True Center you say?....huh

[Jody23]

Unless Millsap or Horford are traded, I almost agree with you 100%. One other option for Hawes ( or Kaman ) is if Ferry thinks 2015 is when might have to let Millsap go. Hawes or Kaman, signed to cheaper than 9 million a season, would be very good insurance for that.

The above is not my best case for us in free agency; but it is the only way I can see any justification in signing either Hawes or Kaman. And yes I do think Kaman has something left in the tank.

I just think the Hawks adding Lucas and getting Horford back is the most likely scenario. I can also see them bringing Elton back on another one year deal. Just don't forses alot of change at the 5 spot next year.

[Guest]

Someone's obsession with Hawes is becoming like that OJ Mayo obsession :-)

@Dolfan23 can we get ye ole switcheroo for Hawes.

[Admin]

Someone's obsession with Hawes is becoming like that OJ Mayo obsession :-)

@Dolfan23 can we get ye ole switcheroo for Hawes.

You mean like we had with Hold the Mayo? I think that was it.

[JTB]

Someone's obsession with Hawes is becoming like that OJ Mayo obsession :-)

@Dolfan23 can we get ye ole switcheroo for Hawes.

Nice shot at me...but look I can come up with good reasons to bring hawes here. When Diesel wanted oj mayo, he wanted him at pg here and at that time he had never been used primarily as pg until the mavs tried him there one season.

My reasons for wanting hawes makes more sense than those who want a so called true center.

But I'll be honest at first I want hawes to start which is clearly not a smart move now I want him as backup primarily and then put in the starting unit against the so called true centers like Howard, Hibbert, etc.

Maybe I will get off the hawes bandwagon once someone shows me up and tells me how terrible of a fit he would be. But the truth is no one can.

[bird_dirt]

Nice shot at me...but look I can come up with good reasons to bring hawes here. When Diesel wanted oj mayo, he wanted him at pg here and at that time he had never been used primarily as pg until the mavs tried him there one season.

My reasons for wanting hawes makes more sense than those who want a so called true center.

But I'll be honest at first I want hawes to start which is clearly not a smart move now I want him as backup primarily and then put in the starting unit against the so called true centers like Howard, Hibbert, etc.

Maybe I will get off the hawes bandwagon once someone shows me up and tells me how terrible of a fit he would be. But the truth is no one can.

Diesel didn't cream over Mayo, NBASupes did.

[Buzzard]

I just think the Hawks adding Lucas and getting Horford back is the most likely scenario. I can also see them bringing Elton back on another one year deal. Just don't forses alot of change at the 5 spot next year.

I agree man. With a healthy Horford to go along with Millsap: the Center, Power Forward and PG positions are the least of my concerns.

[JTB]

Without creating yet another Spencer Hawes thread I will put my comments here. Lets call this one…….

JTB'S reason of wanting Spencer Hawes vs the typical hawks fans that want the so called "true center"

Reasons typical hawk fans want a true center:

The reason typical hawk fans want a so called true center like Howard, Hibbert, Perkins type is all due to wanting rim protection and rebounds. Some of you want low post scoring but there are a handful of low post scorers that are not available, therefore if we were to get the so called "true center" he will likely have his best abilities at rim protection and rebounds.

What I say about those reasons most want a true center:

First off I have come to conclusion that RIM PROTECTION is very overrated! I can stick any 7 footer under the goal and as long as he keeps his hands up, he can alter inside shots especially with horford being down there with him (LD proved that with Jason Collins!….ALTERING SHOTS DO NOT SHOW UP ON THE STAT SHEET). Now rebounding thats purely do to all out hustle, its not so much a skill, its about effort.

Have you ever thought about the other side of the ball?:

You wanting a true center doesn't do us any good on offense! Why? Because our true center will likely be limited on offense. We aren't getting Marc Gasol or Al Jefferson type centers who can score because there are only 5 or 6 out there and they aren't available.

Let me continue…..

-Your true center will clog up the lane for Teague and other slashers we add to the team

-Your true center will likely not be a great passer out of the post

-Your true center will make the other teams true center comfortable and ready for battle every game

-Your true center is not guaranteed to do better than our own al horford at the rim on defense

So why do I want Hawes? Why….do…I…want….hawes?

First off f**k hawes! If we get him then we get him. It aint about wanting hawes its about spreading the floor and making the other teams adjust to us. I want horford to remain starting center and guy like hawes off the bench. Sure hawes don't share the same overrated defense background many of you put on so called true centers but he works better with the hawks.

-hawes is weapon on offense! You guys act like we got a bonafide 20pt scorer, no the truth is, is that we don't have one and we may not get one for a while. So add to what we have and thats three 17pt scorers.

-hawes won't clog the lane up for our slashers

-hawes can do the same thing as clumsy ass hibbert and put his hands straight up at the rim! Hell bring bebe over…he can do that too but without falling

-hawes get more rebounds than hibbert and provide efficient offense.

-hawes skill set in spreading the floor would put fear in true centers cause now they are useless!

Somebody said it in an earlier post. These teams clog the lane with their so called true center and dare teams to shoot. And all of you want to get a true center to put beside the other teams true center which will work in the other teams favor?….Why I ask?

Thats why we were such a huge problem for the pacers. Rim protection is overrated! You spread that Big f**k away from the goal he all messed up! Wheres the rim protection now?! Then you guys talk about our defense and our rim protection and you act like no 7 footer except the ones you know of can put there hands straight up!

You guys mention these rebounds like you didn't see the blazers accept the challenge and beat down the overrated rockets who have arguably the best defense center in the league. Then we watch this wizards series and all I see is two so called true centers that could probably out rebound hibbert every game but can't put the damn ball in the hole.

Then some of you want a low post scorer and act like there are so many options which there aren't but want to diss me for wanting a scoring center who avgs 9 rebs and probably could protect the rim by putting his hands straight up since he's 7'1.

I know Im winning this argument so I beg for some body to come back at me!

[JTB]

Diesel didn't cream over Mayo, NBASupes did.

oh thats right!…my bad Diesel

[Buzzard]

If Hawes is chased by Ferry, it will be a long term plan to keep only one of Horford or Millsap. Teams just cannot afford to invest 8,9, 10+ million dollars into a bench player anymore. Especially a small market like ours. Kaman or someone similar at 6 million or less is a much better solution IMO....That is all I have to say on us chasing a center with our money.

[JTB]

If Hawes is chased by Ferry, it will be a long term plan to keep only one of Horford or Millsap. Teams just cannot afford to invest 8,9, 10+ million dollars into a bench player anymore. Especially a small market like ours. Kaman or someone similar at 6 million or less is a much better solution IMO....That is all I have to say on us chasing a center with our money.

Forget hawes I just want the hawks to keep someone at center that can actually drop points. My case for hawes is that he just works and a so called true center wont do anything but get in the way especially on offense.

By the way you never know, if hawes likes ATL much like sap did he may sign a 2 year contract for what he's worth.

[Buzzard]

Forget hawes I just want the hawks to keep someone at center that can actually drop points. My case for hawes is that he just works and a so called true center wont do anything but get in the way especially on offense.

By the way you never know, if hawes likes ATL much like sap did he may sign a 2 year contract for what he's worth.

It will still be to much to keep all three; which is my point. Horford 12 million, Sap 9 million, Hawes 8 or more million. That is at least 30 million invested in your power forward/center spot; and only two will be on the floor at the same time for the bulk of their minutes.

[Guest]

You mean like we had with Hold the Mayo? I think that was it.

yep

[Guest]

Without creating yet another Spencer Hawes thread I will put my comments here. Lets call this one…….

JTB'S reason of wanting Spencer Hawes vs the typical hawks fans that want the so called "true center"

Reasons typical hawk fans want a true center:

The reason typical hawk fans want a so called true center like Howard, Hibbert, Perkins type is all due to wanting rim protection and rebounds. Some of you want low post scoring but there are a handful of low post scorers that are not available, therefore if we were to get the so called "true center" he will likely have his best abilities at rim protection and rebounds.

What I say about those reasons most want a true center:

First off I have come to conclusion that RIM PROTECTION is very overrated! I can stick any 7 footer under the goal and as long as he keeps his hands up, he can alter inside shots especially with horford being down there with him (LD proved that with Jason Collins!….ALTERING SHOTS DO NOT SHOW UP ON THE STAT SHEET). Now rebounding thats purely do to all out hustle, its not so much a skill, its about effort.

Have you ever thought about the other side of the ball?:

You wanting a true center doesn't do us any good on offense! Why? Because our true center will likely be limited on offense. We aren't getting Marc Gasol or Al Jefferson type centers who can score because there are only 5 or 6 out there and they aren't available.

Let me continue…..

-Your true center will clog up the lane for Teague and other slashers we add to the team

-Your true center will likely not be a great passer out of the post

-Your true center will make the other teams true center comfortable and ready for battle every game

-Your true center is not guaranteed to do better than our own al horford at the rim on defense

So why do I want Hawes? Why….do…I…want….hawes?

First off f**k hawes! If we get him then we get him. It aint about wanting hawes its about spreading the floor and making the other teams adjust to us. I want horford to remain starting center and guy like hawes off the bench. Sure hawes don't share the same overrated defense background many of you put on so called true centers but he works better with the hawks.

-hawes is weapon on offense! You guys act like we got a bonafide 20pt scorer, no the truth is, is that we don't have one and we may not get one for a while. So add to what we have and thats three 17pt scorers.

-hawes won't clog the lane up for our slashers

-hawes can do the same thing as clumsy ass hibbert and put his hands straight up at the rim! Hell bring bebe over…he can do that too but without falling

-hawes get more rebounds than hibbert and provide efficient offense.

-hawes skill set in spreading the floor would put fear in true centers cause now they are useless!

Somebody said it in an earlier post. These teams clog the lane with their so called true center and dare teams to shoot. And all of you want to get a true center to put beside the other teams true center which will work in the other teams favor?….Why I ask?

Thats why we were such a huge problem for the pacers. Rim protection is overrated! You spread that Big f**k away from the goal he all messed up! Wheres the rim protection now?! Then you guys talk about our defense and our rim protection and you act like no 7 footer except the ones you know of can put there hands straight up!

You guys mention these rebounds like you didn't see the blazers accept the challenge and beat down the overrated rockets who have arguably the best defense center in the league. Then we watch this wizards series and all I see is two so called true centers that could probably out rebound hibbert every game but can't put the damn ball in the hole.

Then some of you want a low post scorer and act like there are so many options which there aren't but want to diss me for wanting a scoring center who avgs 9 rebs and probably could protect the rim by putting his hands straight up since he's 7'1.

I know Im winning this argument so I beg for some body to come back at me!

Might as well roll with Al at center - you get offense and defense.

[AHF]

I feel like someone never watched Dikembe if he feels that strongly that any big can clog the lane as well as another by merely holding his hands up in the air. I find the arguments about the benefits if spreading the floor more compelling but that is matchup dependent. Spreading the floor, for example, looks mmuuucchh better against the Pacers than against the Heat. Getting a true center would be great but it is a supply and demand issue as much as anything.

[capstone21]

I'm watching gortat and nene basically two true centers in a wizards starting lineup that can't get it done, yet so many want gortat....I honestly don't get why! I

31 pts and 16 rebounds for Gortat tonight

[Diesel]

Gortat renewed my love for When Big men dominate the game last night. Gortat laid the hammer down on the Pacers and spurred a rebounding margin that won the game decisively. Washington had almost as many Offensive Rebs as Indiana had Rebs. Moreover, the Heat are praying that if they get past Brooklyn, that Washington doesn't come out of the Indy series.

We on the other hand haven't had a rebounding advantage since Deke wore a Hawks Jersey. And if you remember us with Deke, there was no game that we wasn't in.

[JTB]

I feel like someone never watched Dikembe if he feels that strongly that any big can clog the lane as well as another by merely holding his hands up in the air. I find the arguments about the benefits if spreading the floor more compelling but that is matchup dependent. Spreading the floor, for example, looks mmuuucchh better against the Pacers than against the Heat. Getting a true center would be great but it is a supply and demand issue as much as anything.

No that's just how I feel about centers in today's NBA. I'm no fool...I know centers like Olajuwon, Dikembe, etc. were great defensive centers but the guys today aren't on that level.

To me the last center that was truly good at protecting the rim was Marcus camby and Howard about 3-5 years ago. Now it's overrated in my opinion when you look deep into it.

Might as well roll with Al at center - you get offense and defense.

Exactly

[Buzzard]

Gortat renewed my love for When Big men dominate the game last night. Gortat laid the hammer down on the Pacers and spurred a rebounding margin that won the game decisively. Washington had almost as many Offensive Rebs as Indiana had Rebs. Moreover, the Heat are praying that if they get past Brooklyn, that Washington doesn't come out of the Indy series.

We on the other hand haven't had a rebounding advantage since Deke wore a Hawks Jersey. And if you remember us with Deke, there was no game that we wasn't in.

Fixed:

When you lose your starting center and almost nine rebounds per game, its tough man. Now add in the fact that we have no other player on our squad, at any position, who averaged more than 5.30 rebounds per game and it becomes a glaring weakness.

SF's and SG's are difference makers on the boards. Indy is a top rebounding team not because of Hibbert and West, but because of George and Stephenson. Horford and Sap hit the boards just as good as Indy's post combo.

Quit blaming our starting post players; its our wing players and PG who are weak to just average on the glass.

[JTB]

When you lose your starting center and almost nine rebounds per game, its tough man. Now add in the fact that we have no other player on our squad, at any position, who averaged more than 5.30 rebounds per game and it becomes a glaring weakness.

SF's and SG's are difference makers on the boards. Indy is a top rebounding team not because of Hibbert and West, but because of Granger and Stephenson. Horford and Sap hit the boards just as good as Indy's post combo.

Quit blaming our starting post players; its our wing players and PG who are weak to just average on the glass.

Preach! Let them know!

FINALLY SOME DAMN KNOWLEDGE!!!

I have been trying and trying to explain that to this board but they are all still stuck on individual performances. I know it's hard to believe but we are a TEAM offense, a TEAM defense, and a TEAM rebounding unit! Like I said if you want a true center just for rebounds that's not a good reason.

If you don't mind kind sir (Buzzard) now preach to them about how teams rim protect and not just one individual! We seem to have board members that think if we get a so called true center we can let opposing players just run at the rim because we have a "rim protector"

Horford, hawes can do these same things plus more.

[Diesel]

Preach! Let them know!

FINALLY SOME DAMN KNOWLEDGE!!!

I have been trying and trying to explain that to this board but they are all still stuck on individual performances. I know it's hard to believe but we are a TEAM offense, a TEAM defense, and a TEAM rebounding unit! Like I said if you want a true center just for rebounds that's not a good reason.

If you don't mind kind sir (Buzzard) now preach to them about how teams rim protect and not just one individual! We seem to have board members that think if we get a so called true center we can let opposing players just run at the rim because we have a "rim protector"

Horford, hawes can do these same things plus more.

You see, this is the type of Inertia that I've been talking about. How Long have we tried the Al + PF formula only to find that it fails against teams with real Centers. Josh was a much better rebounding, rim protector than Sapp. Playing next to Al, Josh and Al allowed D12 Dwight Howard to make History against us. What'd he average? Some like +25 ppg average victory margin? It wasn't until we got a true Center/rim protector who could match up with him that we were able to neutralize his team. However, you want to go to war with a C/PF combo that is less athletic than what we had before and HOPE that our team defense will suffice?? There's the problem.