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Comparison players thread (Amare / Kemp, Magic / Stockton / Isiah)

Diesel

By Diesel
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I get what you're saying. I'm not saying the Rockets were anywhere near the level of the Bulls or that they dominated the league the way the Bulls did. What I'm saying is that they knew how to turn it on in the playoffs and nobody were going to stop them. They had the best player in the league playing the best he ever played in his career and one of those years was the year he absolutely made Robinson and Shaq look like they were severely outclassed. Maybe they don't win the majority of those 100 times if you played it over but I sure wouldn't bet against them. The Rockets those 2 years were just special and Rudy T summed it up perfectly that you never underestimate the heart of a champion. That's why I say they were the best team in the league those 2 years and nobody was going to change that.

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Nash was a better scorer and much worse defender than Stockton. They were pretty similar as passers but I think Nash was more of a product of his system than was Stockton. Stockton could excel in bo

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Agreed there's no comparison between Stockton and Nash, except that I'd probably say Nash is the better ball handler and has far better feet than Stockton but Nash is probably the best all time at tha

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I don't like the idea of saying "well, Magic was a better player but Stockton was a better PG." It seems counter-intuitive to me to break it down into a technicality. If the guy plays PG and is the

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I met Gary Payton. He was super cool. We talked for two minutes, at the Las Vegas airport. I thought that nice being a stranger. And the woman on his arm, wow....

You got to talk to him AND be the woman on his arm? Nice! I gotta ask, what was his rule on no glove no love?

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AHF Grand Master

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I get what you're saying. I'm not saying the Rockets were anywhere near the level of the Bulls or that they dominated the league the way the Bulls did. What I'm saying is that they knew how to turn it on in the playoffs and nobody were going to stop them. They had the best player in the league playing the best he ever played in his career and one of those years was the year he absolutely made Robinson and Shaq look like they were severely outclassed. Maybe they don't win the majority of those 100 times if you played it over but I sure wouldn't bet against them. The Rockets those 2 years were just special and Rudy T summed it up perfectly that you never underestimate the heart of a champion. That's why I say they were the best team in the league those 2 years and nobody was going to change that.

I think that series with the Knicks was a absolute toss-up. The Knicks could easily have won had Starks even his 30% of his shots in Game 7. The Rockets benefited from some good luck -- which can be as important a part of a championship as heart (since both teams in the finals typically have some very positive intangibles). Hakeem was the best center in the league at that point but the rest of the team wasn't at a level where they could have been competitive against teams like Bird's Celtics, Magic's Lakers, or Jordan's Bulls. They took advantage of an opening between elite teams perfectly. Had the Jazz peaked during those two years, they could easily have won championships running into Orlando and NY instead of the Bulls buzz saw.

There were a lot of teams in that category during the early nineties - the Jazz (Stockton & Malone), the Spurs (Robinson), the Rockets (Hakeem), the Knicks (Ewing), the Suns (Barkley), the Trail Blazers (Drexler), the Super Sonics (Payton & Kemp), etc. They all peaked for a couple years from 1991-1998 but only the Rockets timed their peak with the absence of Jordan. In the other years in that span the Rockets got bounced by the Lakers (3-0), the Sonics (4-3), the Jazz (4-2), the Sonics (4-0), the Jazz (3-2) (they also missed the playoffs entirely one year) and didn't even make a WCF let alone an NBA final.

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I think that series with the Knicks was a absolute toss-up. The Knicks could easily have won had Starks even his 30% of his shots in Game 7. The Rockets benefited from some good luck -- which can be as important a part of a championship as heart (since both teams in the finals typically have some very positive intangibles). Hakeem was the best center in the league at that point but the rest of the team wasn't at a level where they could have been competitive against teams like Bird's Celtics, Magic's Lakers, or Jordan's Bulls. They took advantage of an opening between elite teams perfectly. Had the Jazz peaked during those two years, they could easily have won championships running into Orlando and NY instead of the Bulls buzz saw.

There were a lot of teams in that category during the early nineties - the Jazz (Stockton & Malone), the Spurs (Robinson), the Rockets (Hakeem), the Knicks (Ewing), the Suns (Barkley), the Trail Blazers (Drexler), the Super Sonics (Payton & Kemp), etc. They all peaked for a couple years from 1991-1998 but only the Rockets timed their peak with the absence of Jordan. In the other years in that span the Rockets got bounced by the Lakers (3-0), the Sonics (4-3), the Jazz (4-2), the Sonics (4-0), the Jazz (3-2) (they also missed the playoffs entirely one year) and didn't even make a WCF let alone an NBA final.

You can say that with anyone. The Jazz could have easily won if MJ hadn't pushed off. And the Bulls were far and away the best team in the game in the regular season but barely beat the Jazz. Just a lot of ifs and butts and could have's here but at the end of the day the Rockets handled their business and won 2 straight.

And not sure why you're bringing up the Rockets in other years as I'm only saying they were the best team in the game in 94-95. That's it. They won both titles and they were the best team those years as far as I'm concerned.

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AHF Grand Master

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You can say that with anyone. The Jazz could have easily won if MJ hadn't pushed off. And the Bulls were far and away the best team in the game in the regular season but barely beat the Jazz. Just a lot of ifs and butts and could have's here but at the end of the day the Rockets handled their business and won 2 straight.

And not sure why you're bringing up the Rockets in other years as I'm only saying they were the best team in the game in 94-95. That's it. They won both titles and they were the best team those years as far as I'm concerned.

The Bulls beat the Jazz 4-2 and had a positive point differential in the series. I think it is a significantly different to win the series 4-3 with a negative point differential and the difference coming down to a 2-18 game.

The reason I am bringing up the Jazz in other years is because I said the main difference between the Rockets and Jazz was that the Jazz peaked when MJ was playing and the Rockets peaked when he was out. In response, you suggested that the Rockets were materially different than the Jazz because the Rockets were "clearly the best team in basketball" like the Bulls and Pistons and the Jazz never were.

I think the biggest difference between Stockton's Jazz at their peak and Hakeem's Rockets at their peak is that one team was lucky enough to peak when MJ was out and the other was unlucky enough to peak when MJ was facing them in the finals. That is just a difference in being in the right place at the right time as opposed to being on a different level as a team.

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We never go to bed angry though. Did you see the Kate Upton pick he posted? That is love.

Going to bed angry is a sin. I missed the Kate Upton is it in this thread? Btw this thread is a classic. It could be used as an NBA lesson for the younger crowd. Y'all should charge lol

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You got to talk to him AND be the woman on his arm? Nice! I gotta ask, what was his rule on no glove no love?

Well, she didn't say a word. She just stood there beautiful. GP was different... He signed an autograph, talked, just liked when he played, lol
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Diesel Grand Master

Diesel

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The Bulls beat the Jazz 4-2 and had a positive point differential in the series. I think it is a significantly different to win the series 4-3 with a negative point differential and the difference coming down to a 2-18 game.

The reason I am bringing up the Jazz in other years is because I said the main difference between the Rockets and Jazz was that the Jazz peaked when MJ was playing and the Rockets peaked when he was out. In response, you suggested that the Rockets were materially different than the Jazz because the Rockets were "clearly the best team in basketball" like the Bulls and Pistons and the Jazz never were.

I think the biggest difference between Stockton's Jazz at their peak and Hakeem's Rockets at their peak is that one team was lucky enough to peak when MJ was out and the other was unlucky enough to peak when MJ was facing them in the finals. That is just a difference in being in the right place at the right time as opposed to being on a different level as a team.

I think the real question here is could the Bulls (Michael's first set) have beaten the Rockets (2nd time Champions with Drexler).

The second question is ... IF Shaq had not left Orlando, would MJ have ever won another Championship?

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AHF Grand Master

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I think the real question here is could the Bulls (Michael's first set) have beaten the Rockets (2nd time Champions with Drexler).

The second question is ... IF Shaq had not left Orlando, would MJ have ever won another Championship?

The Rockets second championship team was not as good as the first. That is why they were a sixth seed and barely escaped the first two rounds of the playoffs. They beat the Jazz on the road in an elimination game and fell down 3-1 to the Suns in the second round. A combination of gritty comeback and some good fortune as they had negative point differential in both series. Hakeem owned Shaq and the Rockets owned Orlando in the playoffs that year unlike the matchup against Ewing the year before, though.

The Bulls would have wrecked both of those teams had MJ not jumped to MLB.

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Sothron Grand Master

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Isiah>Stockton in 1 final game...it's called Heart

Are you trying to troll to get a response at this point?

Stockton >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thomas

Period.

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Are you trying to troll to get a response at this point?

Stockton >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thomas

Period.

Isiah 2 rings ...Stockton...ummm..0..the end

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