Schröder.

[Diesel]

11 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

You use those guys because they are just that talented.

[kurupt]

Zitat

Dennis may be young, but he's been playing with grown men since 16.  He came here with a "chip" on his shoulder.  His brashness is part of the reason many people like him so much.  His brashness is the reason why he's so aggressive.  However, by the same token, his brashness is why HE won't conform to a system that tells him that he's not supposed to be brash all the time. He has good BBIQ for PNR ball.  However, he's not going to change everything that he grew up with and do what is against his nature. 

Stop posting bullshit about things you don't know shit about. I seriously hope Schröder gives your girl back to you or whatever he may have done to you.

I watched Schröder since he started to play organized Basketball and I know the coach that brought him up.  Dennis in Europe was as much a floor general as anyone at that age, leading his leagues in assists every single year, and earlier had to be begged to take over games with scoring (and by the way, he played with 20 years and under players 90% of the time), even though it was incredibly easy for him to do so. He wants to dominate, but he does not care whether it is scoring, running the team or destroying his opponent with his defense - he actually prefers (or maybe preferred) the latter two.

Since he is one of the only scoring threats off the bench, especially this season with Bazemore getting a starting spot and not being replaced adequately, his role is of course different from Teagues. He played with THJr, Sefolosha, Mike Scott and Muscala. Mike Scott is the only not awful player offensively and he even he is off and on. Do you really think you can play the same way with tehse gus as you can with Korver, Bazemore, Millsap and Horford? Don't be stupid.

And if you think that his way of playing  is not intended and actually demanend of him by the coaching staff, you may actually be the fool your post make you seem to be. You really think a player that would ignore what he is supposed to do would get his minutes and would finish more and more games as the season went on, including elimination games in the playoffs, if the coaching staff wasn't happy and confident with him overall? Are you kidding me?

 

The question the Hawks have to answer this offseason is this:

Do you rather have 28-33 year old Jeff Teague for 12+ millions a year (probably 4-5 year contract) or 23 year old Schröder for ~8 millions a year (probably on a shorter contract, if I were Schröder). Schröder is leaps and bounds better on defense already, and even if a lot of the other skills may (or may not) be still slightly better than Schröders,  do you want to bet that Schröder does not improve to Teagues level within the next couple of years?

The money saved alone would make me pick Schröder, plus you at least have the chance of getting a better player, because Teague is what he is at this point: a good starting PG (neither one of them will ever be  one of the 2 best players on a championship team). Also you gain more time. If you keep Teague, you will get a few more years in his prime and then end up with an old PG that relies on his quickness with (currently) no backup plan. If you keep Schröder you will have at least 7 more years of this level of production.

Edited May 17, 2016 by kurupt

[Diesel]

5 minutes ago, kurupt said:

Stop posting bullshit about things you don't know shit about. I seriously hope Schröder gives your girl back to you or whatever he may have done to you.

I watched Schröder since he started to play organized Basketball and I know the coach that brought him up.  Dennis in Europe was as much a floor general as anyone at that age, leading his leagues in assists every single year, and earlier had to be begged to take over games with scoring (and by the way, he played with 20 years and under players 90% of the time), even though it was incredibly easy for him to do so. He wants to dominate, but he does not care whether it is scoring, running the team or destroying his opponent with his defense - he actually prefers (or maybe preferred) the latter two.

Since he is one of the only scoring threats off the bench, especially this season with Bazemore getting a starting spot and not being replaced adequately, his role is of course different from Teagues. He played with THJr, Sefolosha, Mike Scott and Muscala. Mike Scott is the only not awful player offensively and he even he is off and on. Do you really think you can play the same way with tehse gus as you can with Korver, Bazemore, Millsap and Horford? Don't be stupid.

 

Speaking of not knowing shit... First off, you think that we just sub everybody at once?  Most of the time Dennis was on the floor, he was on the floor with a mix of starters and maybe one other bench player.   I don't know how you all do it in Germany but we don't have 2nd teams.. we have reserves.  Dennis was the top reserve.  That meant that he spent just as much time on the floor as Teague.  That's why our combination was dangerous.  Secondly, that's a strong disrespect to Scott, and Sefolosha who has shown that they are able to score if they ever get a pass.  Hell, Sef may have been our best shooter from distance... but you probably would never know that because IsoSchro left a lot of players with outstretched hands.

Notice, I never doubted Schroe's ability to get assist.  In fact, I think he is a Master at PNR basketball.  Probably what he probably did most in Germany.   However, for us, we do some PNR and some PNP but the basis of our offense is pass to the best shot.  When you set by your 20 inch Black and White TV in Germany, did you see Shroe pass up shots to pass to a guy with a better shot often?  ON my 70' HD TV, I can't tell you how many times I have screamed at the set hoping that he would hear me and pass to the more open guy.   Or how many times he would pull the ball down, start an ISo move, see trouble and throw the ball to a space on the floor.   German arrogance says a guy should have been there right?? 

 

[kurupt]

Oh my god, I totally did not see that we are not in the NHL and don't switch out blocks at a time. Thank you, mate! How could I not see that Schröder plays ans many minutes as Teague? The moron I am thought that 20 =/= 28! No wonder I was that bad at maths in school! And of course, Teague played as many minutes with the bench players as Schröder! How could I miss that? IT IS ALL THE SAME, YOU ARE RIGHT!

And now, if only there was a way to prove that Schröder prefers to chuck the ball at an insane rate, because he misses so many obvious passes. Oh wait, there is and he shoots at basically the same clip as Teague does. AS I HAVE ALREADY SHOWN YOU IN ANOTHER POST.

Come back to me when you can back up any of your stupid claims with something more than you made-up bullshit.

But the nagain, you said Mack was better than Schröder, so...maybe it is just hopeless.

[rd79]

@Diesel we don't even have tv over here in Germany. That's why we only can evaluate players by their stats and advanced numbers. 

@kurupt don't care about @Diesel he isn't worth the effort...

[Guest]

C'mon, play nice guys.  Nothing wrong with having a healthy discussion but there's no need to be insulting.

WTF?  Am I the voice of reason here?

The offseason hasn't even started full-force yet!

[Diesel]

4 hours ago, kurupt said:

Oh my god, I totally did not see that we are not in the NHL and don't switch out blocks at a time. Thank you, mate! How could I not see that Schröder plays ans many minutes as Teague? The moron I am thought that 20 =/= 28! No wonder I was that bad at maths in school! And of course, Teague played as many minutes with the bench players as Schröder! How could I miss that? IT IS ALL THE SAME, YOU ARE RIGHT!

And now, if only there was a way to prove that Schröder prefers to chuck the ball at an insane rate, because he misses so many obvious passes. Oh wait, there is and he shoots at basically the same clip as Teague does. AS I HAVE ALREADY SHOWN YOU IN ANOTHER POST.

Come back to me when you can back up any of your stupid claims with something more than you made-up bullshit.

But the nagain, you said Mack was better than Schröder, so...maybe it is just hopeless.

Please.  At what Point was Shroe ever better than Mack?

Was it last years Playoffs?.... NO

Was it the year before Last playoffs?  No.

It was because he has more potential and really because we were paying him more that Bud played Dennis more.  But Dennis never TOOK the position from Mack.  He was handed the position over Mack.   That's why Mack went to Utah and balled out.  

 

[kurupt]

vor 26 Minuten, Diesel sagte:

Please.  At what Point was Shroe ever better than Mack?

Was it last years Playoffs?.... NO

Was it the year before Last playoffs?  No.

It was because he has more potential and really because we were paying him more that Bud played Dennis more.  But Dennis never TOOK the position from Mack.  He was handed the position over Mack.   That's why Mack went to Utah and balled out.  

 

q.e.d.

You are a retard, sorry. There is no area where Mack was ever better, even being an older, 4-year college veteran. Not even shooting, incredibly enough.

The fact hat you don't even know how much they earned in salaries these years is just funny. Get out of here!

I am done with you, you disgraced yourself enough.

Edited May 18, 2016 by kurupt

[Guest]

12 minutes ago, Diesel said:

Please.  At what Point was Shroe ever better than Mack?

Was it last years Playoffs?.... NO

Was it the year before Last playoffs?  No.

It was because he has more potential and really because we were paying him more that Bud played Dennis more.  But Dennis never TOOK the position from Mack.  He was handed the position over Mack.   That's why Mack went to Utah and balled out.  

 

Just stop with the crazy talk, now you are just being plain ole silly and sounding even worse talking  out of your ass.

1. Just as a reminder, Dennis initially was the backup in year 1 coming out of camp until he got benched  for knut punching Cousins. Mack stepped in and was servicable.

2. Year 2 he beat out Shelvin plain and simple and if you think Bud gave him the job because he was making more than Shelly, you couldn't  be MORE WRONG. Shelvin made more than Dennis then and is making more than Dennis  now. So your argument holds no water.

3.  Isn't  it a good thing he has more  potential and  you play that guy. And it's  not like Mack is some old vet, he's  also a young player and Dennis TOOK it, plain and simple.

4. You talk about ISO-Schröder,  'Ima-get-mine' Mack was on full display in Utah. Just ask Rodney Hood.

5. You need to just re-boot your Dieselputer cause it's  malfunctioning all over the Squawk.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

17 hours ago, Diesel said:

Isobasketball is horrible now.  Isobasketball is the Jordan Years... where Mark Jackson would call for somebody to clear out the lane and he would back his man down from Halfcourt.  That doesn't work.  Isoball is the Miami Heat all going dribble dribble dribble shoot... and hope that one man can get hot enough to carry the whole team.   Isoball is the past.  The team game is better. When you can get the whole team scoring and not be reliant on one guy to always save the day, you're playing better basketball.

Iso ball is a necessity when great playoff defenses can stifle an offensive system.  At that point, that's when you give the ball to your offensive superstar, and let him work.

[Diesel]

52 minutes ago, kurupt said:

q.e.d.

You are a retard, sorry. There is no area where Mack was ever better, even being an older, 4-year college veteran. Not even shooting, incredibly enough.

The fact hat you don't even know how much they earned in salaries these years is just funny. Get out of here!

I am done with you, you disgraced yourself enough.

Funny.  You didn't answer back with stats.   I thought that was your thing??

 

[kurupt]

vor 6 Minuten, Diesel sagte:

Funny.  You didn't answer back with stats.   I thought that was your thing??

 

You ignore them anyway and you could look them up yourself. Or you actually cannot, because your too stupid....then  I am actually sorry for you.

[Diesel]

1 hour ago, JayBirdHawk said:

2 minutes ago, kurupt said:

2 minutes ago, kurupt said:

You ignore them anyway and you could look them up yourself. Or you actually cannot, because your too stupid....then  I am actually sorry for you.

 

 

Insults.   The last refuge of the scoundrel.

 

[rd79]

2 hours ago, Diesel said:

Insults.   The last refuge of the scoundrel.

 

And you started it telling us how much bigger your co... ahhh TV is...

[gonzo]

uuuuh burned, it hurts i know.  Funny how i dont even have to read the whole thread but just know that rd is reasonable and you just a fish.... go rethink your point of view dude.  You should never implement someone elses intellect into these posts. But be assured i love you just asmuch, because i am the prophet of our saviour kgo1 (couldnt let this oppurtunity pass by) all hail to our great leader kg:D

[macdaddy]

We should have traded Mack for Dwight Howard.

 

[AHF]

Schröder's top 5 men units of 50+ minutes:

177 minutes - 1 starter (Horf)

73 minute - All starters

72 minutes - 2 starters (Korv / Horf)

56 minutes - 2 starters (Baze / Sap)

52 - 3 starters

51 - 1 starter

Total for lineups of 50+ minutes:  

14% of minutes with starters

10% with 3 starters

25% of minutes with 2 starters

50% of minutes with 1 starter

 

Teague's top 5 men units of 50+ minutes:

892 minutes - All starters

235 minutes - 3 starters (+ Sef)

106 minutes - 3 starters (+Sef)

59 minutes - 2 starters

Total:  892 minutes with all starters, 341 minutes with 3 starters, 59 minutes with 2 starters, 0 minutes with 1 starter

Total for lineups of 50+ minutes:  

69% of minutes with starters

26% with 3 starters

5% of minutes with 2 starters

0% of minutes with 1 starter

 

(These would change some with total minutes but they are the biggest lineups).

[bumpyphish1]

On 5/16/2016 at 6:59 AM, Diesel said:

I am more resolute than ever on this.  IF Dennis can get us Jaylen Brown (#6 Pelicans or #4 76ers) I say do it.   Not that I don't think that Dennis is a good PG.  I don't think Dennis would ever fit our system.  He's not a Bud system guy.   He gets stats but he doesn't make those around him better and that's what the system is supposed to do.   Meanwhile, he has collected value throughout the league and I believe enough value to make one of these teams give up their top ten pick for him.   If we can do it without giving up our first rounder I say do it.  IF it requires our first rounder, I say do it.  

This is the time that we have to make a move that helps us both now and into the future.  That's Jaylen Brown.

 

 

On 5/16/2016 at 5:36 PM, Diesel said:

Dennis' problem with the system is will not ability.  I agree, he has the ability to be better than Tony Parker, But I don't think he will ever have the will.  It's not even about basketball IQ.  It's about him wanting to be "the man" and not realizing that he can be the man running the system.

 

Dude, Schröder is the perfect  fit for the system.  He will be a great PG and it will be here.  He is not in the mold of a Jaylen Brown (and thankfully because that's not for Budball).  Dennis is perfect for Budball.  He is made for it.  He's 22 years-old, and Bud has got to be licking his chops knowing he will have Dennis to run his system for the long majority and peak years of his time coaching here.  Dennis is still raw/underdeveloped but that is to be expected from a young German.   He is getting better, will only continue to improve as Bud will demand perfection, and Dennis is the guy to run this pick and roll with 'Sap and Horf.  Hopefully, we add another major contributor who can score on the wing and of course another big to combat Tristan Thompson.  And whatever else in the draft.  Like Tony Parker, Dennis will begin his career as a guy who does not take many three's but his shooting will get better yearly and he'll eventually be reasonable shooter.  But early on, it won't and doesn't need to be a big part of his game.  He needs to cut down on his bad shots at the rim more than anything.  His stroke is getting better and will continue to though. 

Dennis not having "the will" or his "wanting to be 'the man' over the system" are BS assertions.  Dennis does not want to be "the man at the expense of the system" but he is willing to be the man.  Has cajones.  Cold-blooded.  Doesn't freeze up in crunch time.  We don't have another player I can say that about.  You can't teach it.  You harness it and instruct it to find balance with the system...as Bud will do.    

But, I just have to say, anyone under the illusion that Dennis isn't gonna be Bud's long term PG is under just that...an illusion.  We need to get past the if and move onto the "when" with Dennis.  We could not be further apart on Schröder, @Diesel.  Which is great...just don't be scared or overly hesitant to surrender to the flow when Dennis emerges and enjoy the ride. 

[Diesel]

2 hours ago, bumpyphish1 said:

Dennis not having "the will" or his "wanting to be 'the man' over the system" are BS assertions.  Dennis does not want to be "the man at the expense of the system" but he is willing to be the man.  

[bumpyphish1]

Um, very serious.  Nice meme.  Nice selective quote, too.

Dennis is like Rondo without the douche bag--I know, between Dennis's youth and Euro, it's hard to tell sometimes, but Dennis is a good kid who has a firmer head on his shoulders than Rajon ever did....and better skills and traits in other areas as well.  Dennis can be a leader.  He wants to be sufficiently involved (ie start/play more than 20 mpg) but I don't think he sees himself as better than any system.  Just has a little swag and pride...nothing we couldn't use more of on this team.  I see bits of Tony Parker and Rondo in Dennis.  Dennis will be an excellent pick and roll PG for years with his quickness and improved decision-making and feel.  Dennis has a quickness Parker never did yet some of the shooting limitations seen with Rondo...Dennis's shooting can still get much better though.  I think Dennis wants it more than Rondo and is a better human being.  Dennis is still so young and raw, brimming with upside.  Best case:  He has some of the best qualities of both Rondo and Parker without the shortcomings in temperament/shooting you see with Rajon while possessing a quickness Parker did not--Dennis needs to develop Parker's decision-making and savvy awareness...unlikely to ever develop certain intangibles Parker has brought but could be on par with "Parker level" as a best case for his career.  Hope he wins half the rings.