Really getting pizzed that C-Viv's not doing his job (re: Mike Scott story)

[Guest]

I'm looking at the old 2005 CBA and realizing that holy crap this is so frustrating. The CBA was broken down into a pdf for each Article instead of being aggregated together. The pdfs are also poorly formatted and not readable in some parts. But anyway, the section on the Anti-Drug Program then is pretty much identical. ARTICLE XXXIII.pdf

As of right now, only one download of the Anti-Drug Program article for the CBA. There were none yesterday. I think I know who downloaded it and read at least part of it.

Also interesting to note that another poster is reading this thread the same way as me. But gee, I guess I was wrong in interpretation huh?

[sturt]

Guys, I'm done here. Bored. I've stated and re-stated. Thankfully, at least, by virtue of his question, fanatic finally hints that maybe I know what I was saying all along, even if he or others interpreted it differently at first. You aren't going to spoil my happiness that the hobbled QB made it through the first quarter without apparent damage, and there's at least that much reason to hold out hope he won't go down and be out for the year.

[Guest]

Guys, I'm done here. Bored. I've stated and re-stated. Thankfully, at least, by virtue of his question, fanatic finally hints that maybe I know what I was saying all along, even if he or others interpreted it differently at first. You aren't going to spoil my happiness that the hobbled QB made it through the first quarter without apparent damage, and there's at least that much reason to hold out hope he won't go down and be out for the year.

[LamarHampton]

Well i for one am glad that's over. I feel kind of OCD about reading every post on here, but reading that exchange really felt like a chore. (Certainly no offense intended to the participants, just seemed like it got out of hand.) But yes, C-Viv seems a bit neglectful in not having more info on this Mike Scott situation. He has never really been that impressive as a reporter. I still remember getting a chuckle out of the Twitter exchange he had with the guy from Peachtree Hoops (Kris Willis, i think) about how he just regurgitates PTree Hoops articles. That was hilarious.

Edited August 11, 2015 by LamarHampton

[Guest]

Well i for one am glad that's over. I feel kind of OCD about reading every post on here, but reading that exchange really felt like a chore. (Certainly no offense intended to the participants, just seemed like it got out of hand.) But yes, C-Viv seems a bit neglectful in not having more info on this Mike Scott situation. He has never really been that impressive as a reporter. I still remember getting a chuckle out of the Twitter exchange he had with the guy from Peachtree Hoops (Kris Willis, i think) about how he just regurgitates PTree Hoops articles. That was hilarious.

Ah yes, I believe it was Jason Walker doing that? @Dolfan23 was kind enough to loosely put the interaction up in a thread:

http://hawksquawk.net/community/topic/390373-wow-jason-walker-and-c-viv-are-going-at-it-on-twitter/page-1

(there might have been another exchange involving Viv, the guy has....uhhhh...some strange interactions at times....)

[thecampster]

The glass is neither half empty nor half full....your glass is twice as big as it needs to be. 

Edited August 11, 2015 by thecampster

[macdaddy]

The glass is neither half empty nor half full....your glass is twice as big as it needs to be. 

 

[Guest]

Have no fear, C-Viv is here:

 

Lou Williams and his Uptown Sounds team won the Atlanta Entertainment Basketball League championship Sunday, the second straight title for the local NBA player. Williams, from South Gwinnett High who signed with the Los Angeles Lakers this summer, had a team that featured fellow NBA players Josh Smith (Los Angeles Clippers), Mike Scott (Atlanta Hawks) and Kentavious Caldwell-Pope (Detroit Pistons). Williams, Smith and Scott played also played together with the Hawks. Caldwell-Pope also played at Greenville High and the University of Georgia.

Uptown Sounds defeated ATL Dream Team 81-68 in the championship at Grady High School. Former NBA player Damien Wilkins played for ATL Dream Team. Uptown Sounds advanced to the title game with an 80-70 win over Team Freeze on Saturday.

The conclusion of the AEBL season also featured several contests with Bobby Brown of Coalition DJs winning the slam dunk contest and Emmanuel Holloway of HDMD winning the 3-point shooting contest.

The event also featured a celebrity influencer game that included former NBA player and current Toronto Raptors assistant coach Jerry Stackhouse, former NBA player Stephen Jackson and recording artists K Camp, Que, Mykko Montana and Scotty ATL.

The AEBL summer league was founded in 2013 and runs from June through August with games at Grady High School.

http://atlantahawks.blog.ajc.com/2015/08/11/lou-williams-uptown-sounds-defends-aebl-title/

Again. Nothing on Mike Scott from Viv except the note of Mike playing in Lou's league and a picture of him:

(caption makes no reference to Mike, just Lou which is kind of understandable)

The non-coverage certainly seems like a wink-wink agreement from Hawks management....or incompetence on the beat writer? Both?

Edited August 11, 2015 by hawksfanatic

[MaceCase]

Is it a tradition by Hawks brass that is passed down through different owners and front offices that they are going to Soviet state the media?  I'm sure in the past the reporters have laughed at the policy and said "it's the frickin Hawks, not the Cowboys" but now C-Viv might be sweating a lil with the added national coverage over the past year.  Nowadays he sits at a press conference with some kid half his age yet working at a better paper, listening to him complain on his techno doodad about how he's the new guy he gets all the shitty assignments.  Something like that would jar him in to marching in lockstep with the PR Tsar's media policies so he can get whatever inside scoop possible.  Have my doubts though, I just feel it's incompetence.

[sturt]

Salient point from NBA.com's CBA 101 pdf...

 

 

Didn't know that at the time of the first post.

 

However, based on his e-mail reply from about a week ago to me, it appears that C-Viv never bothered to consult the information that is most readily available.

 

[Guest]

Incompetence and making shit up it is.

Ask Viv to reference the part in the CBA that says legal matters must be resolved before any NBA action can occur... That should be a good one.

[MaceCase]

Incompetence and making shit up it is.

Ask Viv to reference the part in the CBA that says legal matters must be resolved before any NBA action can occur... That should be a good one.

I kind of remember that section saying the exact opposite but it was worded in a manner where I decided to yell out "this is why I chose to major in science and not literature, daaaaaad!"

 

It's something along the lines that the NBA can punish a player if they felt the circumstances surrounding the legal matter warrants it....which made me go "huh?".  Does that mean that Scott could get suspended well before his case sees the light of day just because the brass warned him about that no good Imhotep beforehand?

[Guest]

I kind of remember that section saying the exact opposite but it was worded in a manner where I decided to yell out "this is why I chose to major in science and not literature, daaaaaad!"

Wait, isn't it usually the other way around? Dad's want the science and hate when their kid goes into a fruity-foo-foo major like literature, right?

 

It's something along the lines that the NBA can punish a player if they felt the circumstances surrounding the legal matter warrants it....which made me go "huh?".  Does that mean that Scott could get suspended well before his case sees the light of day just because the brass warned him about that no good Imhotep beforehand?

Oh, you mean like under Article VI on Player Conduct:

 

Section 15. Player Arrests.

A Team shall not impose discipline on a player solely on the basis of the fact that the player has been arrested. Notwithstanding the foregoing, (a) a Team may impose discipline on a player for the conduct underlying the player’s arrest if it has an independent basis for doing so, (b) nothing herein shall permit a Team to discipline a player for his failure to cooperate with a Team’s investigation of his alleged misconduct if he has a reasonable apprehension of criminal prosecution, and © nothing herein shall prevent a Team from precluding a player from participating in Team activities without loss of pay to the extent it otherwise has the right to do so.

Yeeaaaahhh....so what we have here is a bit of double-talk but the CBA is still clear. You cannot punish someone based only off of an arrest, but if a Team digs a bit deeper then they can slap on a supplementary reason to discipline (think Jeffrey Taylor when Charlotte suspended him before he ever pleaded to anything in his domestic violence case. That happened in September, but then in November the NBA came down with a 24 game suspension of him. So the first suspension wasn't due to an arrest but rather Charlotte made up some other excuse like bad press....and of course Michelle Roberts talked a lot but nothing really came from her talking).

Then, there is loosely a Fif Amendment thing going on for players. While the NBA or a Team can conduct an investigation of them, cooperation cannot interfere with the potential criminal charges. This didn't have to happen, but the NBPA managed to get it into the negotiations.

And finally, well so long as there is *some reason* to believe it then a team can suspend a player. Which kind of trumps the things before and makes the CBA double-talky but hey that's lawyers for ya.

(There's also another fun section about how a player cannot be punished twice for the same incident. So after the NBA had the 24 game suspension for Jeffrey, the Hornets could not extend the suspension...unless they get shady and make up a different excuse, but the NBPA would have a major fit about that. But this double-jeopardy rule also makes it clear that the Hawks need to wait on the NBA to do their investigative bit on Mike Scott before they can pursue any sanctions/suspensions/whatever.)

Edited August 11, 2015 by hawksfanatic

[MaceCase]

Wait, isn't it usually the other way around? Dad's want the science and hate when their kid goes into a fruity-foo-foo major like literature, right?

 

Oh, you mean like under Article VI on Player Conduct:

 

Yeeaaaahhh....so what we have here is a bit of double-talk but the CBA is still clear. You cannot punish someone based only off of an arrest, but if a Team digs a bit deeper then they can slap on a supplementary reason to discipline (think Jeffrey Taylor when Charlotte suspended him before he ever pleaded to anything in his domestic violence case. That happened in September, but then in November the NBA came down with a 24 game suspension of him. So the first suspension wasn't due to an arrest but rather Charlotte made up some other excuse like bad press....and of course Michelle Roberts talked a lot but nothing really came from her talking).

Then, there is loosely a Fif Amendment thing going on for players. While the NBA or a Team can conduct an investigation of them, cooperation cannot interfere with the potential criminal charges. This didn't have to happen, but the NBPA managed to get it into the negotiations.

And finally, well so long as there is *some reason* to believe it then a team can suspend a player. Which kind of trumps the things before and makes the CBA double-talky but hey that's lawyers for ya.

(There's also another fun section about how a player cannot be punished twice for the same incident. So after the NBA had the 24 game suspension for Jeffrey, the Hornets could not extend the suspension...unless they get shady and make up a different excuse, but the NBPA would have a major fit about that. But this double-jeopardy rule also makes it clear that the Hawks need to wait on the NBA to do their investigative bit on Mike Scott before they can pursue any sanctions/suspensions/whatever.)

Well my father worked in journalism and politics so science is foofoo unless you have a white coat and stethoscope and even then you still make a boring dinner conversationalist.

 

Yea, it was the "notwithstanding the foregoing' that made me trip.  It was like the Rick James interview on Chappelle's where he's saying why would I be grinding my dirty boots in a man's couch? I got more sense than that.......yea I ground my dirty boots in his couch.  The NBA is like yea we won't punish you until your legal matter is settled but ah, we gonna punish you before your legal matter is settled.

 

Either way, you'd think a journalist such as C-Viv would understand fact checking.  One part of me believes that it's incompetence yet another part tells me that it's arrogance because he thinks we're too stupid to check and just take his word for it.

[AHF]

That section on player arrests is written like a lot of laws on hiring.  In many cases, the mere fact of the arrest can't be used to disqualify someone.  However, notwithstanding that language, an employer can disqualify someone based on the facts underlying the arrest.  So the fact that you were convicted of a crime is not enough, but the fact that were driving drunk and now want to drive a school bus is a good reason to disqualify you.  

 

Conversely, if the crime was reckless speeding and the job is smashing rocks with a hammer or writing computer code and has no job responsibility requiring driving then the nexus between those is probably not close enough to support disqualification.

Edited August 11, 2015 by AHF

[Mdizzle5]

Delete

Edited August 11, 2015 by Mdizzle5

[Guest]

Either way, you'd think a journalist such as C-Viv would understand fact checking.  One part of me believes that it's incompetence yet another part tells me that it's arrogance because he thinks we're too stupid to check and just take his word for it.

If your pops is in journalism and you also get that impression then ... well .... yeah. I agree that journalists get this weird sense of arrogance that they must be smarter than their readers. And the average journalist is probably right for about 75% or so of their readership. A really good journalist might be smarter than 99+% of their readership. For the average journalist, that doesn't imply you should be dismissive of comments because holy heck maybe it's something you didn't think of! I don't get that impression with Mr. Charley Vivlamore on particular topics.

I cannot recall the spot where I stumbled across some wise words, but I recall someone telling me something to the effect of "if you are assuming I am (others are) stupid, then that says more about you than me (others)." I get that impression from a whole heck of a lot of journalists, especially the bad ones.

[Guest]

That section on player arrests is written like a lot of laws on hiring.

(double checks what he wrote)

OK I got in a jab to make fun of lawyers on this issue, so I won't conjure up another one.

[AHF]

(double checks what he wrote)

OK I got in a jab to make fun of lawyers on this issue, so I won't conjure up another one.

 

Its written like that so people don't automatically disqualify or punish people based on arrests and/or convictions but have to actually dig more into the facts.  Its not a terrible concept.  

 

 For the average journalist, that doesn't imply you should be dismissive of comments because holy heck maybe it's something you didn't think of!

 

You've definitely been on the receiving end of that dismissive attitude from a number of different reporters.  For some reporters, they don't like being wrong and you suggesting that they might be is viewed as an insult.  With your gentle touch, a number of them have come off looking like #$#*&s when you've shown them the error of their ways (and they refuse to accept it).

[Guest]

Its written like that so people don't automatically disqualify or punish people based on arrests and/or convictions but have to actually dig more into the facts.  Its not a terrible concept.

The verbiage seems clumsy and their point could be expressed more clearly with fewer words. It seems unnecessarily complicated, but that's one of the things with specific professions. It's intentionally written with the intended audience being lawyers to keep lawyers involved in these things. Same for reading documentation for computer programs, scientific journals, historical documents, etc. Lawyers just appear to me to be the most prominent and excessive abusers of this annoying issue.

 

 

You've definitely been on the receiving end of that dismissive attitude from a number of different reporters.  For some reporters, they don't like being wrong and you suggesting that they might be is viewed as an insult.  With your gentle touch, a number of them have come off looking like #$#*&s when you've shown them the error of their ways (and they refuse to accept it).

Haha, yeah me with a "gentle" touch. Me, on a good day of telling someone they are wrong, is still an asshole compared to you on your worst. But certain types of people, and journalists are more public than others, just cannot deal with being wrong. So they are either dismissive or try and convince themself that they are right instead of figuring out the truth.