some size and scoring ability are probably the biggest weak links. Three of the starters from last year are back. We can't forget that Harris was in and out of the line up so much. So how much will chemistry come into play there?

I hope I'm wrong because we need a top pick. If the defense isn't near the bottom of the league this team will win some games. I think Korver, Millsap and Al are too efficient on the offensive end for this team to lose a lot of games unless the defense is just that bad.

Edited July 29, 2013 by Hotlanta1981

[NBASupes]

It's a bit of an eye opener to me when someone with Rondo's talents have the low WS that they have. No stats are perfect, but almost all of the better players in this league have at least decent WS. Like Josh he has question marks in regards to leadership and scoring effectively. Like Josh he has no jumper, and his FT shooting is terrible. Jeff Green is a decent scorer, but that team should struggle to score on the offensive end.

The Hawks have 4 guys that will likely average between 15-20 PPG. The defensive side of the ball is tough though I must admit. It depends on how much the team scraps. I don't really like the Jenkins/Korver at SG and SF all that much I must admit. I don't think Jenkins is worth starting. He should be the 7th man. The lack of a rim protector and a SG with some size and scoring ability are probably the biggest weak links. Three of the starters from last year are back. We can't forget that Harris was in and out of the line up so much. So how much will chemistry come into play there?

I hope I'm wrong because we need a top pick. If the defense isn't near the bottom of the league this team will win some games. I think Korver, Millsap and Al are too efficient on the offensive end for this team to lose a lot of games unless the defense is just that bad.

Not really a fan of WS. I am largely a fan of impact, not overall stats. That's why I like 82games.com stats. They tend to be the best impact stats. It's why Tim Duncan is still a top 5 NBA player when other stats have Duncan as a top 15-20 player. It shows why Jason Collins always redeemed +/- while getting outproduced on an epic level. Rondo's +/- was much better in 2012 than it was last year as he only played 36% of the team's minutes in 2012-13.

So I am somewhat skeptical of Rondo's numbers last year as well as I should be. We seen Horf numbers take a major hike after ASB.

Who are the Hawks that can average 15-20 PPG? I only see two players who can do that on the roster. That's Jeff and Al this upcoming season. Millsap and Lou will fall short. Especially Lou. With that said, either will come close to getting 20 PPG as the starting lineup stands. That is what I mean when I say the offense will struggle.

With that type of optimism Boston has like 5 guys who can do it. Rondo, Green, Crash, Olynyk, and Hump since they have all done it before.

Harris was our best PG if you use impact numbers and he was key to our best overall lineup. I am still not sold on Korver. He was a player that just had his best year on his contract year. What makes you think a big part of the reason Korver succeeded wasn't because of Smoove's defensive versatility which put Korver in good defensive situations and his rim protecting. We seem to just assume all the variables from last year will remain and then we are adding variables we gained. From that perspective, I can see why some think the Hawks will remain the same when I clearly see otherwise.

I really think this defense will be one of the worst in the NBA. PnR defense will be so awful. Teams know Jeff was bad at defending the PnR but Smoove always helped us in that at times. With Millsap, the presence on PnR defense is not there with either. I really think this is a bottom five overall defense and an average to below average offense at least till Schröder enters the games.

Edited July 29, 2013 by nbasupes40retired

[gurpilo]

I think with Jenning's move, Detroit has passed us, the ranking for me would be now

Miami

Indiana

Chicago

NJ

NY

Detroit

Cleveland, Washington, Atlanta, Boston, Toronto fighting for last 2 spots

Milwaukee lost much talent, I just don't like Knight as a starting PG.

[NBASupes]

Jennings in Det. I am not sure if this with be excellent or bad like Milwaukee. I really need to see them play together first like Houston.

[IllestPamfilis]

On paper Detroit looks good. In the video games they'll be awesome. But more likely than not it'll be a disaster in real life. Washington and Toronto? LOL...y'all are too funny. Boston? No way. I can see the Cavs making a pretty significant improvement.

Edited July 31, 2013 by IllestPamfilis

[ATLSmith]

6th seed seems a bit too optimistic to me. I think the Hawks will end up at 8th or 9th seed.

I can see them playing Schröder, Jennings, and Scott a lot to help their development but that will also mean a lot of rookie mistakes, loosing close games, or even getting blown out by teams the Hawks should beat.

[nitte]

The bottom line is barely missing the playoffs (9th seed) would be a disaster It would be a much worse than the treadmill we expect considering that we did not tank also.

[AHF]

The bottom line is barely missing the playoffs (9th seed) would be a disaster It would be a much worse than the treadmill we expect considering that we did not tank also.

Unless we get very lucky in the lottery ala Orlando with Penny Hardaway!

[nitte]

Unless we get very lucky in the lottery ala Orlando with Penny Hardaway!

Or the Bulls in 2008. Lucky!

[TheFuzz]

As of now no way we miss the playoffs. No friggin way. Honestly, I think it's pretty incredible that we're about as good as New York despite them paying $15M in lux tax and us being $2M under the cap.

[benhillboy]

All of this just means tune in to the season next year. It's gonna be a fun ride with much more drama and comedy than the Lakers provided. Every time the Nets lose to a non-contender it will be a zoo. I'm not even anxious for football anymore. I'm counting down till Oct. 29. These preseason rankings cannot account for injuries, which makes them pretty much useless. Hell, we faired better than most pundits predicted last year and we trotted out 29 different starting lineups. 29.

Edited July 31, 2013 by benhillboy