One thing a lot of people are forgetting.

[Buzzard]

9 hours ago, Diesel said:

When I said you don't make yourself weaker at a position of strength unless you KNOW...

 

What that means is that unless you are sure about the guy you are getting... So throw this BPA crap out the door.   Prince was our pick on the Big board and we said Prince or Bust... otherwise, the move makes very little sense. 

 

I think you are wrong about the BPA crap. This draft has been picked over with a fine tooth comb since last season. No doubt in my mind we knew there were at least 3 or 4 players at 12 we could get that were worth taking.

What I read is we were willing to trade down after Sabonis was taken but only a few spots for a vet player in return; but no where near the 20s as you suggest. No vet player, no trade, we took our guy. 

I think our hardest decision was choosing between Prince, Valentine, and Beasley. We really had some good choices left at 12 and took the 3 and D player we coveted.

Edited June 26, 2016 by Buzzard

[NBASupes]

10 hours ago, Diesel said:

Teague was what every Hawks player becomes after while... Hated by fans. 

Look at the track record.

Nique then Willis then Mookie then Terry then Deke then Shareef then Harrington then  Childress then Bibby then Joe then Marvin then Smoove then Teague....

Al is next up on the clock. 

 

While a lot of what you are saying in this thread isn't true, this is the best statement in the entire thread. I don't know one former Hawk who stay for along time who didn't become hated other than Nique. Look at Al, the most successful and best Hawk I've seen overall. Maybe nowhere close to Nique, Joe or Smitty in scoring but he does so much that goes unnoticed which wins games but what do you guys want, let's get rid of him. The Max? Weeps... He's not LeBron! This a bottom level understanding the game of Basketball fanbase. Horford should be extremely appreciated on this site. 

[Buzzard]

2 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

While a lot of what you are saying in this thread isn't true, this is the best statement in the entire thread. I don't know one former Hawk who stay for along time who didn't become hated other than Nique. Look at Al, the most successful and best Hawk I've seen overall. Maybe nowhere close to Nique, Joe or Smitty in scoring but he does so much that goes unnoticed which wins games but what do you guys want, let's get rid of him. The Max? Weeps... He's not LeBron! This a bottom level understanding the game of Basketball fanbase. Horford should be extremely appreciated on this site. 

I do think we have a few highly opinionated haters on this board but not many. I do not hate Teague by any stretch. I just thought him or Schröder needed to be traded to give our team a chance to grow.

I don't think its hate for most of us. We see a weakness and want to improve. I wish Josh would have either learned how to shoot or just stopped and became the point forward/defensive monster we all imagined he had the upside for. I really do! But at the end of the day, we should have traded him when he had value.

Almost everyone here preaches not being stagnant. Once the core has peaked, you need to shake something up. Management is hardly ever going to make a trade or move that everyone is going to approve of. That is not realistic. Some wanted to move Teague, some wanted to move Schröder, some wanted to move Josh, some wanted to keep Josh. It is what it is.

Until we win a championship, no one is going to be 100% pleased and I am not blaming any fan for being like that. But the personal attacks, they have no place here. I agree with that 100% as well!

[EazyRoc]

21 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

While a lot of what you are saying in this thread isn't true, this is the best statement in the entire thread. I don't know one former Hawk who stay for along time who didn't become hated other than Nique. Look at Al, the most successful and best Hawk I've seen overall. Maybe nowhere close to Nique, Joe or Smitty in scoring but he does so much that goes unnoticed which wins games but what do you guys want, let's get rid of him. The Max? Weeps... He's not LeBron! This a bottom level understanding the game of Basketball fanbase. Horford should be extremely appreciated on this site. 

Horford has done a lot for this team and easily one of my favorite Hawks (except for Milsap) in the past 8 years or so. However, He didn't play great last year and I can't remember him playing consistently well in any playoff series since 2007. He's on the tail end of his career and won't help us get out the East as we are currently constructed. I don't think he will have a ton of trade value on a max contract either. I'd say save the cap room and keep trying to pitch to FAs to come to Atlanta. Will it work ? Maybe not. However, Horford hasn't and will not get us over the top.

[NBASupes]

1 hour ago, EazyRoc said:

Horford has done a lot for this team and easily one of my favorite Hawks (except for Milsap) in the past 8 years or so. However, He didn't play great last year and I can't remember him playing consistently well in any playoff series since 2007. He's on the tail end of his career and won't help us get out the East as we are currently constructed. I don't think he will have a ton of trade value on a max contract either. I'd say save the cap room and keep trying to pitch to FAs to come to Atlanta. Will it work ? Maybe not. However, Horford hasn't and will not get us over the top.

I think he will. We had Carroll who's just average with three major skills and we won 60 games and got to the ECF with a weak bench. I think we can win a title with Sap/Al core. We just need to get better outside of them. We need our Carroll back. We need bench depth and we need to continue the process. Leonard was the #15 overall pick. Duncan ain't even great or good anymore. We got a good squad. Get a SF, we can have a great one. I think we are close. We just lacked a SF and Bazemore was new to the starting five. He will be better next year and Korver has a full off-season. Get a SF and we can be great again. 

[Thomas]

The return may or may not pan out the way we are hoping Prince will but one of our two PGs was going to be gone in one year. If we paid Teague a boat load at that time he would have to start no matter what. After the games against the Cavs I believe Bud had his answer as to who he was going to keep long term. Thabo was our only physically capable true SF. Hopefully the trade remedied that. Enjoyed a lot of Teague's play while he was a Hawk.  

[Hawkmoor]

When Teague is on  his game,  you know good and well he is better than Dennis.  There is a reason Teague was a allstar recently.

[Guest]

14 hours ago, Diesel said:

Al is next up on the clock. 

With you leading the charge. Funny how that works.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Hawkmoor said:

When Teague is on  his game,  you know good and well he is better than Dennis.  There is a reason Teague was a allstar recently.

Unfortunately the 'whens' weren't consistent enough.

[Hawkmoor]

17 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Unfortunately the 'whens' weren't consistent enough.

I dont agree.  Thats why Indiana is jumping for joy.  Bud likes his guards to penetrate.  He is playing that inside out game where his bigs are guards and his guards are bigs.  Thats why he loves Baze and Dennis.  I have no problem trading Teague though.   

Edited June 26, 2016 by Hawkmoor

[AHF]

The analytics say our team was better with Dennis on the floor than Teague.  Bud chose D.  He is an improving 22 year old.  Handwringing won't change anything a this point.  If you trust Bud's judgment, you get on board with Dennis.

[Thomas]

2 hours ago, Hawkmoor said:

When Teague is on  his game,  you know good and well he is better than Dennis.  There is a reason Teague was a allstar recently.

Yeah but I'm pretty sure there was more than one reason why he was traded whether he made All Star or not. For examples overall defense with Dennis on the floor is really good and he doesn't take plays off and then there is the something will happen in a year whether we are ready or not so we made sure we at least got our 3 and D player. 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Hawkmoor said:

I dont agree.  

Ok, so Teague was consistent?

[Lurker]

16 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Ok, so Teague was consistent?

So suddenly a guy that is just as likely to put up a 20-25 PTS game with 6-8 AST and just 2 TO but then turn around and put up a 10-12 PTS game with 5 AST and 3-4 TO is "consistent". Sure, because that's Jeff Teague even when he's healthy.

It's not that I don't like him. I think he may have been the most talented player on the team. But he was not the best player, he was the third best because he was never consistent.

[Thomas]

6 minutes ago, Lurker said:

So suddenly a guy that is just as likely to put up a 20-25 PTS game with 6-8 AST and just 2 TO but then turn around and put up a 10-12 PTS game with 5 AST and 3-4 TO is "consistent". Sure, because that's Jeff Teague even when he's healthy.

It's not that I don't like him. I think he may have been the most talented player on the team. But he was not the best player, he was the third best because he was never consistent.

The series against the Cavs really drove that point home and on a big stage as well.

[Diesel]

11 hours ago, Buzzard said:

I do think we have a few highly opinionated haters on this board but not many. I do not hate Teague by any stretch. I just thought him or Schröder needed to be traded to give our team a chance to grow.

I don't think its hate for most of us. We see a weakness and want to improve. I wish Josh would have either learned how to shoot or just stopped and became the point forward/defensive monster we all imagined he had the upside for. I really do! But at the end of the day, we should have traded him when he had value.

Almost everyone here preaches not being stagnant. Once the core has peaked, you need to shake something up. Management is hardly ever going to make a trade or move that everyone is going to approve of. That is not realistic. Some wanted to move Teague, some wanted to move Schröder, some wanted to move Josh, some wanted to keep Josh. It is what it is.

Until we win a championship, no one is going to be 100% pleased and I am not blaming any fan for being like that. But the personal attacks, they have no place here. I agree with that 100% as well!

I have to disagree.  From the moment that we drafted Dennis, Teague has been on the clock.  People wanted Teague gone for a rookie who was inconsistent and selfish.  He's not that much better now.  Unfortunately, Teague had an Allstar Year last season and for a second hushed the critics... but they stayed on their job.   16/7 and .400 from 3 is not  "Weakness" by any stretch... 

 

 

[Diesel]

7 hours ago, AHF said:

The analytics say our team was better with Dennis on the floor than Teague.  Bud chose D.  He is an improving 22 year old.  Handwringing won't change anything a this point.  If you trust Bud's judgment, you get on board with Dennis.

Exactly which of these analytics suggest that?

<PRE>                                                                                                                                             
Rk            Player  Season Age  G   MP  PER  TS% 3PAr  FTr ORB% DRB% TRB% AST% STL% BLK% TOV% USG%   OWS DWS  WS WS/48  OBPM DBPM  BPM VORP
1    Dennis Schroder 2015-16  22 80 1621 15.5 .510 .306 .233  1.7 11.8  6.9 36.1  2.1  0.4 17.5 28.8  -0.2 2.3 2.2  .064  -0.5 -0.9 -1.4  0.3
2        Jeff Teague 2015-16  27 79 2255 17.9 .551 .278 .316  1.6  8.6  5.2 34.4  2.1  0.8 16.2 26.6   2.8 3.0 5.9  .125   1.2 -0.9  0.3  1.3
</PRE>

 

[Lurker]

2 hours ago, Diesel said:

Exactly which of these analytics suggest that?

<PRE>                                                                                                                                             
Rk            Player  Season Age  G   MP  PER  TS% 3PAr  FTr ORB% DRB% TRB% AST% STL% BLK% TOV% USG%   OWS DWS  WS WS/48  OBPM DBPM  BPM VORP
1    Dennis Schroder 2015-16  22 80 1621 15.5 .510 .306 .233  1.7 11.8  6.9 36.1  2.1  0.4 17.5 28.8  -0.2 2.3 2.2  .064  -0.5 -0.9 -1.4  0.3
2        Jeff Teague 2015-16  27 79 2255 17.9 .551 .278 .316  1.6  8.6  5.2 34.4  2.1  0.8 16.2 26.6   2.8 3.0 5.9  .125   1.2 -0.9  0.3  1.3
</PRE>

 

stats.nba.com.

2 hours ago, Diesel said:

.400 from 3

STOP touting Teague as a legitimate 40% three point shooter! If he was, then explain why teams went under all of his screens in the playoffs!

[Diesel]

7 hours ago, Lurker said:

stats.nba.com.

STOP touting Teague as a legitimate 40% three point shooter! If he was, then explain why teams went under all of his screens in the playoffs!

SO...  Teague shoots 40% from three last season and we say he's not a 40% three point shooter???

Does that work universally??  

Can we say that Lebron is not a 25 ppg player.

Can we say that Steph Curry is not a  45% 3 pt shooter last season?

BTW.. your reasoning for why he wasn't a "legitimate" 40% three point shooter is that  he played defense a certain way?

I mean... Teague hit 110 three pointers for the season and you want to disqualify because of how he played defense in one round of the playoffs?

Wow...   The logic here is amazing.   I guess when you got nothing else.. just go for an emotion based argument.   That type of Appeal to feel is Trump Like. 

 

 

 

[Atlalien]

Schröder is a star in the making. He penetrates at will and that alone will increase productivity due to him living at the rim. His uptempo style will is much better for Bud's system. He is far better defensively. We need more players around him with a similar style,able to run the floor spread out and shoot. And play defense. Al would be OK to return if the return to playing center and not Sf. Sac town now have to many centers bring in Willie cauley for his defense and ability to run the floor and bring back Baze at the 2. Defense create offense watch us get better and compete.