NFL QB top ten...

[jy23]

I watched the game sir. That was the only game I was turning to when I wasn't watching Atlanta. How did Cam not play bad? You sai he's the most talented qb in the game and yet your satisfied with what he did yesterday? 2 trips inside the redzone in the 4th quarter (although he didn't do anything to get there, the bills fumbled and threw am interception on 2 consecutive possessions to give Carolina the ball in the redzone) and you can't get one touchdown when you need it. And yet you give the ball to a rookie with 1:38 left on the clock and he drives his team down for a touchdown...Cam can't get it done. I don't know how many ways I can say it.

[Admin]

How was that a subject change? Who denied Seattle having a good defense? The title of this thread is top 10 QBS!!! So I asked a question about a qb and I'm changing the subject? You said cam played bad bc of Seattle...ok....but y did he play bad this week? And now it's the coach....and next week it's going to be his teammates...then the owner....then the fans....then his barber is going to mess up his hairline and obstruct his vision. Stop it man, Cam can't get it done. The falcons ran for 36 yards yesterday, 6 starters got hurt, going up against one of the top pass rushing teams in the league...but Matt Ryan found a way to win the game...making plays when it mattered. Something Cam has not done. EXCUSES EXCUSES EXCUSES

Don't forget that before the season Cam blamed Rob Chudzinski for their offensive failures last year. Right about now it seems they're begging for Chud to come back. At some point Cam has to be accountable for being a mediocre starting QB.

[jy23]

That's a good point, I forgot about Snelling and am less worried about him as we do well against power backs. We don't really play tight man or bump and run coverage so I doubt we'll play tight on those screens and if that's what you guys do then you'll probably be successful with them. Our DBs all tackle really well and they're fast but for whatever reason they tend to have them line up 5-7 yards off the line and I suspect they'll do that with Julio for fear of his speed. Expect to see the same type of offense on the other side of the ball, which Mike Wallace getting short passes and bubble screens and a few shots deep as that's exactly what we did vs Indy. We'll also throw a lot of outs to Brian Hartline, which are almost gimmies as one of the best route runners in the game and is always open on those routes. We'll use Brandon Gibson and Charles Clay to threaten the seam and keep the safeties honest and if you don't respect them, either guy could easily have a 100 yard day. This will definitely not be the same Miami team that the Falcons are used to seeing so I expect a really good game and apparently the linesmakers do too as I've read Miami is a 2 point favorite, meaning they consider the Falcons to be 1 point better.

If Decoud doesn't pick up his play the middle of the field might be wide open for you all to attack. WillyMo picked his play up last week and layed a major hit on a tight end yesterday (if you haven't seen it I suggest you go look it up...thing of beauty). I'm very confident in our rookies holdin it down on the outside so it's gonna be about he middle of the field. If I knew that roddy would be 100% for this game I would be way more confident but bc I'm not sure about him I guess it's really a toss up

[Admin]

If Decoud doesn't pick up his play the middle of the field might be wide open for you all to attack. WillyMo picked his play up last week and layed a major hit on a tight end yesterday (if you haven't seen it I suggest you go look it up...thing of beauty). I'm very confident in our rookies holdin it down on the outside so it's gonna be about he middle of the field. If I knew that roddy would be 100% for this game I would be way more confident but bc I'm not sure about him I guess it's really a toss up

Funny but Decoud is probably my favorite player on the Falcons (as an outsider) as it seemed like every time I saw a Falcons game or highlight last year he was making a play.

I'm sure your rookie CDs are playing well but I guarantee you that Hartline has 6-8 catches for 70-100 yards at the end of the game. I don't know if it's because he's white or whatever but DBs always underestimate his speed and his route running. So far he has 14 catches for 182 yards through 2 games and could have had a lot more if we kept going his way. He's not going to just run away from a DB as he needs to set them up with his moves but he'll get the 7-12 yard out or comeback all day long. Wallace will get the same types of plays that Julio gets, assuming the way we used him against the Colts is how we're going to use him going forward. Against the Browns we just sent him deep, but I don't see that happening again. Either way he's going to require safety help as you can't leave a DB on him one on one for fear of him going deep. Over the past 3 years he has more 25+ yard TDs than any receiver in the game.

I don't know if I want to see another safety lay a big hit after that cheap shot play DJ Swearinger put on Dustin Keller to end his season and maybe his career in the preseason.

I definitely think that if Roddy was 100% you guys would win this game but with it being our home opener and us being 2-0 and finally having an offense that can score some points, I think it's gonna be a close one. Especially seeing as you guys didn't get too much pressure on the QB in this past game and that is where Tannehill is still weak is when he's pressured up the middle.

[jy23]

Decoud is one of my favorite players too but so far he's been the weak link in the secondary. The WillyMo hit definitely wasn't a cheap shot...wrapped the guy up by his legs in mid air and straight body slammed him....BEAUTIFUL LOL!!!! Wallace will get help over the top I'm sure but Hartline will have his work cut out with this secondary. We shall see thi

[jy23]

So diesel no response?

[Diesel]

I watched the game sir. That was the only game I was turning to when I wasn't watching Atlanta. How did Cam not play bad? You sai he's the most talented qb in the game and yet your satisfied with what he did yesterday? 2 trips inside the redzone in the 4th quarter (although he didn't do anything to get there, the bills fumbled and threw am interception on 2 consecutive possessions to give Carolina the ball in the redzone) and you can't get one touchdown when you need it. And yet you give the ball to a rookie with 1:38 left on the clock and he drives his team down for a touchdown...Cam can't get it done. I don't know how many ways I can say it.

I challenge that bolded statement. Especially since Cam was my 10th rank QB of current QBs...

Moreover, what Cam has is a lack of talent around him. Period. Look at how pedestrian Tom Brady looks this year. Lack of talent around him. When you talk about Cam, he has only one receiver to throw it to and no blocking. He was sacked 6 freaking times Sunday. Brandon Lefell, the guy you all said is as good as Golden Tate or Sydney Rice dropped a plethora of passes on Sunday. Then the coach is the master of the FG. You're right, Cam can't get it done... WITH THAT. Joe Nameth, Joe Montana, Steve Young, Brett Farve, and John Elway couldn't get it done with that.

[jy23]

You had Cam ranked 10th bc he had no weapons according to you but he and Eli were the most talented on the list...are you seriously gonna act like you didn't say that? That's the whole reason we're having this discussion!!!! Moreover what I pointed out from the game has nothing to do with the talent around him....Tom Bradyake look pedestrian but the pats are 2-0 and the panthers are 0-2. The same buffalo team that Cam just lost to Tom made a drive at the end of their game against them and scored the winning touchdown...could Cam do that? Nope. 2 possessions that the other team GAVE to you in the redzone in the 4th quarter in a tight game and you do nothin with it. Keep blaming everybody else man, while other QBS are making plays cam is making excuses. Steve smith, Greg Olsen, an deangelo Williams are more than enough to score ONE touchdown from inside the redzone in the 4th quarter. And also I said Lafells numbers were comparable to both guys...which they were.

[Diesel]

You had Cam ranked 10th bc he had no weapons according to you but he and Eli were the most talented on the list...are you seriously gonna act like you didn't say that? That's the whole reason we're having this discussion!!!! Moreover what I pointed out from the game has nothing to do with the talent around him....Tom Bradyake look pedestrian but the pats are 2-0 and the panthers are 0-2. The same buffalo team that Cam just lost to Tom made a drive at the end of their game against them and scored the winning touchdown...could Cam do that? Nope. 2 possessions that the other team GAVE to you in the redzone in the 4th quarter in a tight game and you do nothin with it. Keep blaming everybody else man, while other QBS are making plays cam is making excuses. Steve smith, Greg Olsen, an deangelo Williams are more than enough to score ONE touchdown from inside the redzone in the 4th quarter. And also I said Lafells numbers were comparable to both guys...which they were.

Context is everything. You want to separate a statement from a thought. I said, IN THIS LEAGUE, THE QB WITH THE MOST WEAPONS WINS. The truth is that without the weapons, we will never know how good Brees, Cam, or Eli really is... so the point is moot until they get the weapons. You're trying to make a "could be" into a definitely is... why? However, do you deny that Cam has a good QB body? A good QB arm? Good footwork for a QB? Is Elusive?? My point then and now is that even with all those things, a QB is nothing if he has no weapons. However, you want to take all that out of context (that I placed it in) and say that I'm saying that Cam is the best QB in the game. Is this your critical thinking on display? Let me help you with this. Don't pull the one statement out without the context and this confusion won't keep up.

[Diesel]

Tom Bradyake look pedestrian but the pats are 2-0 and the panthers are 0-2.

SO Tom Brady makes the Pats 2-0 and Cam Newton makes the Panthers 0-2?

Let's say forget all the other things like Defense. Penalties. Dumb coaching decisions.... Teamwork.

So would you take Ron Rivera over Belichick?

So would you take the Panther's defense over New England's?

The Panthers are 0-2 and could easily be 2-0. The Patroits are 2-0 and could easily be 0-2. I don't think the QB positions hold all the responsibility for these results.

[jy23]

My god man...brees, and Eli never need to be in a category with Cam if you're trying to say we won't know what they are bc they don't have weapons...this can't be serious. Brees has set records and won a super bowl, Eli is a two time super bowl champion....and Cam is 13-21 so far in his career. None of this bull crap applies to anybody but Cam. You keep moving the goal posts to save Cam. We established that he's talented but I said none of that means anything when you cant get it done when it really matters. That's his problem, not that he doesn't have tools but that he's not a dependable winning qb. He folds in moments when his team needs him the most. Hell no I wouldn't take Rivera over the hoodie...HELL YES I would take the panthers defense and their offensive weapons over what the patriots have right now. And you just made my point for me by saying that the pats and panthers both could be 0-2 right now....I gave you a direct example of what I'm talking about with Brady leading his team down for a victory and Cam coming up short but you consistently blame everybody around him. The thing is great QBS overcome the shortcomings of the guys around them....they make other guys better. Cam sure as hell doesn't do that. Example...you're a falcons fan right? Ok, mike Vicks first year starting we went to the playoffs. Please tell me what was better about the 2002 falcons than the panthers that Cam newton plays for.

[Diesel]

My god man...brees, and Eli never need to be in a category with Cam if you're trying to say we won't know what they are bc they don't have weapons...this can't be serious. Brees has set records and won a super bowl, Eli is a two time super bowl champion....and Cam is 13-21 so far in his career. None of this bull crap applies to anybody but Cam. You keep moving the goal posts to save Cam. We established that he's talented but I said none of that means anything when you cant get it done when it really matters. That's his problem, not that he doesn't have tools but that he's not a dependable winning qb. He folds in moments when his team needs him the most.Hell no I wouldn't take Rivera over the hoodie...HELL YES I would take the panthers defense and their offensive weapons over what the patriots have right now. And you just made my point for me by saying that the pats and panthers both could be 0-2 right now....I gave you a direct example of what I'm talking about with Brady leading his team down for a victory and Cam coming up short but you consistently blame everybody around him. The thing is great QBS overcome the shortcomings of the guys around them....they make other guys better. Cam sure as hell doesn't do that. Example...you're a falcons fan right? Ok, mike Vicks first year starting we went to the playoffs. Please tell me what was better about the 2002 falcons than the panthers that Cam newton plays for.

Brady led his team to a victory after the defense got him the ball. This past Sunday, instead of getting Cam the Ball, the Panthers defense gave the Bills 4 fresh downs in the red zone. Kyle Arrington did more for the Pats than Brady did against the Bills. Luke Kuechley hand delievered a victory for the Bills. Yet... you want to talk about QBs? Funny.

[Diesel]

The thing is great QBS overcome the shortcomings of the guys around them....they make other guys better.

Joe Flacco This year.

Tom Brady This year.

Drew Brees Last year.

Aaron Rodgers 2008-2010.

Don't make me laugh!!

[jy23]

Wtf? First of all joe flacco isn't elite to me but he's still 1-1. Tom Brady is 2-0, drew brees had the worst defense in the history of the nfl...played without his head coach and still managed to win the same amount of games Cam did in his best year. Aaron Rodgers? Are you serious? This can't be real....2008 ok that's fine, but 2009 they went 11-5 and 2010 they won the Super Bowl with Aaron having a qb rating over 100 in both those years. This is getting beyond ridiculous. Stop trying to being other guys in this argument bc you're failing miserably. And let me say this again bc I guess either you didn't read it or you didn't watch the game...Carolina's DEFENSE GAVE CAM THE BALL ON CONSECUTIVE POSSESSIONS IN THE 4th QUARTER IN THE RED ZONE AND CAM DIDN'T DO A DAMN THING WITH IT. Tom drove his team down the field and won the game. POINT BLANK PERIOD....what exactly are you missing about that? Carolina's defense has played well in these 2 games and yet you're trying to place blame on them? Luke kuechly has played out if his mind so far but they lost bc of him right....ok diesel.

[Diesel]

drew brees had the worst defense in the history of the nfl...played without his head coach and still managed to win the same amount of games Cam did in his best year

"The thing is great QBS overcome the shortcomings of the guys around them....they make other guys better." -jy23

QED buddy.

[Admin]

"The thing is great QBS overcome the shortcomings of the guys around them....they make other guys better." -jy23

QED buddy.

Why is Cam not able to do the same?

[Diesel]

Why is Cam not able to do the same?

That's my point. No QB can overcome a lack of talent. JY23 wants to argue that pedestrian Tom Brady is so great because his team wins. His team wins this year have been on the back of their defense. It's easy to sustain a drive when you get the ball in the other team's territory and you have arguably the best offensive line in the game.

MY Point is that IT TAKES WEAPONS for any QB to win. You take away a QB's weapons and that statement by JY23 becomes laughable.

Football isn't basketball whereby one player can make or break a team. Football is football where there are two sides of the ball and it requires both sides doing something to be a consistent winner. Even Johnny Football and his greatness couldn't win the game this past Saturday because he doesn't play defense. Jy just wants everybody to believe that the QB sweats muchismo and it makes the defense better, it makes the line block better, it makes the receivers catch balls that come there way... B.S.

[Admin]

That's my point. No QB can overcome a lack of talent. JY23 wants to argue that pedestrian Tom Brady is so great because his team wins. His team wins this year have been on the back of their defense. It's easy to sustain a drive when you get the ball in the other team's territory and you have arguably the best offensive line in the game.

MY Point is that IT TAKES WEAPONS for any QB to win. You take away a QB's weapons and that statement by JY23 becomes laughable.

Football isn't basketball whereby one player can make or break a team. Football is football where there are two sides of the ball and it requires both sides doing something to be a consistent winner. Even Johnny Football and his greatness couldn't win the game this past Saturday because he doesn't play defense. Jy just wants everybody to believe that the QB sweats muchismo and it makes the defense better, it makes the line block better, it makes the receivers catch balls that come there way... B.S.

Great players make players around them better. Cam doesn't make anyone around him better. Of course you have to have weapons but Cam has plenty of weapons to win with and a damned good defense, who are much better than New England BTW.

[jy23]

Diesel are you seriously going to compare a situation like what brees went through last year to what Cam is going through now? How many times has a head coach been suspended for a year? How often is a defense historically bad? That was a once in a lifetime type of season and still he won the same amount of games that Cam did in his best year. Not going to address anything else I said huh? You keep talking about what toms defense did for him but did you watch the Carolina game? If not go read my post again....I made it very clear for you that cams defense did everything they could for him but he just didn't come through. And yet Tom drove down the field and won the game...Cam didn't even have to drive the offense anywhere, the defense gave him the ball in the redzone on 2 consecutive drives. Be real man. Youre better than this

[Diesel]

Great players make players around them better. Cam doesn't make anyone around him better. Of course you have to have weapons but Cam has plenty of weapons to win with and a damned good defense, who are much better than New England BTW.

That sounds good, but for football, that's just not true. That's why you have training camp and that's why players get cut. For if all it required was a great football player, then you'd find one of those and it wouldn't matter who played with him. However, that's very simplistic thinking. The truth is that Football, requires team building. Starting in the trenches... working it's way to the skilled positions. Cam, Brady, Brees, nor Rodgers can make their offensive line better. That's straight Bull Dol. Either the offensive line is good or they are not. IF they are not good, the QB will be sacked. If the QB is sacked often, it doesn't matter how great the QB is, he will not win. It has been proven that the way you beat Brady is touch him. Therefore, NE always makes sure that they have one of the best offensive lines. IF your proclamation that great players make players around them better were true, you wouldn't need a better line.

Secondly Dol.. (being a Miami fan, you should know this) weapons are not always Specialty players like backs and receivers. Everything on offense depends on the offensive line. Mario Williams sacked Cam 4.5 times Sunday and had 8 hurries aside from that. That's 1 freaking guy. Cam was sacked 6 times and hurried 12. If you drop back to pass 38 times and are either sacked or hurried 18 of those, what the hell do you think your passing is going to look like?