NCAA = Hypocrites....

[Diesel]

The statement said there was no evidence that Manziel received payment for signing autographs.

The NCAA and A&M agreed on the one-half suspension because Manziel violated NCAA bylaw 12.5.2.1, an NCAA representative confirmed. The rule says student-athletes cannot permit their names or likenesses to be used for commercial purposes, including to advertise, recommend or promote sales of commercial products, or accept payment for the use of their names or likenesses.

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I'm not Texas A&M fan, BUT....

NCAA can make money off of the players, but the players can't make money off of themselves?

Johnny Manziel will never be this popular... But he can't make a dime off of his Jersey but the NCAA can?

More importantly.. No evidence was found against him receiving payments for autographs, but he received a 1/2 game suspension.

Funny. TAMU plays Bama in week 3 of the season. NCAA wants this game to be big money. Can't suspend him for too long, he has to get his timing down before the big game.

Now If I remember correctly, Dez Bryant did much less and got thebook thrown at him?

Oklahoma State wide receiver Dez Bryant has been ruled ineligible for violating an NCAA bylaw, the school announced Wednesday.

Bryant, an All-American who is ranked ninth overall on Mel Kiper Jr.'s most recent Big Board, was ruled ineligible after lying to the NCAA when he was asked if he had visited Deion Sanders' home and had worked out with him.

Oklahoma State is expected to file a formal appeal as soon as Thursday.

"We are certainly disappointed, but we are moving forward as we would with any challenge during the season," coach Mike Gundy said, according to the university.

A person close to the situation said Bryant will tell the NCAA in seeking an appeal of his ineligibility that he did in fact visit Sanders' home in Texas in May, that he jogged with him at a training facility and that they had lunch, for which he paid.

Bryant is planning to fly or drive to Indianapolis to tell the NCAA his story as soon as Monday, the source said. Sanders, with whom Bryant will say he had a personal relationship, told the NCAA that he had visited with Bryant.

So here's where I'm at.

Athletes should sell their merchandise and have brokers put it in an escrow fund and tell the hypocritical NCAA to kick rocks.

[Diesel]

Let's not forget that Manziel and his lawyer agreed to this instead of fighting it. The issue of the NCAA and their regulations being messed up is secondary to Johnny basically admitting to this being a fair settlement based on evidence and accusations.Arguing that a player should be able to profit off of their likeness is one thing. But claiming this ruling is ridiculous is another thing and I do not agree with that. Johnny was more than likely in the wrong, the evidence may or may not have been there and that is not something I can comment on. However, Johnny accepting the penalty instead of fighting it tells me there is a positive probability the NCAA would have been able to suspend him for more. So he took it because under the current rules it was the best outcome for him.

Well, let's separate. Here are some predictions:

IF TAMU is not in the SEC, Johnny gets about 3 games.

or

IF TAMU played BAMA in the second game, Johnny doesn't get a suspension.

I just get the feeling that the NCAA was opportunistic based on who TAMU played as to what the suspension would be. Dez Bryant was suspended for the whole year for eating a hamburger with Deion. Manziel signed 4400 articles and gave them to brokers and he got a 1/2 game suspension.

You know who should be mad? OSU...

The NCAA hit Ohio State with a one-year bowl ban and additional penalties Tuesday for violations that started with eight players taking a total of $14,000 in cash and tattoos in exchange for jerseys, rings and other Buckeyes memorabilia.

I love the SEC and think that there's nothing that stands up to SEC football, but it's evident that there's two rule books being used. Manziel is SEC and the darling of the league so he gets this slap on the wrist. The Buckeyes get a yearlong suspension including a bowl ban. Same crime.

[AHF]

The NCAA should have nailed Manziel for allowing the NCAA to make money off his name and likeness through jersey sales. The amount of money Manziel is letting Texas A&M and the NCAA generate off his commercial likeness might rank in the 7 digits. That sounds like grounds for a longer suspension to me.

[HawkItus]

It is crazy with the double standards.......T. Pryor, D. Bryant > Cam Newton, J. Manziel

[Diesel]

The NCAA should have nailed Manziel for allowing the NCAA to make money off his name and likeness through jersey sales. The amount of money Manziel is letting Texas A&M and the NCAA generate off his commercial likeness might rank in the 7 digits. That sounds like grounds for a longer suspension to me.

I'm not sure if your being sarcastic or what but the NCAA basically said to Manziel, we can make money off of your name and likeness but you can't. That is what is not fair. Moreover, they parade these players around like slaves and do make Billions from TV contracts, Bowl games, etc... and the players are forced to be a part of this corrupt system.

[AHawks89]

How about AJ Green?

[EazyRoc]

This is why I don't get how anyone can defend the NCAA. What they are doing is wrong. I get the universities themselves using the funds generated to prop up other athletic programs, but to tell an adult he can't make money and a scholarship, meal plan, and a damn dorm is all you need is not right.

[AHF]

The really interesting question is what the world looks like if suddenly the players can make money off their likeness. It isn't easy to foresee anything resembling the college sports system that we have known for all these years yet the difference between how NCAA coaches are treated and how the players are treated is tough to swallow.

[Diesel]

You have to see the slavery and hypocrisy here.

The NCAA says that players can't make money off of their own likeness. It's a violation. They are student-athletes.

OK...

If I go to any of these universities and find any scholarship student, about what percentage of them have a part-time job? How many scholarship students are tutors for MONEY? How many scholarship students go on paid summer internships?

In these cases, you have students who are receiving money in the form of scholarship and are still able to promote themselves for money.

Troy Smith is a former Heisman trophy winner. From week to week he had dominate performances on the field. During that time, he couldn't make a dime off of his own name. Troy never really made it as a NFL player. Now, there's no money to be made off of his name and likeness. IN what other part of the world does a person become great and is denied the ability to capitalize off of his greatness.

Troy Smith isn't alone, there are several players who have the same story.

[Diesel]

D, no one ever forced these student athletes to attend school on a scholarship. No one. This is not slavery and I strongly believe you are attacking the wrong entity.

Be pissed about the NFL for putting labor restrictions on their (potential) employees. The NFL forces players to be 3 years out of high school with no NFL-sponsored minor league entity. All other major sports in the USA have major league sponsored minor leagues. For all intents and purposes, the NFL does not allow any opportunity for someone to enter their league outside of NCAA Football.

If we had a legitimate minor league system for football that allowed athletes to be professionals instead of amateurs, then all these problems go away because someone like a Troy Smith who willfully chose Ohio State over a professional league cannot complain about not getting paid. He would have known the pros and cons before signing. As is, Troy Smith never had that option and so we continue to have this debate about the NCAA needing to pay athletes. But it is not the NCAA's fault that there are no other minor leagues! Blame the NFL for free-riding off of the NCAA. Or call it collusion. At the end of the day, I think you can recognize that all the arguments against the NCAA can be remedied by forming a professional minor league for football. Whether this is a new entity OR just a changing of the NCAA is actually a secondary argument. So let's get the primary argument through and then worry about how to remedy this.

And I do not think that these student athletes are gaining nothing (payment in form of money is not the only way to increase the value of an asset/your labor). For a simple revealed preference argument, look at college baseball players. There are players out there who are drafted, offered a signing bonus, and still choose to play in college. Why? Well, the why does not matter. What really matters is they are willfully choosing to forgo $X in order to play college baseball. That determines that the benefits of playing college baseball are greater than the $X earned in the minor leagues. Sounds like the paycheck for these athletes may be $0, but the actual benefits they receive is much greater. This is one reason I do not like the "they aren't paid!" argument.

(I certainly do not see many people crying *as much* about lost wages for a John Wall or a Kevin Durant or a Shabazz Muhammad or a Brandon Jennings. Oh wait, Jennings did not lose wages because he chose to play outside of the NCAA. Good for him.)

Fanatic, I do blame the NFL too. The hypocrisy though is that Manziel (and I'm not a fan) is prosecuted for selling his likeness and name.. whereas the NCAA does it freely and makes money.... in the form of jerseys, hats, TV contracts, etc... The NCAA is just as responsible for prostituting these guys as the NFL is. IN fact, I wouldn't be surprised if the NCAA pays a price to the NFL to not start a minor leagues. Just like the NBA and age limits. I know in my heart that the NCAA machine was really behind the age limit in basketball. The NBA can develop players better than the NCAA, however, without the stars, the NCAA have no madness in March.

[Diesel]

What other option do they have fanatic? How many walk-ons with no college experience does the NFL take? That too is collusion. The NCAA acts like a large apprenticeship program for the NFL. One that is required to get the job. That is an illegal hiring practice. Just the same as if you applied for a job and before you could get the job you had to work in an apprentice program and pay for every week you worked there. Then at the end of the program, you may or may not get the job. That's a Federal Crime and the relationship between the NCAA and the NFL is no different.

[Admin]

Diesel it's not the same thing as getting a job in the real world and you know it. How many guys are actually talented enough and physically developed enough to make it in the NFL without playing college ball? And you want to talk about fair? College is meant for getting an education and a lot of kids who should be getting academic scholarships won't get in because of scholarships that athletes who have no business in college for anything other than athletics are getting them. Guys like Vince Young who could barely write his own name gets a college scholarship while some other kid has to find a way to pay himself or go to a smaller school that he can afford. College athletics is a privilege and these guys should appreciate what they have because there are hundreds of thousands of people out there who'd kill to be in their place.

[EazyRoc]

Diesel that is my point. There is no other option for NFL prospects except for the NCAA. The NFL needs to stop free riding and form their own minor league. If that happens, then these NCAA "issues" go away. But I don't find them to be much of an issue. The student athletes signed the scholarship knowing they were subject to the NCAA regulations. So they need to adhere and understand they do not get a paycheck.

The only problem with that is like you say. They have no other option if they are good enough and want to compete professionally. If they had a minor league option, it woukdnt be a viable issue anymore. At least in basketball, high school players can play overseas professionally. Baseball has the minors..

[AHF]

What other option do they have fanatic? How many walk-ons with no college experience does the NFL take? That too is collusion. The NCAA acts like a large apprenticeship program for the NFL. One that is required to get the job. That is an illegal hiring practice. Just the same as if you applied for a job and before you could get the job you had to work in an apprentice program and pay for every week you worked there. Then at the end of the program, you may or may not get the job. That's a Federal Crime and the relationship between the NCAA and the NFL is no different.

I think you are way overstating what is legal and illegal in this post. The NFL bargained rules are legal. Employers that require completed apprenticeships are legal. Heck, doctors have to legally finish what you could call "apprenticeship" programs that they pay for every week you work there and there isn't anything illegal about that. Lawyers have to graduate from an accredited school and pass the bar, etc. There are a ton of jobs where you can't be considered without some form of schooling, apprenticeship, etc.

The group that is at risk legally isn't the NFL -- it is the NCAA.

[Admin]

I think you are way overstating what is legal and illegal in this post. The NFL bargained rules are legal. Employers that require completed apprenticeships are legal. Heck, doctors have to legally finish what you could call "apprenticeship" programs that they pay for every week you work there and there isn't anything illegal about that. Lawyers have to graduate from an accredited school and pass the bar, sell their soul, etc. There are a ton of jobs where you can't be considered without some form of schooling, apprenticeship, etc.

The group that is at risk legally isn't the NFL -- it is the NCAA.

Amended

[AHF]

Amended

I thought that went without saying!

[AHF]

When a lawfirm states: "you must have a law degree and pass the bar" I think that is a different standard than the NFL tacitly saying "you need to have played in the NCAA". A lawyer has many different options for obtaining a law degree from a cost standpoint. Just looking at a quick listing: http://www.lawschooltransparency.com/reform/projects/Non-Discounted-Cost/ there appears to be a fairly wide range of options. There does not seem to be any price collusion from this side of things. And if we think about scholarships/financial aid/stipends/assistantships as a way to make prices negative, there does not seem to be price collusion between schools there. The amount for scholarships to law school still vary and schools do not get together and claim to only offer a certain amount. The Ivy Leagues at one time attempted to do this with Tuition, which lasted for a while. Eventually the Federal Courts intervened and shot down their collusive behavior for being anti-competitive. Of course, the Ivys were all like "hey man, no we didn't do this! but we will sign a document saying that we will not do this..." http://articles.latimes.com/1991-05-23/news/mn-3080_1_ivy-league-universities

When we look at costs for a student-athlete, these are collectively negotiated by the NCAA schools ($0 cost) with no athletes at the negotiation table. So the NFL, in my mind, is implicitly forcing their apprentices into a market that is non-competitive from a cost standpoint. Legally, there may be a way to claim more blame on the NCAA or NFL, but practically both are at fault.

One way to remedy this is to make the NCAA more competitive, which is to say there should not be price collusion. Giving stipends to student-athletes does not actually solve this unless the stipends have no limit on them. If you are allowing $500 monthly stipends for student-athletes, then it is still price collusion! So that does not even solve this issue.

Everything you are arguing seems directed at the NCAA rather than the NFL.

When the Ivy League schools got nailed for collusion, no employer that only hired Ivy League grads was in trouble -- only the schools. The NFL can require almost anything when it is collectively bargained without exposure for violation of anti-trust laws. The collective bargaining shields the NFL from exposure (age restrictions, wage restrictions, etc.) but doesn't give any protection to the colleges that feed into the NFL. They are on their own.

[AHF]

The first problem I see is defining the revenue pool. Beyond the problem that the NBA and NFL don't start with a raw gross revenue number, they don't assign the salary cap team by team so that the Yankees owe a ton of money to every player while the Devil Rays owe much less. You pool all the money and come up with a common number to all schools. Once you pool all the schools together in college sports, you will come up with very different numbers than by cherry-picking the most lucrative schools. Buzz Bissinger the Pulitzer winning journalist and author of Friday Night Lights claims that college football loses money in the net and loses money at most schools.

http://gothamist.com/2012/05/07/buzz_bissinger_college_football_is.php

I suspect that isn't what you are looking at, but I also expect there are a half a dozen significant problems with this rather than just one or two.