Schröder.

[Diesel]

People give props to Schröder for his play in game 4.  I saw it as Hero ball.   I still think he's more liable to abandon and offensive game plan and do his own thing.  On the last play of the game, we had open shooters on the perimeter.  He runs into Lebron and gets tangled into a jump ball situation.

I still don't believe that he will ever conform to being a PG.  Teague may be too timid to do it all the time.  The answer may be elsewhere.  I don't know.

 

[NBASupes]

Teague is Teague. Special talent but he just isn't consistently aggressive. That's fine if we had a #1 option but not as we stand.

Dennis has special talent but decision making isn't his friend. Both are very good talents and Jeff is a very good player. We should keep them both unless we get a very good offer.

[Diesel]

3 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Teague is Teague. Special talent but he just isn't consistently aggressive. That's fine if we had a #1 option but not as we stand.

Dennis has special talent but decision making isn't his friend. Both are very good talents and Jeff is a very good player. We should keep them both unless we get a very good offer.

I like the rotation of Teague/Schröder because together, they make up for each other's deficiencies.   If we were to trade one, I think the other would be headed downhill unless we did get a superstar.

For instance, if it were at all possible to get Durant, I think Problem solved.   The two headed PG + Durant = ECF easily.

Without such a move, I think we're always tempted to use one to bring in a star or psuedostar.  This offseason is delicate.  However, I don't want people to take Dennis' aggressive with no regard for offensive scheme or structure as a great PG.  It's not that.  It's like Calling Young Randall Cunningham a great QB.

 

 

[Thomas]

2 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Teague is Teague. Special talent but he just isn't consistently aggressive. That's fine if we had a #1 option but not as we stand.

Dennis has special talent but decision making isn't his friend. Both are very good talents and Jeff is a very good player. We should keep them both unless we get a very good offer.

Agreed. A year from now is going to be interesting trying to keep both. If one does leave by trade or bolting a year from now I'm guessing a second round pick (not likely a first in 2016 or 2017) and a journeyman as backups. In this years draft the nbadraft.net site at one time  speculated we would take Gary Payton II. He has the right DNA.   

[scjena]

Did you listen to Coach bud at the post press conference ? In my opinion he did that, what coach bud wanted from him. He had some games during the regular season as a pass first PG and did a great job on that but his role as a energizer from the bench who attacks the basket was more asked.

[Diesel]

4 minutes ago, scjena said:

Did you listen to Coach bud at the post press conference ? In my opinion he did that, what coach bud wanted from him. He had some games during the regular season as a pass first PG and did a great job on that but his role as a energizer from the bench who attacks the basket was more asked.

IF that's the thing.. then it's Bud's fault.  With Frank Vogel being out there, I would move to get him in as an assistant (defensive) and then if Bud keeps making bone head decisions, Replace him with Frank.

[Bankingitbig]

Schröder had 6 assists and only 2 TOs in 25mins vs. Teague at 2 assists and 3 TOs in 22mins.. He clearly played the PG position better than Teague - not even counting the fact that Schröder was our top scorer and basically kept us in the game. I'm sorry, but I have seen too many Hawks be timid in close situations like that and I was glad to not see that from Schröder, even though it didn't work out. As a coach, why wouldn't you want Schröder to drive the ball in that situation with Delly on him? In fact, I am surprised Bud didn't use Schröder + Teague together more often, as there really wasn't anyone on the Cavs that could stop their penetration.

[NBASupes]

3 minutes ago, Bankingitbig said:

Schröder had 6 assists and only 2 TOs in 25mins vs. Teague at 2 assists and 3 TOs in 22mins.. He clearly played the PG position better than Teague - not even counting the fact that Schröder was our top scorer and basically kept us in the game. I'm sorry, but I have seen too many Hawks be timid in close situations like that and I was glad to not see that from Schröder, even though it didn't work out. As a coach, why wouldn't you want Schröder to drive the ball in that situation with Delly on him? In fact, I am surprised Bud didn't use Schröder + Teague together more often, as there really wasn't anyone on the Cavs that could stop their penetration.

That's one game. We don't make opinions on just one game. Desmond Howard would be the best player in the NFL if the Packers based his value on just one game.

[Guest]

33 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Teague is Teague. Special talent but he just isn't consistently aggressive. That's fine if we had a #1 option but not as we stand.

Dennis has special talent but decision making isn't his friend. Both are very good talents and Jeff is a very good player. We should keep them both unless we get a very good offer.

It's funny.  Watching these playoffs I think a case could be made for keeping both or getting rid of both.  Teague is Teague.  Has the talent to be much better but ... just isn't.  Sure Dennis played well (for the most part in round 2), but if he were the starter in round 1 we probably don't advance (so folks calling for him to definitively be the starter seems a little short-sighted to me).

They compliment each other in a weird way.   If we get good Jeff and good Dennis more often than not, we'd be formidable.  But we just never see that, so do we keep them and bang our heads against that brick wall again?

I think we should keep them and shuffle our wangs and bigs(sic).  Speaking of which, why don't we see that aggressive game-3 Alison more often?  You're the designated Al spokesman.  That's why I'm asking you.

18 minutes ago, Diesel said:

IF that's the thing.. then it's Bud's fault.  With Frank Vogel being out there, I would move to get him in as an assistant (defensive) and then if Bud keeps making bone head decisions, Replace him with Frank.

So you're saying the President/Coach should hire Vogel with eyes on eventually replacing him once he's fired?  You bak to day-drinkin' again?  @hawksfanatic we need to organize an HS AA meeting.  As our resident drunky I'm sure you have contacts?

[NBASupes]

Good Jeff or bad and same for Dennis, we always beat our opponents regardless of the match up at the position. That is more than what we can say for our wings.

[DocWilkins]

There is good Jeff and then there is D League Teague...When he is off the rails he sulks, whines and is completely ineffective. When he is on he is a lot to handle. Unfortunately an All-star PG should not be riding the pine in the 4th quarter of an elimination game to the likes of Dennis. Dennis is the modern microwave. A shoot first guard that can rescue you or kill you. Dennis has more upside than Jeff but I am not convinced either are the long term answer. This conundrum must drive Bud completely insane. Certainly does me. 

Edited May 9, 2016 by DocWilkins

[NBASupes]

Just now, DocWilkins said:

There is good Jeff and then there is D League Teague...When he is off the rails he sulks, whines and is completely ineffective. When he is on he is a lot to handle. Unfortunately an All-star PG should not be riding the pine in the 4th quarter of an elimination game to the likes of Dennis. Dennis is the modern microwave. A shoot first guard that can rescue you or kill you. Dennis has more upside than Jeff but I am not convinced either are the long term answer. This conundrum must drive Bud completely insane. 

Since when has D league Jeff happen? He's always running the offense and playing good defense. The issue is aggressiveness with him. Now, we have saw D league Dennis and superstar Dennis. He's the hot and cold one of the two.

[rd79]

Actually Dennis last drive wasn't that bad. He stopped, avoided the block and faked, this was something else than he did his last drives so it was a good try for me. Who else should have taken the shot instead? We were like 3/100000 from behind the arc since half and everybody else struggled to make baskets in the 4th at all... If he passes this ball, everybody else would have made another pass until a rushed shot with 0.3 sec left...

Bud has to choose his PG now. You cannot be prepared better for such clutch moments if you sit on the bench at the end of games.

Dennis reached a level where he needs startimg minutes and regular clutch moments to improve!

This situation doesn't fit Jeff either.

[DocWilkins]

2 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Since when has D league Jeff happen? He's always running the offense and playing good defense. The issue is aggressiveness with him. Now, we have saw D league Dennis and superstar Dennis. He's the hot and cold one of the two.

Did you watch the series versus the Cavs?...Dennis outplayed Teague and Jeff is a poor on ball defender. Always has been. Bud certainly recognizes Teague's lack of aggression and basically says Dennis is the guy to come in and be a catalyst. Why is that? Why can't Jeff be consistently aggressive. When things don't go his way he doesn't recover.  Opinions vary but when Jeff is bad....He is real bad. So you are OK with Jeff being passive in an elimination playoff game? Unacceptable. 

[NBASupes]

I am not judging anyone for their whole season or several seasons on one or two games. This is not Football and even then, I wouldn't do that.

[DocWilkins]

Just now, NBASupes said:

I am not judging anyone for their whole season or several seasons on one or two games. This is not Football and even then, I wouldn't do that.

Nor am I...This has been a problem with Jeff since the jump...Jeff had one great series against the Bulls and we all thought he would naturally be that way going forward. Nope didn't happen. Jeff has been inconsistent for the past 7 years. Sorry, we will just agree to disagree on this one, 

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

I am not judging anyone for their whole season or several seasons on one or two games. This is not Football and even then, I wouldn't do that.

Hmmm, what's that smell?  Smells like a cop out.  The question is why isn't Jeff aggressive all the time.  When he's passive he's a net negative out there.  That's been the case since he's been here basically.  So you're being asked not to judge him based on 1-2 games, but to judge him based on his entire career up to this point.

I agree with your sentiment that Jeff shouldn't be bearing too much of the blame for our loss.  But, like I hinted at earlier, if we get good Jeff every game we're exponentially better as a team.  I think that's true whether we get good Dennis or not.

[Bankingitbig]

Jeff has one more year left on his contract. We should be trying to trade him before we lose him for nothing. Give the keys to Dennis and let him develop even more by getting all the playing time during crucial situations. Not saying we are going to win a championship next year with Dennis at starting PG, but it is obvious that he is long-term answer and Jeff Demarco Teague is not.

[skimaskway23]

It's simple economics. Surplus of point guards and a shortage of good wings. Gotta give one up and I prefer the one that has that "dog" in him and that's Dennis.  

[Guest]

I like both our points and they wirk well as a tandem. But sooner or later one will be gone soneway somehow.

It's always  the same issue with Teague and his agressiveness. We keep wanting more but sometimes we need to just admit that's who Jeff is - wanting him to be more than he actually is.

Is Dennis ready to start? Hell no. But would I be ok if he did, hell yes. 

You can't  teach confidence.  He has a confidence that does not yet match his play.  I prefer him wanting to do too much to try and win than not doing enough to help us win or lose. I prefer him making mistakes going full speed than the same mistakes half assing it.  Basketball mistakes you can work on and correct. Sometimes you learn by doing.