For the avoid a rebuild camp...

[Lurker]

That believes this team is close enough to challenging LeBron and doesn't need to accept being good but not great, I challenge you to do this:

How do you acquire two starting wing players for the team without giving up more than one of Teague/Millsap/Horford, especially when one of the wings needs to be a player that at least go shot for shot in the playoffs with an elite team when their team is in trouble? They don't have to average 20+ PPG in the regular season, but they have to be a guy in the playoffs that can drop 25-35 without the help of plays run for them.

And how do you acquire a shot blocking and rebounding presence in the middle?

There are 3 needs:

1. Legit 3D wing

2. 20+ PPG scorer

3. A shotblocking and rebounding presence

Here. Acquire all this for me without draining your assets. I'm all ears...

[Diesel]

A lot of wrong premises here.

First off, nobody says that we can only be good except you.

Secondly. IF you haven't noticed, we have become very good at developing Wings.

Lastly... you are the one who put in the need of a guy who can "Drop 25-35 without the help of plays run for them"... really... is there a player in the history of basketball that fits that?

Now here are some things.

1.  We don't know what Splitter will add.

2.  We do need a Wing of size.  Preferably someone who can shoot.

3.  A shotblocker/rebounder may not be necessary.. see 1.

 

Knee Jerker, it seems like your whole Plan is not just to dismantle the team but to also do away with Budball.   Nowhere in your premises did you seem to suggest that you believe that Budball can work in Atlanta.  In fact, you seem to want  us to go back to what hasn't been working for years.   i.e.  The search for the golden grail of Basketball players.  The Missing link of Atlanta.   We lose to the cavs and you want us to go back to panning for Gold in the much weaker draft.   Please.

 

[Lurker]

5 minutes ago, Diesel said:

We lose to the cavs

Do I have to repost what you TOTALLY ignored (I will but slightly different)? Here....

Here is what you need to beat LeBron James in a playoff series today:

1. A great defense that has not been helped by a system. By what I mean, a defense that is big and long and can stay in front of anyone, plus a good shotblocker and rebounder. STRIKE 1! The Hawks aren't even close to this.

2. Offensive players that can get their own shot without a play run for them when a play breaks down. STRIKE 2! No one can on this team outside the PGs.

3. An offensive player for while when the LBJ teams go on runs, they are able to help strike back consistently. STRIKE 3! YER OUT!

This is the type of team that LBJ DREAMS to face in the playoffs. They aren't even close to being able to beat him without several changes. And he's going to rule the east for at least 4 years longer.

So, are you fine with being LBJ's b***h for 4 more years?

 

[Lurker]

@Diesel

You don't want to admit it. Against Cleveland, outside of PG-PF pick and roll by the Hawks, every other play gets blown up entirely way too easily. They can't run plays against Cleveland as they KNOW Atlanta from back to front and they DREAM of facing an Atlanta team that is similar to it's form now, they know it's a week long vacation for them and they can coast.

Edited June 3, 2016 by Lurker

[Guest]

 

9 hours ago, Lurker said:

That believes this team is close enough to challenging LeBron and doesn't need to accept being good but not great, I challenge you to do this:

How do you acquire two starting wing players for the team without giving up more than one of Teague/Millsap/Horford, especially when one of the wings needs to be a player that at least go shot for shot in the playoffs with an elite team when their team is in trouble? They don't have to average 20+ PPG in the regular season, but they have to be a guy in the playoffs that can drop 25-35 without the help of plays run for them.

And how do you acquire a shot blocking and rebounding presence in the middle?

There are 3 needs:

1. Legit 3D wing

2. 20+ PPG scorer

3. A shotblocking and rebounding presence

Here. Acquire all this for me without draining your assets. I'm all ears...

I challenge you to first come up with a 'realistic' trade proposal that moves more than one of Teague/Millsap/Horford for two  starting wings and layout the entire plan for filling out the rest of the roster after that trade to show how the team in it's entirety will be better.  Start there, then maybe this is worth discussing (for me at least).

You make a statement in a vacuum without any additional parameters.  In a word it's just arbitrary.    

[Duff_Man]

Quote

They don't have to average 20+ PPG in the regular season, but they have to be a guy in the playoffs that can drop 25-35 without the help of plays run for them.

Holy hell is this just an imaginary concept. If you really think this, basketball is just not for you.

[Diesel]

10 hours ago, Lurker said:

Do I have to repost what you TOTALLY ignored (I will but slightly different)? Here....

Here is what you need to beat LeBron James in a playoff series today:

1. A great defense that has not been helped by a system. By what I mean, a defense that is big and long and can stay in front of anyone, plus a good shotblocker and rebounder. STRIKE 1! The Hawks aren't even close to this.

2. Offensive players that can get their own shot without a play run for them when a play breaks down. STRIKE 2! No one can on this team outside the PGs.

3. An offensive player for while when the LBJ teams go on runs, they are able to help strike back consistently. STRIKE 3! YER OUT!

This is the type of team that LBJ DREAMS to face in the playoffs. They aren't even close to being able to beat him without several changes. And he's going to rule the east for at least 4 years longer.

So, are you fine with being LBJ's b***h for 4 more years?

 

First off, rebuilding doesn't necessarily get you there.   Secondly, again you have diminished Budball.   The problem is that you don't understand Budball, you just automatically reject the premise that you don't need to have a superstar or that a team can win with a team concept.

Last night was perfect.  THE OTHERS whipped Cleveland's arse.   Not Steph... Not K.  But the others.   And it wasn't a hero ball situation.  It was them working as a team.  Plays were run.

Defensively, we need some tweaking.. But guess what, we were the 2nd best defensive team in the league last year.  WAKE UP.

You say that we need a shot blocker.  Did you check?  For these playoffs, we led the league in Blocked Shots at 7.6 bpg.   Paul Millsap is 9th in the league in Blocks per game on the season.   That's more bpgs than Bizmack Biyombo, Karl Anthony Townes  and Dwight Howard.   Sap has more Bp48 than Nerlens Noel. 

Sure, we would love another strong defensive player at the 5, however, you want to trade Sap???  That's the definition of dropping the bird in hand and going for mystery in bush.

How do we get there, we surely don't get there by getting rid of our better players in a KNEE JERK Fashion.

 

 

[Diesel]

1 hour ago, JayBirdHawk said:

 

I challenge you to first come up with a 'realistic' trade proposal that moves more than one of Teague/Millsap/Horford for two  starting wings and layout the entire plan for filling out the rest of the roster after that trade to show how the team in it's entirety will be better.  Start there, then maybe this is worth discussing (for me at least).

You make a statement in a vacuum without any additional parameters.  In a word it's just arbitrary.    

Haha!!

[HawkItus]

11 hours ago, Lurker said:

That believes this team is close enough to challenging LeBron and doesn't need to accept being good but not great, I challenge you to do this:

How do you acquire two starting wing players for the team without giving up more than one of Teague/Millsap/Horford, especially when one of the wings needs to be a player that at least go shot for shot in the playoffs with an elite team when their team is in trouble? They don't have to average 20+ PPG in the regular season, but they have to be a guy in the playoffs that can drop 25-35 without the help of plays run for them.

And how do you acquire a shot blocking and rebounding presence in the middle?

There are 3 needs:

1. Legit 3D wing

2. 20+ PPG scorer

3. A shotblocking and rebounding presence

Here. Acquire all this for me without draining your assets. I'm all ears...

Let's see

 

1. How did we get JYD?
2. How did we get SAP?
3. See Jeff Teague/Noel thread

 

[Lurker]

50 minutes ago, HawkItus said:

How did we get SAP?

Sap can't become a consistent 20 PPG scorer in the playoffs, you're dripping with delusion if you think he can.

Oh cool, I get to do one of those multiple quotes things next post!

[Lurker]

2 hours ago, Diesel said:

Secondly, again you have diminished Budball.

Budball will be equivalent of being LeBron James' B***H for the next four years if a move to rebuild isn't made. Are you OK with that? You sound like it. If Cleveland is faced in the playoffs again, the losing streak to LeBron James is going to reach 20+ games by 2018, I GUARANTEE IT!

2 hours ago, Diesel said:

Last night was perfect.  THE OTHERS whipped Cleveland's arse.   Not Steph... Not K.  But the others.   And it wasn't a hero ball situation.  It was them working as a team.  Plays were run.

This absolutely CAN NOT BE REPLICATED by the Hawks at all! THE OTHERS fed off of extra attention on Steph and Klay and got their buckets that way (Klay was in with bench lineups). Cleveland isn't scared of the Hawks "THE OTHERS". All they do with any lineup is pack up the paint, put a body on Korver, and let everyone else shoot jumpers and oh, no one on the team hits jumpers at a rate to make them scared of this method. It was rumored that the Cavs saw the Hawks as fodder for them LAST YEAR and never talked about them during the ECF!

 I mean the bench as it is was badly overrated anyway! They can't replicate what the Warriors did, even with a very unselfish PG. An equivalent lineup from the Hawks would be:

Schröder/Hardaway Jr/Sefolosha/Scott/Horford

And that lineup, while great in the regular season, absolutely FELL ON ITS FACE in the playoffs and it wasn't because Schröder was looking to ISO like you love to push he does. The bench players were getting their shots! Most of them bricked badly outside of a few games.

2 hours ago, Diesel said:

But guess what, we were the 2nd best defensive team in the league last year.

That defense is compromised badly against the Cavs due to a 6'5" SF and no traditional big man in the middle.

2 hours ago, Diesel said:

How do we get there, we surely don't get there by getting rid of our better players in a KNEE JERK Fashion.

You're going to see eventually. You'll see. The 2015 Atlanta Hawks, just like the 2013 Atlanta Braves, was a mysterious unicorn that is NEVER going to happen AGAIN. If the team is kept similar, they have NO chance at EVER winning a championship. You sound fine with it, the Hawks sound like they're fine with being LeBron's annual whupping boy over one week in early May a year too.

Edited June 3, 2016 by Lurker

[Diesel]

Well, I was waiting on Knee Jerker to answer Jaybird's challenge...  It's not happening.

Here's the thing Knee Jerker.

Point out the exact moves that you would make that would NOT MAKE US LEBRONS BITCH NEXT SEASON... then we can talk.

 

[Lurker]

17 minutes ago, Diesel said:

Point out the exact moves that you would make that would NOT MAKE US LEBRONS BITCH NEXT SEASON... then we can talk.

1. Sign Kevin Durant or DeMar DeRozan.

2. End the idea of a two stretch big lineup.

3. Change the offensive system, don't rely as much on three point shooting.

It's pretty much MANDATORY that they sign an offensive star or they have a 0% chance against LeBron, forget it, there's no reason to even play the series ever again, it's going to be constant EMBARASSMENT over and over again. Team basketball is fine and all but the team basketball team that is going to beat LeBron actually HAS stars in which the extra focus on them helps "THE OTHERS" (Have you ever seen Millsap doubled? How about Horford, or Teague? Nope, because teams are not afraid of them beating them).

Edited June 3, 2016 by Lurker

[Lurker]

In fact, I'm going to go ahead and predict how next season goes exactly:

The Atlanta Hawks finish between 45-55 wins.

Win the first round in 6. Swept by LeBron again in the second round.

Rinse and repeat of this season...

Edited June 3, 2016 by Lurker

[Diesel]

5 minutes ago, Lurker said:

1. Sign Kevin Durant or DeMar DeRozan.

2. End the idea of a two stretch big lineup.

3. Change the offensive system, don't rely as much on three point shooting.

It's pretty much MANDATORY that they sign an offensive star or they have a 0% chance against LeBron, forget it, there's no reason to even play the series ever again, it's going to be constant EMBARASSMENT over and over again. Team basketball is fine and all but the team basketball team that is going to beat LeBron actually HAS stars in which the extra focus on them helps "THE OTHERS" (Have you ever seen Millsap doubled? How about Horford, or Teague? Nope, because teams are not afraid of them beating them).

• So you think we just show up with money and these guys are going to leave their championship level teams to play with us?   OK...
• 2.  OK... How do we do that.
• 3.   So now you want to fire Bud too??  You know that Bud's brainchild is Budball??  so when you fire Bud, who you bringing in??  Let me guess.... Skiles?  Van Gundy?  I mean, you're on a roll so far..

Let's understand this...  Lebron 4-0d Detroit who had Harris, Jackson, Drummond, and Pope. guys who exhibited what you talk about.   Lebron Beat Toronto Soundly... and they had the guy you want (Derozan) and Lowry and a defense worth talking about.   Do you think Dennis is better than Lowry?

Knee Jerker... You have these fantasies... about getting players as if this were 2K16.  This is not 2k16.  You cannot just trade for who you want.  Nor can you just expect that everybody you have will play the way you want them to play.  Knee Jerker... it's silly to consider your ramblings about blowing up the team because you don't have anything close to a plan that could work with what we have.  You just have Fantasies.

 

[Guest]

13 minutes ago, Lurker said:

1. Sign Kevin Durant or DeMar DeRozan.

2. End the idea of a two stretch big lineup.

3. Change the offensive system, don't rely as much on three point shooting.

It's pretty much MANDATORY that they sign an offensive star or they have a 0% chance against LeBron, forget it, there's no reason to even play the series ever again, it's going to be constant EMBARASSMENT over and over again. Team basketball is fine and all but the team basketball team that is going to beat LeBron actually HAS stars in which the extra focus on them helps "THE OTHERS" (Have you ever seen Millsap doubled? How about Horford, or Teague? Nope, because teams are not afraid of them beating them).

I said REALISTIC - you know, as in NOT  MADE UP.  

A blind pig can say sign Durant and Derozan even though he can't talk.

 

[Lurker]

9 minutes ago, Diesel said:

Knee Jerker... You have these fantasies... about getting players as if this were 2K16.  This is not 2k16.  You cannot just trade for who you want.  Nor can you just expect that everybody you have will play the way you want them to play.  Knee Jerker... it's silly to consider your ramblings about blowing up the team because you don't have anything close to a plan that could work with what we have.  You just have Fantasies.

Let me ask this, do you seriously think a team similar to this can hang with LeBron:

PG: Dennis Schröder

SG: Kent Bazemore

SF: Wesley Johnson

PF: Al Horford

C: Nerlens Noel

The answer is not only no, it's heck no. It's going to take getting lucky, otherwise this team's losing streak to LeBron is reaching 20 in the playoffs and regular season, guaranteed, bookmark this.

Edited June 3, 2016 by Lurker

[Lurker]

Bump.

I never got the answer from anyone. Tell me it. Do you really believe a retool similar to that leads to championship glory?

[Guest]

Bump - nobody cares.

[Guest]

 

Uh, mean ...

(hehe)