The Major Discussion Point for Me With the Trade

[AHF]

I'm on the Klay Thompson and Cousins train. Cousins would make a lot of sense. Seems to me we have been talking to the Kings for a while. First for the 8th pick that didn't happen and now possibly for their big man. I think the Kings do want to win now but could also be getting sick of Cousins antics. If we are getting Cousins, somewhere Horford is smiling and very excited that he no longer has to get beat up every night playing out of position.

 

I would be thrilled to see that happen but I doubt that the Kings unload Cousins.  It seems like their pick at #8 is expressly there to be a perimeter option for Cousins to hit when he is in the post ala inside/outside game.  They should have taken someone else if they just wanted assets for a team not built around Cousins.

[Admin]

Why would the T-Wolves do that ? I think the T-Wolves have little interest in gaining cap space for Kevin Love. They know that ,without Kevin Love, they not a free agent destination. I would think they want assets.

 

Milsap only has 1 year under contract himself. All they would get long term  is a middle to late 1st round pick.

 

I think they have a long list of better offers on the table for Love.

 

Was just about to type this ^^^

[Sothron]

Why would the T-Wolves do that ? I think the T-Wolves have little interest in gaining cap space for Kevin Love. They know that ,without Kevin Love, they not a free agent destination. I would think they want assets.

 

Milsap only has 1 year under contract himself. All they would get long term  is a middle to late 1st round pick.

 

I think they have a long list of better offers on the table for Love.

 

I'm the only Wolves fan on this site. They absolutely want to clear cap space by getting rid of Barea and Martin. Part of the haggling between them and GSW is over GSW taking back at least one of their contracts and GSW doesn't want to do it.

 

They can get Millsap from us, replace a stretch four in Love with a stretch four in Millsap. They get rid of two bad contracts freeing them up with tons of cap space to go after guys like Klay Thompson as a RFA next offseason. They get a first rounder back to boot.

 

The draft has already passed so all the "much better" deals the Wolves were rumored to have been offered involving this year's draft is all moot and void.

[Admin]

I'm the only Wolves fan on this site. They absolutely want to clear cap space by getting rid of Barea and Martin. Part of the haggling between them and GSW is over GSW taking back at least one of their contracts and GSW doesn't want to do it.

 

They can get Millsap from us, replace a stretch four in Love with a stretch four in Millsap. They get rid of two bad contracts freeing them up with tons of cap space to go after guys like Klay Thompson as a RFA next offseason. They get a first rounder back to boot.

 

The draft has already passed so all the "much better" deals the Wolves were rumored to have been offered involving this year's draft is all moot and void.

 

Minnesota makes Atlanta look like South Beach as a free agent destination.  Nobody worth a damn are going to Minnesota as a free agent. Now, they might be able to trade for guys on big contracts to get them there but that's the only way they're getting premium talent outside of the draft. 

[Sothron]

Minnesota makes Atlanta look like South Beach as a free agent destination.  Nobody worth a damn are going to Minnesota as a free agent. Now, they might be able to trade for guys on big contracts to get them there but that's the only way they're getting premium talent outside of the draft. 

 

Actually, that's not the case. Kevin Martin picked Minn over other offers to go there. They signed Batum to a max or near max deal because he wanted to go there but Portland matched it at the last second. They also managed to resign Love and Pek. They may have to overpay a little but they do in fact get quality players to go there.

 

In fact you could make a case Minnesota has done a better job in recent years in recruiting players to their team than we have.  Their owner is filthy rich insane and isn't afraid to pay for players. He just had an incompetent assclown in Kahn that nearly ruined the franchise and now Flip in two years is righting the ship.

[Admin]

Actually, that's not the case. Kevin Martin picked Minn over other offers to go there. They signed Batum to a max or near max deal because he wanted to go there but Portland matched it at the last second. They also managed to resign Love and Pek. They may have to overpay a little but they do in fact get quality players to go there.

 

In fact you could make a case Minnesota has done a better job in recent years in recruiting players to their team than we have.  Their owner is filthy rich insane and isn't afraid to pay for players. He just had an incompetent assclown in Kahn that nearly ruined the franchise and now Flip in two years is righting the ship.

 

Again, nobody worth a damn.  Kevin Martin is a journeyman mid-level player who wanted to get overpaid and found a team willing to do so. 

 

They're capable of extending deals and/or matching offers for their guys who can't become unrestricted free agents. 

They're also capable of being used to get other players the contracts they want.

 

Nobody of tier 1 ability WANTS to go to Minnesota and play there. 

[MaceCase]

We can get bounced in the first or second round without giving up Bebe so that leaves me with three possibilities:

 

(1)  DF sees a move here that will get us past 1st/2nd round territory and that justifies the pick being included.

(2)  DF tried to make something of the asset but screwed up the pick and/or failed to move it for a future first while that was viable and therefore is now doing damage control.

(3)  DF never tried to get anything other than a stash player and never cared if the pick actually translated into NBA value.  In this scenario, since he knew the pick was never worth what an ordinary mid-round pick is worth he has no problem parting with it even though we will still be a 1st/2nd round exit after this play is made.

And the team can get bounced in the 1st and 2nd round with Bebe whenever it is that he finally comes over or is capable of contributing.  You framed Ferry giving up Bebe almost as if he gave up a top lotto pick or even a future unprotected 1st.  The trade can be construed as giving up a bunter to advance a base runner but you seem to expect a home run result when Ferry absolutely did not give up a home run piece unless the entire evaluation of late teen draft picks have completely changed while I was watching the World Cup.

[coachx]

I'm the only Wolves fan on this site. They absolutely want to clear cap space by getting rid of Barea and Martin. Part of the haggling between them and GSW is over GSW taking back at least one of their contracts and GSW doesn't want to do it.

 

They can get Millsap from us, replace a stretch four in Love with a stretch four in Millsap. They get rid of two bad contracts freeing them up with tons of cap space to go after guys like Klay Thompson as a RFA next offseason. They get a first rounder back to boot.

 

The draft has already passed so all the "much better" deals the Wolves were rumored to have been offered involving this year's draft is all moot and void.

 

I understand trading a guy like BeBe as a sweetener to dump salary................I can't imagine trading a top 10 player who is in their prime for that same reason.

 

Barea only has 1 year left on his contract. Martin has 2 years left.

[Sothron]

Again, nobody worth a damn.  Kevin Martin is a journeyman mid-level player who wanted to get overpaid and found a team willing to do so. 

 

They're capable of extending deals and/or matching offers for their guys who can't become unrestricted free agents. 

They're also capable of being used to get other players the contracts they want.

 

Nobody of tier 1 ability WANTS to go to Minnesota and play there. 

 

I'd say K-Mart is worth a damn, just not at his price. Love, Batum and Pek are definitely worth a damn. Remember THEY signed Batum to a deal because HE wanted to go there. He even asked Portland not to match but they did.

 

If you are saying no superstar free agent will go to Minnesota, ok you got a point...but what superstar free agent have *we* signed since Deke? I mean seriously, there's no need to knock Minn's ability to sign guys when we frankly are in the same boat they are.

[Sothron]

I understand trading a guy like BeBe as a sweetener to dump salary................I can't imagine trading a top 10 player who is in their prime for that same reason.

 

Barea only has 1 year left on his contract. Martin has 2 years left. 

 

They trade Love because they have no choice. They also want significant cap relief in a team taking on Love. We are about the only team in the NBA that can give them both significant cap relief as well as giving them back an All Star PF to replace Love as well as a 2015 first rounder. 

Minn can use Millsap to replace Love. They use their cap savings to sign Klay Thompson to a max deal next summer and make GSW give him up because they can't match that. Suddenly the Wolves have Rubio, Klay, Bazz or Brewer, Millsap and Pek/Dieng as a starting unit with decent backups in Lavine, Brewer or Bazz, Dante Cunningham and Dieng or Pek. That's a very deep team that actually works as all the parts fit with each other.

[coachx]

Actually, that's not the case. Kevin Martin picked Minn over other offers to go there. They signed Batum to a max or near max deal because he wanted to go there but Portland matched it at the last second. They also managed to resign Love and Pek. They may have to overpay a little but they do in fact get quality players to go there.

 

In fact you could make a case Minnesota has done a better job in recent years in recruiting players to their team than we have.  Their owner is filthy rich insane and isn't afraid to pay for players. He just had an incompetent assclown in Kahn that nearly ruined the franchise and now Flip in two years is righting the ship.

Perk and Love were RFA..........they were handcuffed.

 

Minnesota is like the North Pole during during basketball season.

[Admin]

I'd say K-Mart is worth a damn, just not at his price. Love, Batum and Pek are definitely worth a damn. Remember THEY signed Batum to a deal because HE wanted to go there. He even asked Portland not to match but they did.

 

If you are saying no superstar free agent will go to Minnesota, ok you got a point...but what superstar free agent have *we* signed since Deke? I mean seriously, there's no need to knock Minn's ability to sign guys when we frankly are in the same boat they are.

 

KMart has always been vastly overrated and he got vastly overpaid. 

 

Batum wanted a new deal and wanted the most money he could get. Joe Johnson never wanted to be a Hawk but he wanted to be the man and get the most money he could get. 

 

Love and Pek haven't had a chance to leave yet as they were restricted. 

 

I'm not saying Atlanta is a premier destination but I guarantee you that we'd be a far more desirable option to a superstar than Minnesota if our situations were the same. 

[coachx]

I'd say K-Mart is worth a damn, just not at his price. Love, Batum and Pek are definitely worth a damn. Remember THEY signed Batum to a deal because HE wanted to go there. He even asked Portland not to match but they did.

 

If you are saying no superstar free agent will go to Minnesota, ok you got a point...but what superstar free agent have *we* signed since Deke? I mean seriously, there's no need to knock Minn's ability to sign guys when we frankly are in the same boat they are.

and Batum was attracted to Minnesota b/c of Kevin Love.

 

without Kevin Love there is little attraction.

[Admin]

and Batum was attracted to Minnesota b/c of Kevin Love.

 

without Kevin Love there is little attraction.

 

Oh come on coach you could have said "without Love there is little attraction". 

[Sothron]

Perk and Love were RFA..........they were handcuffed.

 

Minnesota is like the North Pole during during basketball season.

 

They play the games indoors. And, I have to add, it is just as cold and miserable all over the North and East. You don't hear guys refusing to play in Chicago over its blizzards for example.

 

My point being, Minnesota may not be a superstar free agent destination but for guys like Klay Thompson or Batum? Hell yes they would go there. Twolves have already showed they can bring those guys in.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

So hold up.  Kevin Love would sign a long term contract here, if he were traded for?

 

Doesn't he have his list of teams that he'd rather play for, just like some of the other big names in this free agency period?

[AHF]

And the team can get bounced in the 1st and 2nd round with Bebe whenever it is that he finally comes over or is capable of contributing.  You framed Ferry giving up Bebe almost as if he gave up a top lotto pick or even a future unprotected 1st.  The trade can be construed as giving up a bunter to advance a base runner but you seem to expect a home run result when Ferry absolutely did not give up a home run piece unless the entire evaluation of late teen draft picks have completely changed while I was watching the World Cup.

 

That is fair but I have a problem with that thinking because if we are trying to land our superstar then we have to maximize each of our draft picks and I do view them like gold.  Teams trade for superstars with lottery picks and young players outside of the lottery who hit.  If you are just going to give up on what could be your best currency for trading for a superstar for a "bunt" level move when you need a lot more to contend then I become even more skeptical than I already was about our ability to marshal the assets to trade for a stud.  

 

For that reason, I think we need to hoard our first round assets for a trade unless we are on the verge of a star FA signing (very doubtful, IMO) or are ready to advance from the Joe Johnson-level playoff performance.  Because of that, I am assuming that Ferry sees an opportunity to do something a lot bigger than bunting to move a man from first to second at the expense of a #16 pick.

[MrMeltdown]

Sap+Payne+ a couple of 1st's to get Love is not bad seeing that Ferry obviously does not value first rd picks

[MaceCase]

That is fair but I have a problem with that thinking because if we are trying to land our superstar then we have to maximize each of our draft picks and I do view them like gold.  Teams trade for superstars with lottery picks and young players outside of the lottery who hit.  If you are just going to give up on what could be your best currency for trading for a superstar for a "bunt" level move when you need a lot more to contend then I become even more skeptical than I already was about our ability to marshal the assets to trade for a stud.  

 

For that reason, I think we need to hoard our first round assets for a trade unless we are on the verge of a star FA signing (very doubtful, IMO) or are ready to advance from the Joe Johnson-level playoff performance.  Because of that, I am assuming that Ferry sees an opportunity to do something a lot bigger than bunting to move a man from first to second at the expense of a #16 pick.

How does one maximize the value of a non lotto pick in the first place?  You'd have to bring them over and play them correct?  That's how you get that player that "hits" because the draft position is not enough but is that a distinct possibility with all of the mouths to feed in the front-court rotation already?  And is that opportunity to maximize the Bebe pick worthy of not putting yourself in a position to strike on a star in the first place by being cap constrained or preventing you from perhaps acquiring lower tier impact individual(s) at a position of scarcity which can increase the overall strength (and perhaps attractiveness) of your team?

 

Ferry has had 5 picks previous to this draft and he's had 4 of those already be a part of the rotation at different junctures.  Do you see that trend holding up with his 3 more picks being added to the mix?  So essentially we should look at 8 players on rookie deals being developed at once to either hit as contributors or be desirable for trade for a star piece.  Besides clearly tanking teams such as Philly and Orlando that's not a likelihood at all for Ferry or any team.

 

Instead of looking at this as the "16th" pick perhaps the reality that it's Lucas "Bebe" Nogueria, C for Estudiantes should settle in.  The Hawks sport more than enough prospects at the front-court position to make him expendable and if that allows the Hawks the opportunity to acquire a piece and not necessarily the piece then it's hard to look at the trade as anything but a success.

[AHF]

How does one maximize the value of a non lotto pick in the first place?  You'd have to bring them over and play them correct?  That's how you get that player that "hits" because the draft position is not enough but is that a distinct possibility with all of the mouths to feed in the front-court rotation already?  And is that opportunity to maximize the Bebe pick worthy of not putting yourself in a position to strike on a star in the first place by being cap constrained or preventing you from perhaps acquiring lower tier impact individual(s) at a position of scarcity which can increase the overall strength (and perhaps attractiveness) of your team?

 

Ferry has had 5 picks previous to this draft and he's had 4 of those already be a part of the rotation at different junctures.  Do you see that trend holding up with his 3 more picks being added to the mix?  So essentially we should look at 8 players on rookie deals being developed at once to either hit as contributors or be desirable for trade for a star piece.  Besides clearly tanking teams such as Philly and Orlando that's not a likelihood at all for Ferry or any team.

 

Instead of looking at this as the "16th" pick perhaps the reality that it's Lucas "Bebe" Nogueria, C for Estudiantes should settle in.  The Hawks sport more than enough prospects at the front-court position to make him expendable and if that allows the Hawks the opportunity to acquire a piece and not necessarily the piece then it's hard to look at the trade as anything but a success.

 

I see that as poor value from the 16th pick.  I would rather he flip it to an currently studly team for an unprotected future first in a couple years - like say having given it to the Trailblazers who badly needed bench players last season for a 2016 first rounder or to the Grizzlies who had pretensions of contending or the Lakers, etc.  That pick could be flipped in a deal like the Lou trade or could blossom into something amazing if those teams go down the tubes.  Either way, it seems like better value management than taking and stashing a player you have no intention of ever being on the roster.

 

If he did intend for Bebe to be on the roster, then maybe it was just a missed pick, which happens.

 

I certainly think teams should expect to commit more resources to playing and developing their first round picks over their second rounders.