Bud without Ferry = FAIL!!!

[skimaskway23]

15 minutes ago, JETSET said:

You seemed to have completely missed my point.  Millsap, Demarre, Kyle, Kent.  These guys weren't household names or promising young stars when Ferry poached them for next to nothing. 

Aside from Millsap, none played exceptionally well until there 2nd season in our system.

That's why a Hardaway or holiday can't truly be judged as bad acquisitions. They are being groomed as is edy or Dennis for that matter.

Yall want these moves to pay dividends immediately, but those types of players are going to COST. You don't get major contributors for cheap in this league.

[Alex]

I'd rather Kelly Oubre than Hardaway or Holiday.  

[Guest]

Just now, Alex said:

I'd rather Kelly Oubre than Hardaway or Holiday.  

[Atlantaholic]

Yes, let's evaluate a GM after less than one full season. This  sounds fair.

Edited February 3, 2016 by Atlantaholic

[QuantumHawkz]

It was a bad deal all the way around. Can't blame Bud for the way the team is performing. You can tell he's not pleased with the lack of effort on both ends. Just watching the games from home I can see that. Those timeouts are something else. Most times he's frustration is aimed at Teague.....the way he looks at Teague sometimes is just crazy.

[AHF]

21 hours ago, skimaskway23 said:

Aside from Millsap, none played exceptionally well until there 2nd season in our system.

That's why a Hardaway or holiday can't truly be judged as bad acquisitions. They are being groomed as is edy or Dennis for that matter.

Yall want these moves to pay dividends immediately, but those types of players are going to COST. You don't get major contributors for cheap in this league.

Hardaway and Holiday are in very different positions.  You are giving up nothing but a roster spot for Holiday.  If it takes him a year, so be it.  Him entering the rotation as a valuable player makes total sense for a low salary bench player.

Giving up the #15 pick to go shopping and coming down with a guy who has 2 years before he is a free agent is not the situation to be in to spend a year developing him.  So you give up 4 years of the #15 pick for 1 year of development and 1 year of a guy being a valuable rotation player from the bench?   Where does that make sense?

[skimaskway23]

3 minutes ago, AHF said:

Hardaway and Holiday are in very different positions.  You are giving up nothing but a roster spot for Holiday.  If it takes him a year, so be it.  Him entering the rotation as a valuable player makes total sense for a low salary bench player.

Giving up the #15 pick to go shopping and coming down with a guy who has 2 years before he is a free agent is not the situation to be in to spend a year developing him.  So you give up 4 years of the #15 pick for 1 year of development and 1 year of a guy being a valuable rotation player from the bench?   Where does that make sense?

Because said rookie might not be ready 3 years down the line. Kelly oubre is not ready to contribute.  Tim is closer.  I mean look at Dennis, for as good as he is we still have 2nd thoughts of handing the starting position to him. 

[AHF]

3 hours ago, skimaskway23 said:

Because said rookie might not be ready 3 years down the line. Kelly oubre is not ready to contribute.  Tim is closer.  I mean look at Dennis, for as good as he is we still have 2nd thoughts of handing the starting position to him. 

Dennis is a prime example of what I would like to have instead of THJr.  Mr.  Closer to Ready Young Vet and his 8.4 PER aren't doing a lot for me. Dennis - who is 1 year younger than THJr and has a much brighter future - is a good contrast.  There are 22 rookies with more minutes than THJr and 18 with a better WS/48.  All of them are younger and have 2 more years of team control before free agency.

[skimaskway23]

34 minutes ago, AHF said:

Dennis is a prime example of what I would like to have instead of THJr.  Mr.  Closer to Ready Young Vet and his 8.4 PER aren't doing a lot for me. Dennis - who is 1 year younger than THJr and has a much brighter future - is a good contrast.  There are 22 rookies with more minutes than THJr and 18 with a better WS/48.  All of them are younger and have 2 more years of team control before free agency.

Tim Hardaway must have stole your girlfriend. I can go back and forth with you all day but I'm not changing the fact you don't like him.

 

I said he will improve like several of our players have and now you move on to something different. Contract length doesn't effect wins n losses. Tim will improve, deal with it.

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, skimaskway23 said:

Tim Hardaway must have stole your girlfriend. I can go back and forth with you all day but I'm not changing the fact you don't like him.

I said he will improve like several of our players have and now you move on to something different. Contract length doesn't effect wins n losses. Tim will improve, deal with it.

The ASPCA is after him for dead-horse beating.

[AHF]

I shut up about him until I see people praising his craptastic play (he is most improved in  the worst season of his career!) or making excuses for his poor play (if you only count the games where he shot well he looks decent!).  

If you say that he has sucked so far but has taken the first steps which will hopefully turn him from terrible (early this year) to bad (now) to solid role player (future) then I am not arguing that.

Just don't give me someone 23 years old and tell me why he is too young to play on a team that is starved for anyone who can be even subpar on the wing or someone shooting  25% from 3pt range and tell me he is a marksman.  Then you can expect me to pop up and drop facts to bring us back to reality.  Dropping facts apparently constitutes hating now, I guess.

[NBASupes]

1 hour ago, AHF said:

Dennis is a prime example of what I would like to have instead of THJr.  Mr.  Closer to Ready Young Vet and his 8.4 PER aren't doing a lot for me. Dennis - who is 1 year younger than THJr and has a much brighter future - is a good contrast.  There are 22 rookies with more minutes than THJr and 18 with a better WS/48.  All of them are younger and have 2 more years of team control before free agency.

We drafted Kelly Oubre, then traded him. So sad

[AHF]

42 minutes ago, skimaskway23 said:

Tim Hardaway must have stole your girlfriend. I can go back and forth with you all day but I'm not changing the fact you don't like him.

 

I said he will improve like several of our players have and now you move on to something different. Contract length doesn't effect wins n losses. Tim will improve, deal with it.

On the substance here, I have been against the trade from the beginning because I didn't think he showed enough promise in NY to justify giving up the #15 pick.  I have disliked the fact that we gave up 2 years of team control for a guy who I didn't think was a notably better talent.  So I hope you are right that he will improve.  I am saying that he can improve and still prove the trade to be a fail if he doesn't improve very quickly.  He needs to contribute sooner than later if you are giving up on higher career upside and 2 years of team control.  

That is why I distinguished between him and Holiday.  I haven't moved on to anything different.

If we gave up nothing for THJr, then I would be fine to see him shooting bricks but showing minor improvements on D.  However, this team desperately needs wing production and with an asset like the #15 pick, you either need to get a good long-term asset or get something that fills that need immediately.  That is the lens through which I am judging the trade.

To date, THJr hasn't come through on the rapid contribution that was supposed to flow from his 3500+ minutes in the NBA coming into this year and he hasn't shown the upside to make me think that the trade looks good.  I think you can be critical of the trade more quickly than a minimum salary free agent signing because this team was supposed to be a contender adding depth for the present with that deal.

[Diesel]

On 2/1/2016 at 4:29 PM, JayBirdHawk said:

Per Chris Mannix (atlanta radio, so no link),

The gist of it is:

Hawks have determined that they are not in position to compete for a Championship. Asking price for Al and Teague is high. IIRC, I heard  minimum of a 1st round pick and a young SF but not sure if that was for Al or Teague or both.

Ready to turn team over to Dennis, see him in a Tony Parker role.

Gosh, the lack of sight.

We have 2 good PGs.  What's the problem with that?  We really don't have the wing problem we say we have.. We have plenty of wings.  We look like KFC with all the wings we have.

Our problem is that we don't rebound well.  I take it that that's just a matter of effort.   In the playoffs, I expect the effort will be pumped up.  The idea that just because we haven't started a firesale that we're not trying to compete for a Championship is ridiculous.

Remind me of the championship transaction that GS made last year?

[AHF]

If you want to use a fast food slogan for our wings, it should be "Where's the beef?"

Lots of bad options this year.  Not much productivity beyond Thabo and Baze.