Thabo & Pero Arrested; Thabo OUT FOR SEASON due to injuries

[Guest]

RUMOR: NYPD Blood draws reveal Thabo had a high amount of Swiss Miss in his system.

 

~lw3

 

I was like ...

 

[AHF]

 

 

 

Of course, there are some players who on a particular night won't indulge but using an anecdote (particularly one that is a blank slate of no information) to address a larger issue is bad form for you.  So it appears you are now pretending like NBA players out partying through 3 a.m. aren't drinking or otherwise engaged in recreational substances.  Death of common sense for you on this thread.  

 

I started to link to all the recommendation for athletes to get more sleep and regular sleep but there are so many links that I think the point isn't one you dispute.  It is obviously why more and more NBA teams are investing in biometric monitoring to try to maximize peak performance from their players -- where there is a documented link between getting the right sleep (time going to bed and amount of sleep, particularly REM sleep) and performance.

[HawkItus]

So explain why there are bouncers at clubs but not at restaurants.  I'm waiting.

depends on the restaurant and what part of town.  

[AHF]

depends on the restaurant and what part of town.  

 

Go on...if you finish the thought you'll arrive at the conclusion that the bouncer's presence is linked to the risk of bad behavior, confrontations and/or fights.  Business men are not idiots.  They hire bouncers because they need security personnel on site to deter and to deal with these issues.  They don't hire bouncers if the risk is so low that it isn't worth paying them to be there.

[HawkItus]

Go on...if you finish the thought you'll arrive at the conclusion that the bouncer's presence is linked to the risk of bad behavior, confrontations and/or fights.  Business men are not idiots.  They hire bouncers because they need security personnel on site to deter and to deal with these issues.  They don't hire bouncers if the risk is so low that it isn't worth paying them to be there.

True, but Casinos and Hotels, Jewelry stores, sporting events etc. all have security and it is visible security.  So any presumption that a venue is particularly unsafe because of this presence is not realistic.

[Randy]

RUMOR: NYPD Blood draws reveal Thabo had a high amount of Swiss Miss in his system.

 

~lw3

 

 

I think it was the tell-tale signs of marshmellow on his hands and face that gave him away.

[AHF]

True, but Casinos and Hotels, Jewelry stores, sporting events etc. all have security and it is visible security.  So any presumption that a venue is particularly unsafe because of this presence is not realistic.

 

It is for bars and eating establishments.  Casinos and jewelry stores don't generally have security there primarily to deter and deal with confrontations and violence.  It is the risk of theft that is the biggest issue.  They usually have very high value, easy to steal items and have security there because the value of deterrence is worth the cost of their presence.  Restaurants and bars don't have that kind of valuable merchandise.  Instead, it is the confrontational behavior of the patrons that is the risk where an owner feels like bouncers are necessary.

 

I absolutely do not presume that any venue with security is unsafe.  Instead, I am saying that there has to be some risk (or in limited circumstances a benefit) that justifies the cost of the security or they won't be there.  It isn't the risk that hawksfanatic is going to run off with a bottle of rumple that accounts for the presence of the guards at a club or bar.  It is the risk that people are going to get into a fight, get into a confrontation over a girl, get so smashed that they are out of control, etc.  Anyone who has been out has seen this behavior and understands why the bouncers are there.

Edited September 11, 2015 by AHF

[Guest]

Of course, there are some players who on a particular night won't indulge but using an anecdote (particularly one that is a blank slate of no information) to address a larger issue is bad form for you.  So it appears you are now pretending like NBA players out partying through 3 a.m. aren't drinking or otherwise engaged in recreational substances.  Death of common sense for you on this thread.

You previously mentioned that you didn't say they were drunk. Maybe you should reread what you're actually writing because you pretty much implied they were drunk with what I quoted you on? Unless one can be drinking until 3 a.m. and not be drunk.

Your whole argument in this discussion presumes that Pero and Thabo were engaged in risky behavior based upon your experience/idea of what goes on in night clubs and what Pero and Thabo might have been doing. So in other words, you assume the answer then chide my "common sense" for not making assumptions. Please, let me know how Pero and Thabo were engaged in such reckless behavior that they should be shamed. Should be fun to read. But my guess is you'll pull out anecdotes and moral judgement to make your case.

Edited September 11, 2015 by hawksfanatic

[TheNorthCydeRises]

I still think being out late was stupid. First, it is game day so being out at 2:00 a.m. isn't a good idea. Party on your off days or better yet party in the offseason.

Second, the risks are materially greater at 2:00 a.m. You've got a bunch of drunk / high people at clubs, bars, etc. which are more risky and you've got much higher risk from bouncers and inexperienced cops dealing with more violent crime at that time (the experienced ones typically work the day shift by virtue of their seniority).

Thabo did nothing wrong that would justify the way he was manhandled by the NYPD. I'm rooting for Thabo to take those guys to the cleaners but I don't think the Hawks will have any remedy.

I agree. My main beef with those two, is that they had just played a game a few hours before, and had to fly a few hours to another city in the middle of the night.

And instead of resting up to play the 2nd game of a back 2 back, they're rushing to a club as soon as they touch down in NYC.

They didn't deserve what happened to them at the hands of the WWE-NYPD. But at the very least, they used poor judgement being out that late.

[lethalweapon3]

Beating up on the latest newsworthy Keystone Kopz event in the Big Apple:

 

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/nyc-crime/photo-shows-suspect-resembles-tennis-star-james-blake-article-1.2356150

 

The NYPD relied on an unnamed outside firm to produce a picture of a guy who was going around town stealing high-end footwear with stolen credit cards. According to the NY Daily News, this company supplied NYPD with a picture of a guy who arguably resembled James Blake... except they had The Wrong Guy.

 

When I say The Wrong Guy, I'm not even talking about Blake. The dude whose pic the suspiciously-protected company sent to the cops was NOT the actual suspect, but merely somebody they found online. Google "this guy might be committing identity theft!", and you'll probably wind up closer to the actual suspect than the NYPD got.

 

The mystery man’s skin appears to be a shade darker than Blake’s and there is some resemblance to the handsome retired tennis star.

 

The photo was supplied to police by a company that incorrectly suspected the man was using stolen credit cards to purchase high-end footwear.

 

That person is not considered a suspect.

 

The firm, which did its own investigation before alerting police, found the photo online.

 

 

Either this hapless company didn't bother to advise the cops until after the kerfuffle... OR they did, and the PD ignored it... but New York's Finest used the pic of The Wrong Guy Who Looked a Little Bit Like James Blake, and a "witness" who relied on the faulty pic, to set up a sting outside the hotel where This Other Guy Who Looked a Little Bit Like James Blake (because he WAS James Blake) was staying. Setting the stage for the latest Bumrush a Random Athlete Who's Standing Still for a Non-Violent Offense scene to unfold.

 

It will not surprise me in the least if there's a working Venn diagram between Blake's and Sefolosha's arresting officers. It is fascinating to me that we haven't seen the criminal complaint/arrest record with officers' names on it.

 

Also telling: as far as I can tell, NO trial date has been set for Shezoy Bleary, the guy whose alleged stabbing of Chris Copeland and his Significant Other precipitated the NYPD's ever-so-important attempts to "clear the area"... an "area" which was, apparently, half the West Side of Manhattan. 

 

~lw3

[MaceCase]

If you saw the report last year that NYC has shelled out nearly half a billion in civil lawsuit settlements since 2009 due primarily to the NYPD you'd recognize that the cops have a "tackle them all, let the DA sort them out" mentality.

 

https://www.rt.com/usa/195988-nyc-civil-lawsuits-millions/

[JETSET]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7LnoFKSl2rs#t=11

 

Here's the vid of the Blake arrest.

[lethalweapon3]

^About 5 seconds in, Blake's probably thinking about what happened to Thabo and is like, "yeah, whoever this buster is, I'd better get on the ground! I like having limbs!"

 

~lw3

[Guest]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7LnoFKSl2rs#t=11

Here's the vid of the Blake arrest.

Man, that just made my blood boil.

That's not an arrest, that's an ASSAULT.

[Guest]

James Blake was just asking for it, probably had some drinks in him too. {/sarcasm}

[AHF]

You previously mentioned that you didn't say they were drunk. Maybe you should reread what you're actually writing because you pretty much implied they were drunk with what I quoted you on? Unless one can be drinking until 3 a.m. and not be drunk.

Your whole argument in this discussion presumes that Pero and Thabo were engaged in risky behavior based upon your experience/idea of what goes on in night clubs and what Pero and Thabo might have been doing. So in other words, you assume the answer then chide my "common sense" for not making assumptions. Please, let me know how Pero and Thabo were engaged in such reckless behavior that they should be shamed. Should be fun to read. But my guess is you'll pull out anecdotes and moral judgement to make your case.

It's quite likely they had some drinks but not certain. It is as close to certain as the sun rising tomorrow that people around them did. Your selective quoting doesn't dispose of your lack of common sense on this thread.

[Guest]

It's quite likely they had some drinks but not certain. It is as close to certain as the sun rising tomorrow that people around them did. Your selective quoting doesn't dispose of your lack of common sense on this thread.

Thanks for continuing with the assumptions, Ace. Fantastic job. And I'm still waiting on the first shred of evidence that Thabo engaged in material risks. Since I know you're statistically illiterate, I have a feeling I'll be waiting a while or at least have to correct your interpretations of how going to a club is a material risk that one should blame Thabo, as you have, for anything in this situation. You going to go dig up incidents involving Charles Barkley again?

But sure, assume the answer and express prejudice against Thabo's lifestyle but then tell someone who isn't making an assumption they lack common sense. Do you realize how closed minded and ignorant that type of behavior is? No, of course you don't because you've already assumed that you're not assuming anything here.

[LamarHampton]

Enough with this back and forth already saying the same old sh!t. Yall can keep acting like there is no risk associated with going to clubs and staying out late, but of course there is. Stop being silly. I dont care if people make choices that might harm thrmselves; thats part of a free society. But this time the poor decision came back and had negative consequences and it was bad for the Hawks team. Lets move on. Damn.

[Guest]

Enough with this back and forth already saying the same old sh!t. Yall can keep acting like there is no risk associated with going to clubs and staying out late, but of course there is. Stop being silly. I dont care if people make choices that might harm thrmselves; thats part of a free society. But this time the poor decision came back and had negative consequences and it was bad for the Hawks team. Lets move on. Damn.

The Hawks came out to repeatedly demonstrate that they condone the activities of Thabo and Pero. NBA contracts contain clauses which prohibit a player engage in activities that involve risky activities.

"Accordingly, the Player agrees that he will not, without the written consent of the Team, engage in any activity that a reasonable person would recognize as involving or exposing the participant to a substantial risk of bodily injury"

By the process of deduction, looks like through lawyer speak and actions of the Hawks, going to a club is not a material risk. But sure, I'm the one without common sense. Maybe we will have AHF start listing all the anecdotes he has from his wild club life to demonstrate expertise in how this is such a material risk?

Or maybe, anyone who thinks Thabo took some material risk is being an asshat. But I'm always open to someone bringing some data or evidence to demonstrate the risk. As is, the Hawks have been pretty clear demonstrating they do not find this to be a material risk. Because it likely is not. But the best case for those demonstrating that material risk to me is to insult my common sense? Suuuure. Sounds reasonable.

[LamarHampton]

My grandmother says that nothing good ever happens after midnight. You best not be calling my grandmother an asshat.

In fact, we all know it to be true as a general rule of thumb, no matter how hard you try to argue against it, that going clubbing and being out late come with certain risks. Whether this particular risk was forseeable and whether the Hawks lawyer speak recognizes it as a material risk is, er, immaterial. Sure, they were within their rights to be out. And it seems likely that the cops were out of line. But when i had kids i quit going out late and hanging around in clubs... because a lot of times bad stuff happens and i have responsibilities. And it is best to not put yourself in that situation in the first place.

Damn, can preseason start already??? I would much prefer to actually talk and read about actual basketball games.