Comparison players thread (Amare / Kemp, Magic / Stockton / Isiah)

[Guest]

Magic+Worthy vs Stockton+Malone

That would be interesting. Then again Karl is a pf while big game James even though 6'9" is a sf, or at least played sf with the Lakers.

Magic+Scott vs Stockton+Jeff Malone or Hornacek ?

[AHF]

Well you gotta go with Magic as he could defend Stockton but Stockton wouldn't have any ability to stop Magic from just posting him up all game.

Now what if you put 4 Josh Smith's out there with Magic? I don't think even he could win with that.

4 Joshes wouldn't look any better with Stockton or anyone else, though. So then you are comparing:

Stockton, Josh x 4 versus Magic, Josh x 4

or a more realistic version:

John Stockton / Magic Johnson

JR Smith

Josh Smith

Antoine Walker

Derrick Coleman

[Guest]

I guess still not fair for Stockton due to his disadvantage vs Magic. Maybe a 3 on 3 matchup?

Magic+Scott+Worthy

Vs

Stockton+Malone+Mark Eaton

[Guest]

4 Joshes wouldn't look any better with Stockton or anyone else, though. So then you are comparing:

Stockton, Josh x 4 versus Magic, Josh x 4

or a more realistic version:

John Stockton / Magic Johnson

JR Smith

Josh Smith

Antoine Walker

Derrick Coleman

This matchup wouldn't happen. Magic would leave the gym before playing with these guys and Stockton might actually choke JR Smith and Antoine at the same time or even clunk their heads together like Mo from the stooges.lol

[AHF]

This matchup wouldn't happen. Magic would leave the gym before playing with these guys and Stockton might actually choke JR Smith and Antoine at the same time or even clunk their heads together like Mo from the stooges.lol

All the more reason I wish we could see it play out!

[Guest]

All the more reason I wish we could see it play out!

Indubitably.

[Admin]

4 Joshes wouldn't look any better with Stockton or anyone else, though. So then you are comparing:

Stockton, Josh x 4 versus Magic, Josh x 4

or a more realistic version:

John Stockton / Magic Johnson

JR Smith

Josh Smith

Antoine Walker

Derrick Coleman

Oh no I'm saying giving Stockton a team full of good players vs Magic and 4 Josh Smith's. I like Stockton's odds!

That team would be among the all-time worst, but I'd put in Javale McGee at C instead of Derrick Coleman.

[AHF]

Oh no I'm saying giving Stockton a team full of good players vs Magic and 4 Josh Smith's. I like Stockton's odds!

That team would be among the all-time worst, but I'd put in Javale McGee at C instead of Derrick Coleman.

Yeah - I like Stockton's odds with a team of guys like Kawhi Leonard over Magic with 4 Joshes, too, but that speaks more to the rest of the team than it does to the impact of Stockton/Magic. My suggestion was thinking about whether a team wins more with Magic or Stockton. Like take the Rockets team from the first season Utah made the finals and see how that would look:

Magic

Elie

Drexler

Barkley

Hakeem

or

Stockton

Elie

Drexler

Barkley

Hakeem

or look at the Hawks that year:

Magic

Smith

Corbin

Laettner

Mutombo

or

Stockton

Smith

Corbin

Laettner

Mutombo

or a terrible team from that year like the Grizzlies:

Magic

Anthony Peeler

Shareef Abdur-Rahim

Roy Rogers

Bryant "Big Country" Reeves

or

Stockton

Anthony Peeler

Shareef Abdur-Rahim

Roy Rogers

Bryant "Big Country" Reeves

[Guest]

Yeah - I like Stockton's odds with a team of guys like Kawhi Leonard over Magic with 4 Joshes, too, but that speaks more to the rest of the team than it does to the impact of Stockton/Magic. My suggestion was thinking about whether a team wins more with Magic or Stockton. Like take the Rockets team from the first season Utah made the finals and see how that would look:

Magic

Elie

Drexler

Barkley

Hakeem

or

Stockton

Elie

Drexler

Barkley

Hakeem

or look at the Hawks that year:

Magic

Smith

Corbin

Laettner

Mutombo

or

Stockton

Smith

Corbin

Laettner

Mutombo

or a terrible team from that year like the Grizzlies:

Magic

Anthony Peeler

Shareef Abdur-Rahim

Roy Rogers

Bryant "Big Country" Reeves

or

Stockton

Anthony Peeler

Shareef Abdur-Rahim

Roy Rogers

Bryant "Big Country" Reeves

I would take Magic in every scenario with the exception of the Rockets. Stockton would prolly break Scottie Skiles game record of 30 dimes with Drexler, Barkley and Olajuwon ...that's just filthy.

[Guest]

By the way I hope I'm not opening a can of worms here but as much as I think Stockton was great, not only would I take Magic over him but in a playoff/finals situation I'd take Isaiah "Zeke" Thomas over him. I'm not saying Stockton choked in the postseason by any means but he didn't have the heart and determination of Zeke.

[coachx]

I like the Payton kid from Louisiana. There are a lot of guys I like in this draft. I think maybe this draft might be a little overrated at the top.

Saw him play GSU twice. The kid has no jump shot. In one game Ryan Harrow got him in foul trouble and he played limited minutes. In the other game Harrow dropped 37 on him while scoring at will. Granted Harrow is a former top 20 recruit and starter at Kentucky.......but he is nothing like what he will see in the NBA.

For a prospect with no jump shot.....who's strength is supposed to be defense he did not impress.

By the way I hope I'm not opening a can of worms here but as much as I think Stockton was great, not only would I take Magic over him but in a playoff/finals situation I'd take Isaiah "Zeke" Thomas over him. I'm not saying Stockton choked in the postseason by any means but he didn't have the heart and determination of Zeke.

[coachx]

By the way I hope I'm not opening a can of worms here but as much as I think Stockton was great, not only would I take Magic over him but in a playoff/finals situation I'd take Isaiah "Zeke" Thomas over him. I'm not saying Stockton choked in the postseason by any means but he didn't have the heart and determination of Zeke.

Agree......Isiah could score for 50 when his team was cold or dish out 20 dimes when they were hot.

Thomas just did not have the longevity that Stockton had.

[NBASupes]

Saw him play GSU twice. The kid has no jump shot. In one game Ryan Harrow got him in foul trouble and he played limited minutes. In the other game Harrow dropped 37 on him while scoring at will. Granted Harrow is a former top 20 recruit and starter at Kentucky.......but he is nothing like what he will see in the NBA.

For a prospect with no jump shot.....who's strength is supposed to be defense he did not impress.

I seen him play over 15 times. Only once v. GA State.

[Admin]

I seen him play over 15 times. Only once v. GA State.

I've actually seen him play over 1500 times.

[Sothron]

By the way I hope I'm not opening a can of worms here but as much as I think Stockton was great, not only would I take Magic over him but in a playoff/finals situation I'd take Isaiah "Zeke" Thomas over him. I'm not saying Stockton choked in the postseason by any means but he didn't have the heart and determination of Zeke.

Yeah, he only took his team to back to back Finals and barely lost both series to Jordan, Pippen and Rodman. Thomas btw was on a team with several HOF or near at HOF levels. Who the hell did Stockton have on that level other than Malone? It boggles the mind how many rings they would have won if they had just one more guy around their level.

You are of course entitled to your opinion but when you say that Stockton lacked heart and determination you can't be more wrong. This is a guy who was legendary for his ability to take charges and set brutal picks on centers and power forwards as a small, slightly built guard. You don't do that if you lack either of those two qualities.

[AHF]

Why does everyone sleep on Horny as a third wheel? He averaged 15-20 ppg in his prime while shooting 40% from 3pt range and 88% from the line on 4 attempts per game. He averaged 6 assists per game along with 4 rebounds per game. His career TS% was .582 and was .620 / .619 in back to back years when the Jazz were at their best. How is he some total loser who gets overlooked?

Joe Johnson wishes his numbers were as good as Hornaceks come playoff time.

[Admin]

Why does everyone sleep on Horny as a third wheel? He averaged 15-20 ppg in his prime while shooting 40% from 3pt range and 88% from the line on 4 attempts per game. He averaged 6 assists per game along with 4 rebounds per game. His career TS% was .582 and was .620 / .619 in back to back years when the Jazz were at their best. How is he some total loser who gets overlooked?

Joe Johnson wishes his numbers were as good as Hornaceks come playoff time.

Speak for yourself, I sleep just fine thank you.

[ATLien_]

Who the hell did Stockton have on that level other than Malone?

Jeff Hornacek was a very good player, and Bryan Russell was a solid starter.

[NBASupes]

After thinking about it in seriousness, Stockton isn't in my top 5 PG's all time:

1. Magic

2. Oscar

3. Zeke

4. CP3

5. Jason Kidd

6. Stockton

7. GP

8. Steve Nash

9. Cousy

10. Tiny Nate A.

Magic was the greatest bar none for me.

Oscar was like Lebron before Lebron but didn't win much but didn't have a supporting cast. Right there with Magic if not more talented.

Zeke was a winner and an elite player.

CP3 is one of the greatest and most efficient guards ever.

Kidd was the standard for pure PG play and great defense.

Stockton was the supreme system PG but because he was a system PG, I knocked him a tad. Malone was perfect for him as was Stockton was perfect for Malone.

GP was one of the most complete PG's of all time. Great offense, great defense, great talent. His peak wasn't long enough to move him higher which his prime indicates.

Nash is a system PG who I liked but I never loved. I think he won his MVP's because the NBA wanted to promote whites. I just think that because no way was he better than Shaq or Kobe for his team. It's bullshit he won those MVP's. Still, he is a great PG and one of the best to do it.

Cousy, probably should be higher. In fact, I probably need to move him ahead of CP3, Kidd, Stockton, and Nash to be honest but he wasn't as talented as those ahead of him.

Tiny was a dynamic scorer and passer. He wasn't much of a defender and was probably underrated a tad. Still a great PG.

[JTB]

After thinking about it in seriousness, Stockton isn't in my top 5 PG's all time:

1. Magic

2. Oscar

3. Zeke

4. CP3

5. Jason Kidd

6. Stockton

7. GP

8. Steve Nash

9. Cousy

10. Tiny Nate A.

Magic was the greatest bar none for me.

Oscar was like Lebron before Lebron but didn't win much but didn't have a supporting cast. Right there with Magic if not more talented.

Zeke was a winner and an elite player.

CP3 is one of the greatest and most efficient guards ever.

Kidd was the standard for pure PG play and great defense.

Stockton was the supreme system PG but because he was a system PG, I knocked him a tad. Malone was perfect for him as was Stockton was perfect for Malone.

GP was one of the most complete PG's of all time. Great offense, great defense, great talent. His peak wasn't long enough to move him higher which his prime indicates.

Nash is a system PG who I liked but I never loved. I think he won his MVP's because the NBA wanted to promote whites. I just think that because no way was he better than Shaq or Kobe for his team. It's bullshit he won those MVP's. Still, he is a great PG and one of the best to do it.

Cousy, probably should be higher. In fact, I probably need to move him ahead of CP3, Kidd, Stockton, and Nash to be honest but he wasn't as talented as those ahead of him.

Tiny was a dynamic scorer and passer. He wasn't much of a defender and was probably underrated a tad. Still a great PG.

How is Tony Parker not on your list when you include Kidd, CP3, & Nash? In 50 years nobody will remember kidd,cp3,nash but we will remember who parker is with his 3 rings.