Official Game Thread: Hawks - HEAT

[DJlaysitup]

Personally, I could not be more pleased that we kept the Kicks out of the playoffs and now have more games to enjoy!

Many may have misconstrued my avatar - it's actually a tribute to the toughness of our Hawks and their willingness to "grind it out". That is what the tank treads represent. The gun represents our ability to accurately fire away from long distance and the armor represents our ability to keep up the fight despite obstacles.

Bud is our Tank Commander.

GO HAWKS !!

[BrazilianHawk]

Sorry, Mr, Tanker. Don't feel bad, there's always next year...

[AHF]

Oh, I'm sorry should I have said a 25% chance? Would that be better for your cherry picked position? Then maybe we are more comparable to scratch off tickets.

Same issues apply as before.

Very comparable to lottery odds. This challenges your reputation as being math inclined but we're better tabling this discussion when you won't even talk about the value you see in a #8 seed. After that, we are rehashing your belief that a team best tools for a championship by being a margin playoff team and mine that you need a stud pick. We've done that dance before and I'd rather focus on the playoffs since that is the bed we made.

[AHF]

Sorry, Mr, Tanker. Don't feel bad, there's always next year...

Other than the fact that this year's draft has much better talent and we have way too much talent under contract to tank and way too little to contend, it will be exactly the same as if we had tanked this year.

Edited April 13, 2014 by AHF

[AHF]

I've tried to engage tankers in a discussion that involves rational decision making and tangible goals. They always go nowhere, so why bother? All I get in response is cherry picked statistics and ignorant views on the landscape of the NBA. Hows about another discussion on previous champions that involve outdated CBAs? Or wishy-washy statements on free agency movement that bounce back and forth between the definition of a superstar that depends on the context of your argument?

Apparently, tanking involves the inclusion of future performance to measure its impact. But looking at the team right now? Oh, the only benefit is *this season's playoff appearance* and does not include any future performance. Thanks for the relevant discussion and framing the current team as an abject failure. I'm sure my math reputation is irreparably damage for...I'm not sure what at this moment. How will I ever be able to recover from this?

What I liked about those discussions is that your alternative was nothing. You criticized tanking but had no path to a championship to offer.

It didn't advance the ball very far. In the absence of an actual alternative, I see no choice but to agree to disagree.

I didn't frame this team as an absolute failure, BTW, I have said they are comparable to how they have been almost every season in Atlanta - they can win enough to land a playoff spot in the East but have no chance at a championship. I said the value of that profile depends on your ambition.

You still haven't actually said anything positive about an 8 seed in your multiple posts here which is somewhat surprising for someone who is so pleased with it, except it is so reminiscent of the prior tanking discussion - criticism of tanking but no argument for why an 8 seed is a good outcome.

[Sothron]

Criticizing the lack of an alternative to defend your crack pipe plan. Wow. Good argument!

Again a side tracked discussion. And a false dichotomy. I don't post my opinions on players or potential acquisitions on this site anymore, it doesn't do anything. Who gives a crap what I think. The only reason why I respond to tanking is because of the utter lack of intelligence or formulated arguments from tankers. Add in the blatantly wrong statistics that tankers throw out there and of course I will tell them why their plan lacks insight.

Also, tankers are also a rare bread that think the only way to success is through the draft. Flawed. But whatever.

There is not one poster on this side that has suggested tanking is the only way to succeed. There are however the majority of educated posters on this site that know you need a superstar to win a title and the only realistic chance we have of getting one is through the draft.

[AHF]

Also, tankers are also a rare bread that think the only way to success is through the draft. Flawed. But whatever.

Love seeing this after posting earlier on this thread my preferred options for the team last season:

* Option 1 - Get an elite FA (Howard or Paul) or two.

* Option 2 - If you miss on all the elite FAs, jump into the draft by playing youth and holding on only to the vets with a long-term future with the team. Keep max cap space for 2014 summer FA.

So option 1 was to not go in the draft but to go after FA's but the only way to success for "tankers" in your mind is the draft?

The irony of you throwing out this sad red herring in the same post where you talk about false dichotomies is just amusing.

[AHF]

Please, elaborate on what Tankers are proposing. Are they saying that one can get a superstar through free agency? Trades? OH, well if that is what they are saying...then they aren't a Tanker.

No, my characterization is correct. Tankers imply the only way to attract a superstar (and that you *need* a superstar, per the most convenient definition to your argument at the time) is through the draft. So you have to tank.

AHF, when you engage in an argument on/for tanking you are then a Tanker. You aren't always a Tanker. But I guess, if you think I am implying that you are always a Tanker then one could see what I wrote about Tankers as a red herring.

That is fair, but I will tell you there are very few tankers on this site by that definition - both myself and Sothron (for example) excluded. I interpreted your comment as directed towards me since it was in reply to my post but it clearly doesn't fit.

I can see all three of those lines leading to acquiring the key talent for a contender - draft, trade or free agency. My issue is that I don't think the Hawks are like the Lakers - a team that can use attracting elite free agents as a reliable strategy. I also don't think we will have the assets to pull off a trade for a franchise player without some lottery picks in our trade arsenal ala the trades for Harden, Carmelo, Deron, etc. Absent a home run in free agency, it seems like we need to acquire some lottery assets through trade of our players (to the extent we can find someone willing to flip lottery pick(s) for them ala the Otis Thorpe Det/Mem trade), the taking on of undesirable contracts (ala the Ben Gordon Det/Charlotte trade) or the old-fashioned way of having a bad enough record to land a valuable lottery asset or two.

I didn't see us being able to acquire another team's lottery pick this year and expected teams would hold tight onto them with this draft class. Not surprisingly, no team trade their lottery assets this year for veterans or to relieve themselves of bad contracts which was the probable outcome given the talent pool this season. This year seemed to line up particularly well with a draft run since the draft is talented and deep this year while we had an easy opportunity to put a young, losing team on the floor even with Horford (ala the Celtics with Rondo).

I still hate it that NJ got themselves turned around this year. That would have been a great win/win for the "let's compete every game even if we can't contend" crowd and the "let's get a lottery pick over a doomed playoff run" crowd.

[DatWerkk]

lol no he isn't

You don't have to take my word for it, that's the consensus opinion amongst NBA coaches and execs. I think I'll trust their opinions (and mine) over a not well thought out, unexplained contrary opinion from you, Random Message Board Guy.

[DatWerkk]

lol no he isn't

You were saying something?

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

[TheNorthCydeRises]

You were saying something?

LOL . . very good call by you. Even Pop flat out told him after Game 2 that HE ( Leonard ) was the man, and just go out there and play your game.

There were also some interesting comments in this thread concerning tanking and draft position. I may need to bookmark this thread for future reference, especially considering who we'll get at #15.