Comparison players thread (Amare / Kemp, Magic / Stockton / Isiah)

[Guest]

Yeah, he only took his team to back to back Finals and barely lost both series to Jordan, Pippen and Rodman. Thomas btw was on a team with several HOF or near at HOF levels. Who the hell did Stockton have on that level other than Malone? It boggles the mind how many rings they would have won if they had just one more guy around their level.

You are of course entitled to your opinion but when you say that Stockton lacked heart and determination you can't be more wrong. This is a guy who was legendary for his ability to take charges and set brutal picks on centers and power forwards as a small, slightly built guard. You don't do that if you lack either of those two qualities.

Your kidding right? Stockton had the best power forward in nba history at the time (Duncan now).

Zeke's best sidekick was Joe Dumars, who was an amazing player but not on Malone's level. I never said Stockton didn't have heart. I just said Zeke had more heart than Stockton. Bottom line is Zeke has 2 rings, Stockton has 0. Zeke refused to lose. I think the Pistons probably should have had 3 rings back to back to back. 88,89,90. Lakers were lucky to pull out the series in 88.

If you swapped Zeke and put him on the Jazz and put Stockton on the Pistons I really believe Zeke would have 2,3 or 4 rings vs none by Stockton and the Pistons.

Team A

Stockton

Dumars

Rodman/Aguirre

Mahorn

Laimbeer

Team B

Isiah Thomas

Jeff Hornacek

Byron Russell/Shandon Anderson

Karl Malone

Greg Ostertag

Team B>Team A

Team B would have 2 or 3 rings

Team A would have 0

[NBASupes]

How is Tony Parker not on your list when you include Kidd, CP3, & Nash? In 50 years nobody will remember kidd,cp3,nash but we will remember who parker is with his 3 rings.

Why would Tony be ahead of Kidd, CP3, or Nash? Those three were clearly elite PG's part large parts of their careers especially CP3 and Kidd. He could be better then Nash considering his longevity in the future.

[NBASupes]

Your kidding right? Stockton had the best power forward in nba history at the time (Duncan now).

Zeke's best sidekick was Joe Dumars, who was an amazing player but not on Malone's level. I never said Stockton didn't have heart. I just said Zeke had more heart than Stockton. Bottom line is Zeke has 2 rings, Stockton has 0. Zeke refused to lose. I think the Pistons probably should have had 3 rings back to back to back. 88,89,90. Lakers were lucky to pull out the series in 88.

If you swapped Zeke and put him on the Jazz and put Stockton on the Pistons I really believe Zeke would have 2,3 or 4 rings vs none by Stockton and the Pistons.

Team A

Stockton

Dumars

Rodman/Aguirre

Mahorn

Laimbeer

Team B

Isiah Thomas

Jeff Hornacek

Byron Russell/Shandon Anderson

Karl Malone

Greg Ostertag

Team B>Team A

Team B would have 2 or 3 rings

Team A would have 0

Zeke was a clearly better player than Stockton. Now if you wanted to say Stockton was a better pure PG, you might have a case but Zeke was a clearly better player. He did more for his team than Stockton did without question. I don't know who could really argue v. that.

But what I can't agree with is Zeke/Malone combo. Stockton/Malone fit each other while Zeke/Malone really doesn't.

Edited June 11, 2014 by nbasupes40retired

[Guest]

Zeke was a clearly better player than Stockton. Now if you wanted to say Stockton was a better pure PG, you might have a case but Zeke was a clearly better player. He did more for his team than Stockton did without question. I don't know who could really argue v. that.

But what I can't agree with is Zeke/Malone combo. Stockton/Malone fit each other while Zeke/Malone really doesn't.

I agree that the Stockton/Malone combo was a perfect fit. I'm just saying if you paired Zeke with Malone that the Jazz would be more likely to have a couple rings than the Pistons would if Stockton was paired with Dumars, Rodman, Laimbeer. Best pure PG, Stockton no doubt. Best clutch player, winner with more heart, Zeke.

[Guest]

I keep making the mistake of seeing the title of this thread in the Homecourt section and thinking, "oh, maybe there'll be some new interesting trade rumors or ideas here." But nope. Just a hijacked thread going on about a bunch of old retired players that have nothing to do with our team. One day I'll learn.

Lol. You should see where some other threads have headed in the past. Down the analytical hawksquawk highway.

[HawkItus]

Magic was the better player vs. Stockton. Period.

[Guest]

Magic>isiah>Stockton if your trying to win a title.

I'm done. Apologies to those who got sick of this thread.

[Admin]

Magic>isiah>Stockton if your trying to win a title.

I'm done. Apologies to those who got sick of this thread.

Wow a lot of disrespect in this discussion for Stockton. He had a nice team but they weren't special offensively or defensively. Zeke had one of the better defensive squads ever and didn't have to face prime of their careers Jordan, Pippen and Jackson, while Stockton did and if weren't for the officials he would have beaten MJ in the finals in what 96?

I'll take Stockton all day over Isiah.

[Sothron]

Jeff Hornacek was a very good player, and Bryan Russell was a solid starter.

lol yeah, Hornacek was a good player. He was nowhere near a HOF player. I'll just forget you said the other guy. When you are talking about scrub players as one of the best players a guy ever had next to him then you just answered the question of "what did he have around him".

[Sothron]

Your kidding right? Stockton had the best power forward in nba history at the time (Duncan now).

Zeke's best sidekick was Joe Dumars, who was an amazing player but not on Malone's level. I never said Stockton didn't have heart. I just said Zeke had more heart than Stockton. Bottom line is Zeke has 2 rings, Stockton has 0. Zeke refused to lose. I think the Pistons probably should have had 3 rings back to back to back. 88,89,90. Lakers were lucky to pull out the series in 88.

If you swapped Zeke and put him on the Jazz and put Stockton on the Pistons I really believe Zeke would have 2,3 or 4 rings vs none by Stockton and the Pistons.

Team A

Stockton

Dumars

Rodman/Aguirre

Mahorn

Laimbeer

Team B

Isiah Thomas

Jeff Hornacek

Byron Russell/Shandon Anderson

Karl Malone

Greg Ostertag

Team B>Team A

Team B would have 2 or 3 rings

Team A would have 0

Honestly, this is just laughable. If you think a shoot first PG in Zeke was going to win 2 or 3 rings with the best pick and roll PF in NBA history that couldn't do his thing with a guy like Zeke with the ball then I don't know what to say. You are entitled to your wrong opinion. Stockton is so far superior to Zeke it is honestly an insult to Stockton to even have the discussion. You might as well start spouting that Jeff Teague is better than Stockton.

[Sothron]

After thinking about it in seriousness, Stockton isn't in my top 5 PG's all time:

1. Magic

2. Oscar

3. Zeke

4. CP3

5. Jason Kidd

6. Stockton

7. GP

8. Steve Nash

9. Cousy

10. Tiny Nate A.

Magic was the greatest bar none for me.

Oscar was like Lebron before Lebron but didn't win much but didn't have a supporting cast. Right there with Magic if not more talented.

Zeke was a winner and an elite player.

CP3 is one of the greatest and most efficient guards ever.

Kidd was the standard for pure PG play and great defense.

Stockton was the supreme system PG but because he was a system PG, I knocked him a tad. Malone was perfect for him as was Stockton was perfect for Malone.

GP was one of the most complete PG's of all time. Great offense, great defense, great talent. His peak wasn't long enough to move him higher which his prime indicates.

Nash is a system PG who I liked but I never loved. I think he won his MVP's because the NBA wanted to promote whites. I just think that because no way was he better than Shaq or Kobe for his team. It's bullshit he won those MVP's. Still, he is a great PG and one of the best to do it.

Cousy, probably should be higher. In fact, I probably need to move him ahead of CP3, Kidd, Stockton, and Nash to be honest but he wasn't as talented as those ahead of him.

Tiny was a dynamic scorer and passer. He wasn't much of a defender and was probably underrated a tad. Still a great PG.

Let me fix this for you:

1. Stockton

2. Oscar

3. Magic

4. Kidd

5. Zeke/GP in a tie

[Sothron]

Wow a lot of disrespect in this discussion for Stockton. He had a nice team but they weren't special offensively or defensively. Zeke had one of the better defensive squads ever and didn't have to face prime of their careers Jordan, Pippen and Jackson, while Stockton did and if weren't for the officials he would have beaten MJ in the finals in what 96?

I'll take Stockton all day over Isiah.

I like how the guy forgets that Thomas had HoF players around him in Dumars, Rodman, Aguirre/Dantley, a guy bordering on HOF in Laimbeer and one of the deepest benches in NBA history. Compare that with Stockton having the AMAZING Bryan Don't Call My Bryon Russell and the SPECTACULAR Shannon Anderson. Oh and don't forget Greg Ostertag, CLEARLY on the same level as Bill Laimbeer.

Smh

[Admin]

Honestly, this is just laughable. If you think a shoot first PG in Zeke was going to win 2 or 3 rings with the best pick and roll PF in NBA history that couldn't do his thing with a guy like Zeke with the ball then I don't know what to say. You are entitled to your wrong opinion. Stockton is so far superior to Zeke it is honestly an insult to Stockton to even have the discussion. You might as well start spouting that Jeff Teague is better than Stockton.

I'm not sure that's how the saying goes if you're trying to be diplomatic :)

[Admin]

I like how the guy forgets that Thomas had HoF players around him in Dumars, Rodman, Aguirre/Dantley, a guy bordering on HOF in Laimbeer and one of the deepest benches in NBA history. Compare that with Stockton having the AMAZING Bryan Don't Call My Bryon Russell and the SPECTACULAR Shannon Anderson. Oh and don't forget Greg Ostertag, CLEARLY on the same level as Bill Laimbeer.

Smh

I just think that people forget how good the Pistons actually were. Plus they were sliding in there perfect at the end of the Lakers / Celtics run and before the Bulls run.

[Sothron]

I'm not sure that's how the saying goes if you're trying to be diplomatic

It was intentional. There's only so much blatant disrespect one can take. Trying to say that Stockton wouldn't win rings with one of the deepest teams in NBA history while Zeke would win 2 or 3 with one of the most perennial short on talented playoff teams deserves that response.

[Admin]

It was intentional. There's only so much blatant disrespect one can take. Trying to say that Stockton wouldn't win rings with one of the deepest teams in NBA history while Zeke would win 2 or 3 with one of the most perennial short on talented playoff teams deserves that response.

Oh yeah I realize it was intentional - just saying usually the statement is just "you're entitled to your opinion" and that still implies they were wrong without being so obvious about it.

[AHF]

I just think that people forget how good the Pistons actually were. Plus they were sliding in there perfect at the end of the Lakers / Celtics run and before the Bulls run.

The Jazz had a similar window of opportunity while Jordan played baseball. The Rockets just were better in the playoffs.

[Admin]

The Jazz had a similar window of opportunity while Jordan played baseball. The Rockets just were better in the playoffs.

Nobody were going to beat the Rockets then and they were easily the best team in basketball. The Jazz were never the best team in basketball. The Pistons were during their run. So were the Bulls.

[HawkItus]

Ok didn't see Rain Man vs. STAT

I gotta go Rain Man for simple fact of after they lost their athleticism Kemp was still a fundamental beast. STAT is not bad, but he could never anchor offense from the post.

Isiah vs. Paul is a better argument for me than putting him against Magic or Stockton. Both have never played with a truly elite post player.

Edited June 11, 2014 by sultanofatl

[NBASupes]

Ok didn't see Rain Man vs. STAT

I gotta go Rain Man for simple fact of after they lost their athleticism Kemp was still a fundamental beast. STAT is not bad, but he could never anchor offense from the post.

Isiah vs. Paul is a better argument for me than putting him against Magic or Stockton. Both have never played with a truly elite post player.

lol, revisionist history. I remember when the Hawks were contenders in the late 90's lol.