Guaranteeing a trip back to the ECF!

[JTB]

My Apology:

First off to my fellow hawk fans I would like to apologize…..this is one long ass thread but promise to create discussion... please skim through as necessary I appreciate your time. Now I would like to go on and say I was dead ass wrong when I said we don't need any BIG MEN! I was wrong when I said we don't need any more size…Truth is hawk fans we got punked in the playoffs and it was all too obvious! While I still believe that Millsap & Horford are better players than Mosgov & Tristian SKILL wise theres nothing they can do about those guys size and power! Horford and Sap got beaten up and embarrassed nearly the whole playoffs vs match ups bigger than them…….only way to counter is to make a move!

 

What our hawks need:

 

-Bigger BIGs (We need size….this is the first time Ive ever thought we needed Bigger Big men)

-Rebounder

-a shot alter (not necessarily a blocker)

-a scorer (better than Teague and Millsap)

-Another Athletic wing that can penetrate the lane and capable of defending the perimeter

 

 

Realistic Off Season moves Hawks can make to get back to the ECF next season:

(Using our Cap and what I think each individual free agent is worth I tried to make the most realistic moves the hawks can actually make in all my scenarios but of course its not accurate of what these players are really worth with so many teams willing to overpay BUT its a lot more realistic than what others have been posting on these boards)

 

Option A

 

(The Starters)

Pg-Teague

Sg-Korver

Sf-DMC

Pf-Horford

C-Gasol

 

(The Bench)

Pg-Dennis

Sg-Bazemore/(Gary Neal if possible to sign he shouldn't be too much where we cant) 

Sf-Thabo

Pf-Scott

C-Edy/Moose

 

Brief Overview:

        Option A solves numerous problems just by adding Marc Gasol. Marc would be a fantastic scorer in Buds System and possibly better than what he was in Memphis since the hawks have a better shooting unit that can spread the floor and give Gasol one on one match ups in the paint where he has proven to be a legit threat night in and night out. Gasol will also improve the teams rebounding struggles with his large frame and strength that will help box out most opponents allowing Horford, Carroll, and others to go after rebounds easier. On defense Gasol and Horford will be able to challenge and alter shots at the rim at a high rate.

        On the Bench we Bring over Edy who we all know has terrific size to come in for Gasol and we add Gary Neal as another shooter who knows this Spurs like System inside and out! Neal also fits with a center like Gasol since he has an outstanding shooting ability beyond the 3pt line.

 

***What this option A lacks is another athletic wing that can penetrate and defend however that was done on purpose because I believe with a BIG like Marc Gasol who will see plenty of one on one opportunities in the paint (in Buds system) will be better off with shooters around him and that we should be ok with Gasol, Horford, Teague being our main paint scorers as well as Carroll, Dennis, & Bazemore chipping in.

 

 

Option B

 

(The Starters)

Pg-Teague

Sg-Korver (or Bazemore or Gerald Green)

Sf-Carroll

Pf-Horford

C-Lamarcus Aldridge 

 

(The Bench)

Pg-Dennis

Sg-Bazemore (or Korver as sixth man)

Sf-Gerald Green/Thabo

Pf-Moose

C-Edy

 

Brief Overview:

        Option B solves a lot of problems but not as many as Option A. Lamarcus definitely gives our Hawks the scorer that they badly need as well as size and rebounding. But what Lamarcus has not shown is a defensive prowess like a Marc Gasol, Mosgov type player. However the hawks would still be a stronger team at the end of the day. Offensively they would probably be extremely high scoring with Lamarcus ability to score in iso when need be all while still being able to spread the floor with all 5 starters.

        The Bench becomes extremely athletic adding Gerald Green who might cost us Mike Scott and Shelvin Mack to acquire but he adds penetration and defense to the perimeter all while also being an monster dunker. Our bigs, Moose and Edy gives us plenty of size coming in for Horford and Lamarcus.

 

***Overall Option B gives us a go to scorer in Lamarcus who should also be able to help improve the teams rebounding struggles and give good size around the goal with his 6'11 large frame. Then we have four good overall defensive perimeter players in Carroll, Thabo, Green, & Bazemore. Also four players who can penetrate the lane at a steady rate and score in Teague, Dennis, Bazemore, and Green with the help of Buds Spurs like Offensive System. 

     What we would lack in this option would be proven shooters off the bench (SOMEWHAT). However losing Mack and Scott wouldn't be very costly in this scenario as some may think with a player like Lamarcus on the team. Also at any time this starters lineup could easily change and be more effective as a team overall by inserting Bazemore or Gerald Green at starting SG and bring a deadly shooter like Korver off the bench to be our sixth man. In my opinion that would probably be the best option due to Lamarcus mainly being a shooter and doing most his damage from the perimeter, we wouldn't need to put shooters around him like a Marc Gasol but rather more guys who can penetrate the lane or an extra guy in the starting lineup other than Teague.

 

 

Option C

 

(The Starters)

Pg-Teague

Sg-Carroll

Sf-Tobias Harris

Pf-Horford

C-Robin Lopez

 

(The Bench)

Pg-Dennis

Sg-Korver/Bazemore

Sf-Thabo

Pf-Mike Scott

C-Edy/Moose

 

Brief Overview:

         Option C Im not really BIG on and only discussing since the rumor is that ORL will not match a high end offer for Tobias and Robin Lopez may be easy to get if Lamarcus leaves Portland. Anyways option C does give us another scoring option on the wing with a very young SF like Harris who has good size and very good shooting ability but not much of a perimeter defender or defender period really. Robin Lopez is a blue collar player that probably most hawk fans will grow in love with if he came to ATL.  Lopez doesn't seem like he's capable of much on the stat line but I do believe he can help with team rebounding much like the other free agents at his center position and could probably avg 8pts 10 rebs at best but remember he is 7'2 and he plays hard so his toughness won't show up on the stat sheet but should be able to alter shots as hard as he plays.

          The bench should be good overall if not better with Korver as sixth man and adding Edy. Not much else to really say but Korver indeed could push to be sixth man of the year easily cause we all know Bud will continue to use him in the best ways possible and he would probably be just as effective off the bench under Bud.

 

        ****What this option C lacks is that we won't necessarily be a team that could make it back to the ECF again (next season anyways) but we would have a very young scorer who could grow to be a very good all star caliber player in Tobias Harris along side Dennis in the future. As for Big men Robin would give us size but he wouldn't be the sure fix. All in all this option C is a future move and not a right now move but I still would say the hawks would be a top 4 seed in the east with this option.  

 

 

Option D

 

(The Starters)

Pg-Teague

Sg-Korver

Sf-Carroll

Pf-Horford

C-Monroe

 

(The Bench)

Pg-Dennis

Sg-Bazemore

Sf-Thabo/Gerald Green or Gary Neal signed

Pf-Moose

C-Edy

 

Brief Overview:

      Option D is only possible if we can max Monroe at 14m per year which is his max at his years of experience, resign DMC to a 8 or 9 mil per year contract and then getting rid of Scott, Jenkins, Mack, Daye to sign either Gary Neal or Gerald Green….I believe this works anyways (similar to what we will have to do with going after Marc Gasol). But looking into what this option gives the hawks we would have another overall good starting 5 that can score except Monroe would be a mainly post player where he's best at instead of all 5 starters being mainly shooters. As I have stated before on this message board I believe Monroe who's only 26 can be an exceptional scorer in Bud's spurs like offense system. Give credit to Monroe for avg 15pts and 10 rebs on an AVERAGE the last 4 years of every season on a team (DET) that has fired coach after coach and front office was just a complete mess the majority of the time he's been there.

         You don't have to believe but Monroe around better talent that plays a team basketball style offense and defense will probably benefit him to a point where he could avg 20pts and 10 rebs. That may sound crazy but that is how much I believe in Bud! I just think Monroe will flourish with this hawks team.

        The game plan will be very similar to how we would play with Marc Gasol. We have shooters that can spread the floor and give him (Monroe) plenty of one on one opportunities against other opponents centers. Monroe is also an outstanding passer that will find the open man. He should also help with team rebounding like he did in DET where he was a huge help! I believe DET was top in the league in rebounding and no Drummond did not do it all on his own.

 

        The bench will be better regardless as long as they stay healthy.

 

***What this option lacks is defense. Monroe has not shown he can be a capable defender but the good thing is that he is young enough to improve plus he has good size. Other than that there are really not many things to worry about with this option….it doesn't mean going back to the ECF for sure but its possible and very possible depending on how well Monroe performs.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks for reading!

Edited May 28, 2015 by JTB

[Diesel]

I don't think we're going to spend a lot of money.

 

I was looking at realistic moves that the Hawks can make to obtain a Big.  Here's 2 names that came to mind.

 

Kuofas and Cole Aldrich.

 

Aldrich gives us size at 6'11" 250.  He would be bigger than Gortat.  The thing about Aldrich is that he's an underappreciated rebounder and defender.  Nobody likes NY players but in limited minutes, Aldrich did a good job.  I can definitely see him in our rotation.

 

Kuofas will probably leave Memphis.  They consider him plan B if Gasol leaves.  He's not a bad C at all.  7'0" 265.

 

I think Aldrich would be cheaper and more athletic and he would be a guy who could help us on the boards and against other bigs.

 

 

I also can see us getting Gary Neal.  I don't think he helps.   Who would help is Kevin Martin.  His lifetime in Minny is very short now.

 

If we could pry Martin from Minny with say Dennis.  I wouldn't be surprised to see us bring in CJ Watson as BU PG.

[bumpyphish1]

Didn't read post, but I'll guarantee a return to ECF as well.  Ferry and Bud are gonna do good things this summer, I bet.

[NBASupes]

Let's be real, the Hawks are gonna do what they are going do. The only players we could target are guys we have in the past like Monroe who we signed last yr but DET wanted too much in a SnT and Deng who didn't and probably won't after DF-gate. Not have full bird rights is what's killing us with Carroll. For Sap, it's not that big of a deal but without his full rights, it will be tough to resign him too. I hate the NBA and their rights. 

[JETSET]

Let's be real, the Hawks are gonna do what they are going do. The only players we could target are guys we have in the past like Monroe who we signed last yr but DET wanted too much in a SnT and Deng who didn't and probably won't after DF-gate. Not have full bird rights is what's killing us with Carroll. For Sap, it's not that big of a deal but without his full rights, it will be tough to resign him too. I hate the NBA and their rights. 

 

I would love to see a link for this.

[NBASupes]

I would love to see a link for this.

http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/12/17/report-pistons-asked-for-kyle-korver-and-jeff-teague-in-discussing-greg-monroe-trade-with-hawks/

 

From my sources, he wanted to sign but with only could do a SnT and this happened. 

[RandomFan]

http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/12/17/report-pistons-asked-for-kyle-korver-and-jeff-teague-in-discussing-greg-monroe-trade-with-hawks/

 

From my sources, he wanted to sign but with only could do a SnT and this happened. 

So no, we actually never did sign him, like I figured all along. A rumored trade for him supposedly was discussed; and even assuming if this rumor is true, then that's as far as it ever got. You should probably stop spreading misinformation stating we signed him, when there is zero evidence of that being true.

 

We can rightfully assume we have/had an interest in him - again if we assume that rumor is true. But that's about it. This guy is going to get max money from NYK or LAL for one thing. And another thing, there is no freaking way I'd trade Millsap for Monroe. No freaking way.

[macdaddy]

I think that's the second proposal to include Robin Lopez.   Horf/Lopez is a HUGE downgrade from Millsap/Horford.   Just look at Wall and Beal.   Those guys are top 3 of backcourts in the nba but they're out because Gortat and Nene are way overrated.  And they are overrated simply because they are big.   Robin Lopez should be a backup center unless he's playing alongside someone named Duncan.

 

Millsap / Horford is a good combination but i agree we need more off the bench.   

[AHF]

One thing I don't see in any of these is the #15 pick we have in the draft where it is expected we will see some nice SG/SF prospects.  I'd love to see option A happen.  

[capstone21]

I really believe Edy is years away from contributing.  I don't see him being our backup center next year.  Maybe our 12th man

[asdogg]

You are underselling Millsap . Sap is a top 3 PF the NBA based on a 4.97 RPM. and a 10+ WARS. In fact he is a top 20 NBA player. Pls don't judge his playoff performance this year on a bum shoulder. Remember him this season and last years playoffs . He was a beast . I would rather trade Horf then lose Sap. Sap is just a better player.

[Vol4ever]

SMH......... 

[DatzEvo]

First of all JTB, awesome post! I really like how you've laid out all the options.

 

While it would be awesome to see options A and B it seems unlikely that we will be able to sign Gasol or Aldridge. It would be freaking awesome if Bud and the front office could some how pull it out, but i just dont see it happening. I think Gasol and Aldrige are a little too expensive for us. 

 

The most realistic options out of the bunch is us signing Greg Monroe, however i saw some reports out there saying Knicks are very close to sign Monroe. I hope it is just a rumor report.

 

What do you guys think about Asik out of New Orleans? I think he could be another options for us at Center.

Edited May 28, 2015 by DatzEvo

[JTB]

One thing I don't see in any of these is the #15 pick we have in the draft where it is expected we will see some nice SG/SF prospects. I'd love to see option A happen.

Wow I forgot about the draft pick!....hopefully whoever the Hawks draft bud actually plays the guy.

[JTB]

First of all JTB, awesome post! I really like how you've laid out all the options.

While it would be awesome to see options A and B it seems unlikely that we will be able to sign Gasol or Aldridge. It would be freaking awesome if Bud and the front office could some how pull it out, but i just dont see it happening. I think Gasol and Aldrige are a little too expensive for us.

The most realistic options out of the bunch is us signing Greg Monroe, however i saw some reports out there saying Knicks are very close to sign Monroe. I hope it is just a rumor report.

What do you guys think about Asik out of New Orleans? I think he could be another options for us at Center.

Thanks! And unfortunately for us hawk fans your probably right Gasol and Lamarcus are probably too expensive for the Hawks but hopefully not since either could be a franchise changing move.

On asik I started to add an option with him but thought his services may be too much for the Hawks off the bench plus I don't think he would entertain a bench role. I'm sure they wouldn't replace millsap for him so bench would be his only option on this team.

[JTB]

You are underselling Millsap . Sap is a top 3 PF the NBA based on a 4.97 RPM. and a 10+ WARS. In fact he is a top 20 NBA player. Pls don't judge his playoff performance this year on a bum shoulder. Remember him this season and last years playoffs . He was a beast . I would rather trade Horf then lose Sap. Sap is just a better player.

I don't feel like I am I'm just creating scenarios to help the Hawks defeat some of the glaring weaknesses that they have....Millsap to me is the odd man out not because of the playoffs but due to his size. I agree that sap has more skills than many pf among the nba but he doesn't have size and strength to compete go up against some of the bigger pfs across the league.

I rather get bigger now rather than trying to find out if sap can muscle these bigger guys in the playoffs or not. Not to mention sap is worth only 14m at best. anything past 14m assuming the Hawks sign him back at all cost i expect him to be the lead dog and carry this team.

[Diesel]

I don't feel like I am I'm just creating scenarios to help the Hawks defeat some of the glaring weaknesses that they have....Millsap to me is the odd man out not because of the playoffs but due to his size. I agree that sap has more skills than many pf among the nba but he doesn't have size and strength to compete go up against some of the bigger pfs across the league.

I rather get bigger now rather than trying to find out if sap can muscle these bigger guys in the playoffs or not. Not to mention sap is worth only 14m at best. anything past 14m assuming the Hawks sign him back at all cost i expect him to be the lead dog and carry this team.

 

That's terrible logic.   Better would be to bring in a big who can matchup against Bigs.   Horf is not a PF.  Moreover, we got bigger in the farm. 

[Guest]

I don't feel like I am I'm just creating scenarios to help the Hawks defeat some of the glaring weaknesses that they have....Millsap to me is the odd man out not because of the playoffs but due to his size. I agree that sap has more skills than many pf among the nba but he doesn't have size and strength to compete go up against some of the bigger pfs across the league.

I rather get bigger now rather than trying to find out if sap can muscle these bigger guys in the playoffs or not. Not to mention sap is worth only 14m at best. anything past 14m assuming the Hawks sign him back at all cost i expect him to be the lead dog and carry this team.

You lost me on wanting to 'see Sap muscle bigger guys' - he went thru an 82 game season and 2 playoffs rounds. He came up short against 1 guy - Tristan Thompson.

Millsap was 7th in rebounds amongst PFs in the entire league beaten out by Griffin, Aldridge, Duncan, AD, Dirk and Pau.

And I'm not saying we don't need size, but your argument doesn't hold.

[thescout5]

One thing I find hard to believe is how some teams always seem to find a way to get the players they want. Cleveland is way over the cap this year yet found a way to bring in the players they wanted. Next year while they'll probably lose Love they'll still be way over the cap yet Atlanta can't find a way to sign their own and bring in a star player. 

 

The solution is get rid of players by trading the ones you don't want or finding a creative way to sign your own and still get a star. Third option let Sap go trade a few players who are not starters and then sign a star player. While I think signign a star player is the best solution th Hawks will probably bring up Tavaras and find a fill in power forward who can grab boards if it comes down to having to matchup vs other team's bigs.They'll bring back Sap and Carroll and add a little bit to the team.Now if this doesn't work next year will be talking about the same issues BUT will be locked into Carroll and Sap and the Hawks will be stuck. I suppose you could trade them but knowing are luck Durant will be a free agent and the teams that want him will wait to see what he does before dealing with Atlanta. It means the Hawks won't be bidding for a superstar because they'll be stuck with what they have. You simply can't win with the same ole Hawks tradition.  

[Plainview1981]

One thing I find hard to believe is how some teams always seem to find a way to get the players they want. Cleveland is way over the cap this year yet found a way to bring in the players they wanted. Next year while they'll probably lose Love they'll still be way over the cap yet Atlanta can't find a way to sign their own and bring in a star player. 

 

The solution is get rid of players by trading the ones you don't want or finding a creative way to sign your own and still get a star. Third option let Sap go trade a few players who are not starters and then sign a star player. While I think signign a star player is the best solution th Hawks will probably bring up Tavaras and find a fill in power forward who can grab boards if it comes down to having to matchup vs other team's bigs.They'll bring back Sap and Carroll and add a little bit to the team.Now if this doesn't work next year will be talking about the same issues BUT will be locked into Carroll and Sap and the Hawks will be stuck. I suppose you could trade them but knowing are luck Durant will be a free agent and the teams that want him will wait to see what he does before dealing with Atlanta. It means the Hawks won't be bidding for a superstar because they'll be stuck with what they have. You simply can't win with the same ole Hawks tradition.  

 

Some teams get things done despite of what precieved limitations they have... Others, they just talk about what they can't do and they don't get anything done. The Hawks are in the 2nd group.