Comparison players thread (Amare / Kemp, Magic / Stockton / Isiah)

[Diesel]

Raw athleticism can only get you so far in this league. For Gordon, thats the only thing that's going well for him. I still don't see why he's even being considered in the top 10. What signs show that he will have great potential?

It's the Shawn Kemp effect. Raw Athleticism is really the premise of the game today. IF you can put skills with that Raw Athleticism, you have agreat player. Gordon has stuff that you can't teach. That's why he will be a top 10 pick. The question is will he be willing to learn the things you can teach? The whole world has been slowed by Josh Smith now that he's in Detroit and doing the same things..

[NBASupes]

It's the Shawn Kemp effect. Raw Athleticism is really the premise of the game today. IF you can put skills with that Raw Athleticism, you have agreat player. Gordon has stuff that you can't teach. That's why he will be a top 10 pick. The question is will he be willing to learn the things you can teach? The whole world has been slowed by Josh Smith now that he's in Detroit and doing the same things..

The closest player I seen to Kemp was Amare who was better than Kemp for a period of time. I don't see that in Gordon at all.

[Diesel]

The closest player I seen to Kemp was Amare who was better than Kemp for a period of time. I don't see that in Gordon at all.

No, I think Gordon is definitely Josh Smith like. He has that athleticism. However, Kemp was undervalued because of his late years after he put on those 50lbs. Kemp was an Athletic BEAST who could shot a set shot too. There has been no player like Kemp since Kemp... a 220 lb monster who could drive past you and dunk over you... and if you don't go out to meet him in the high post, he's put up the shot....2pts. I think Smoove had the potential but he was too soft and he would rather just shoot the shot than to go inside and risk being touched.

[NBASupes]

No, I think Gordon is definitely Josh Smith like. He has that athleticism. However, Kemp was undervalued because of his late years after he put on those 50lbs. Kemp was an Athletic BEAST who could shot a set shot too. There has been no player like Kemp since Kemp... a 220 lb monster who could drive past you and dunk over you... and if you don't go out to meet him in the high post, he's put up the shot....2pts. I think Smoove had the potential but he was too soft and he would rather just shoot the shot than to go inside and risk being touched.

Amare could do that at 245 and better. Amare like Kemp fell off greatly. Amare due to injuries, Kemp due to life.

Edited June 4, 2014 by nbasupes40retired

[Guest]

Amare could do that at 245 and better. Amare like Kemp fell off greatly. Amare due to injuries, Kemp due to life.

Life=drugs?

[Guest]

No, I think Gordon is definitely Josh Smith like. He has that athleticism. However, Kemp was undervalued because of his late years after he put on those 50lbs. Kemp was an Athletic BEAST who could shot a set shot too. There has been no player like Kemp since Kemp... a 220 lb monster who could drive past you and dunk over you... and if you don't go out to meet him in the high post, he's put up the shot....2pts. I think Smoove had the potential but he was too soft and he would rather just shoot the shot than to go inside and risk being touched.

Kemp had a mid-range game - even fat Kemp still made that shot.

[Guest]

Kemp had a mid-range game - even fat Kemp still made that shot.

Fat Kemp has a certain ring to it...a certain jenesequa if you will. I like it!

[00Blink]

Amare could do that at 245 and better. Amare like Kemp fell off greatly. Amare due to injuries, Kemp due to life.

Are you seriously comparing Amare to Kemp? No comparison ANY day.

Kemp had a nice post game, mid-range, and drive to the basket game against GREAT players as well as defenders and did more than hold his own. He was a GO-TO player. He was feared.

And Amare's above the rim play is not on the same planet as Kemp. The only current above the rim players on Kemp's level is Griffin and Bron. But they get more highlights because of the soft rules of today's game.

As far as Dennis, I respect your opinion on Dennis, but your opinion seems to be blind loyalty from SL and preseason, against somewhat inferior opponents. Potential and blind loyalty can make you look like a genius or a fool.

Just look at our former coaches and GMs for reference. They all basically went off the potential of Josh to turn the corner (I am obviously a Smoove fan, look what he did this year - below pedestrian) and the 'potential' of several other draft prospects; Salim, Law, Jones (although I liked Solomon). Where did that get us> Potential gets you no where until it is fulfilled. You are blindly loyal to a 16-17 pick from last year and expect a top 5 in ANY draft, let alone this one.

*Gasp*

But it is your opinion my man and I respect that.

[Diesel]

Kemp had a mid-range game - even fat Kemp still made that shot.

Fat Kemp had a midrange game and a low post game. But so did thunderdunking Kemp.. but that guy didn't need those things so much.

Amare would attack the rim some... but Kemp was a tier higher than Amare.

[NBASupes]

Fat Kemp had a midrange game and a low post game. But so did thunderdunking Kemp.. but that guy didn't need those things so much.

Amare would attack the rim some... but Kemp was a tier higher than Amare.

lol, how? I looked at their number. Amare clearly was better. Watched the tape, Amare was even better than the stats say. I think you have a love for Kemp due to Gary Payton and that supporting cast. Amare was a monster. A legit top 3-5 player in the years he was in his prime. Kemp was never a top 5 player ever.

[Guest]

Kemp over Amare for my money.

[Diesel]

lol, how? I looked at their number. Amare clearly was better. Watched the tape, Amare was even better than the stats say. I think you have a love for Kemp due to Gary Payton and that supporting cast. Amare was a monster. A legit top 3-5 player in the years he was in his prime. Kemp was never a top 5 player ever.

Amare was a good player. Beastly... no doubt. However, these things make the difference... Amare played in a different era. An Era where fouls were recognized. An Era that lacked big man domination. In Kemp's Era, Fouls went unnoticed. In his era, everybody had a big. There were no PFs walking around as Cs. Here's the difference that stats can't show.... Everybody feared Kemp when he was in Seattle. Kemp was a better rebounder than Amare. Kemp was a better play finisher. Kemp was more likely to DUNK over people playing defense. That means that the defense was set and Kemp Went through the lane anyway. You didn't get a whole lot of that from Amare. He played on a very talented, push the pace team and he got a lot of finishes on the break. Kemp played on a defense first team and in a half court set, their play was give it to Kemp!

[NBASupes]

Amare was a good player. Beastly... no doubt. However, these things make the difference... Amare played in a different era. An Era where fouls were recognized. An Era that lacked big man domination. In Kemp's Era, Fouls went unnoticed. In his era, everybody had a big. There were no PFs walking around as Cs. Here's the difference that stats can't show.... Everybody feared Kemp when he was in Seattle. Kemp was a better rebounder than Amare. Kemp was a better play finisher. Kemp was more likely to DUNK over people playing defense. That means that the defense was set and Kemp Went through the lane anyway. You didn't get a whole lot of that from Amare. He played on a very talented, push the pace team and he got a lot of finishes on the break. Kemp played on a defense first team and in a half court set, their play was give it to Kemp!

You do realize these games are rebroadcast right? You can't make up shit nowadays like you could in 2003 and get away with it. The game got more advanced. Amare's game was more advanced than Kemp's. Kemp was a better rebounder and defender while Stat was better in most other areas. Neither are my ideal PF's but if we are making the comparison, let's be truthful.

[Admin]

You do realize these games are rebroadcast right? You can't make up shit nowadays like you could in 2003 and get away with it. The game got more advanced. Amare's game was more advanced than Kemp's. Kemp was a better rebounder and defender while Stat was better in most other areas. Neither are my ideal PF's but if we are making the comparison, let's be truthful.

But you do realize that Amare played in the highest tempo offense in the league and had a PG who was having some of the better seasons PGs have ever had, right? Amare was an outstanding player before the injuries and so was Kemp. Been too long since I've seen Kemp play but I'd probably consider them equals.

[NBASupes]

But you do realize that Amare played in the highest tempo offense in the league and had a PG who was having some of the better seasons PGs have ever had, right? Amare was an outstanding player before the injuries and so was Kemp. Been too long since I've seen Kemp play but I'd probably consider them equals.

Gary Payton is one of the greatest PG's ever. I would easily take him over Nash.

Amare numbers were freakish with Marbury at PG. Kemp's numbers took a turn for the worst without GP.

I understand the pace of the game. I watched both players a lot. Kemp was a very good player at his peak. But he wasn't great. He was a decent defensive player and a very good offensive player. Amare was an elite offensive player and was a good shot blocker even through he fell out after mircofracture.

I don't love either player. Both had flaws that drove me crazy but I am not stupid. I won't blindly say Kemp because of fandom either which is what Diesel is doing. I remember how badly he wanted Smoove to be Kemp. Kemp had much bigger hands while Josh had baby hands. It wasn't possible for Smoove to do what Kemp does.

Ppl forget how gifted Stats used to be.

[Admin]

Gary Payton is one of the greatest PG's ever. I would easily take him over Nash.

Amare numbers were freakish with Marbury at PG. Kemp's numbers took a turn for the worst without GP.

I understand the pace of the game. I watched both players a lot. Kemp was a very good player at his peak. But he wasn't great. He was a decent defensive player and a very good offensive player. Amare was an elite offensive player and was a good shot blocker even through he fell out after mircofracture.

I don't love either player. Both had flaws that drove me crazy but I am not stupid. I won't blindly say Kemp because of fandom either which is what Diesel is doing. I remember how badly he wanted Smoove to be Kemp. Kemp had much bigger hands while Josh had baby hands. It wasn't possible for Smoove to do what Kemp does.

Ppl forget how gifted Stats used to be.

You are flat out insane if you think Gary Payton is anywhere near Steve Nash when it comes to getting his teammates buckets. It's not even close. His very BEST season he averaged 9 apg. Nash had NINE SEASONS IN A ROW where he matched that or significantly bested it. He had 3 seasons where he averaged 11.5 apg.

Now if you want to argue which you'd rather have as your PG, that's a good debate as Payton was significantly better defensively, but he couldn't hold a candle to Nash when it came to setting his teammates up for easy points, which Amare was a huge benefactor of. That and the fact that the Suns played at a breakneck pace which got Amare a ton of easy points. Kemp never had the same type of advantages and played in an era when ticky tack fouls weren't called.

[NBASupes]

You are flat out insane if you think Gary Payton is anywhere near Steve Nash when it comes to getting his teammates buckets. It's not even close. His very BEST season he averaged 9 apg. Nash had NINE SEASONS IN A ROW where he matched that or significantly bested it. He had 3 seasons where he averaged 11.5 apg.

Now if you want to argue which you'd rather have as your PG, that's a good debate as Payton was significantly better defensively, but he couldn't hold a candle to Nash when it came to setting his teammates up for easy points, which Amare was a huge benefactor of. That and the fact that the Suns played at a breakneck pace which got Amare a ton of easy points. Kemp never had the same type of advantages and played in an era when ticky tack fouls weren't called.

I never said that. I said Payton was a better player. Nash is one of the greatest playmakers EVER!

Payton to me could set up with the best of them. He just wasn't close to Nash in terms of passing. I mean, who is? Magic?

Both got set up for easy finishes as both were elite finishers with elite PG's.

I can't wait till Dennis develops for that reason. I don't see Rondo in Dennis, I see GP. Dennis can't pass as good as Rondo and never will but his court vision is elite and his defensive potential is sky high. He needs seasoning clearly.

Edited June 5, 2014 by nbasupes40retired

[Guest]

You are flat out insane if you think Gary Payton is anywhere near Steve Nash when it comes to getting his teammates buckets. It's not even close. His very BEST season he averaged 9 apg. Nash had NINE SEASONS IN A ROW where he matched that or significantly bested it. He had 3 seasons where he averaged 11.5 apg.

Now if you want to argue which you'd rather have as your PG, that's a good debate as Payton was significantly better defensively, but he couldn't hold a candle to Nash when it came to setting his teammates up for easy points, which Amare was a huge benefactor of. That and the fact that the Suns played at a breakneck pace which got Amare a ton of easy points. Kemp never had the same type of advantages and played in an era when ticky tack fouls weren't called.

Agreed. Nash was a Stockton type. Payton was not. Payton made plays but he wasn't necessarily a playmaker. Don't get me wrong, I love the glove to death. But he wasn't as good as Nash in setting teammates up for buckets. I love playmaking point guards but if you gave me a package of Payton+Kemp or Nash+Amare, I'd go with the former 9/10 times.

[NBASupes]

Agreed. Nash was a Stockton type. Payton was not. Payton made plays but he wasn't necessarily a playmaker. Don't get me wrong, I love the glove to death. But he wasn't as good as Nash in setting teammates up for buckets. I love playmaking point guards but if you gave me a package of Payton+Kemp or Nash+Amare, I'd go with the former 9/10 times.

Payton was great at setting players up for easy buckets. He was no Nash tho but he wasn't some scrub either.

[Guest]

Payton was great at setting players up for easy buckets. He was no Nash tho but he wasn't some scrub either.

Yup. Never said he was a scrub. Love the homeboy from Oakland.