THE TRADE DEADLINE - February 23rd at 3:00PM

[macdaddy]

13 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Ferry initially offered Sap a 4 year deal, he took 2. 

2nd time around,  he took a shorter term deal to cash in - smart move by him and his agent.

Nothing to fault the Hawks on.

And I think his agent is his Uncle right?   I love Sap.   He bet on himself and won twice.   

Just checked.  His uncle has one client.   Not sure why it says maxed out but it's pretty awesome.  I'd rank him top 10 in agents

DeAngelo Simmons

BDS Sports

 

NBA Players: 1

All-Star Players: 1

Maxed-out Players: 1

Agent Ranking: 52

[ISOJOE]

I think we should try to trade THj+Millsap for a late lottery pick. Hartenstein is not going to be drafted top10 (he is top7 if we talk about upside imo) and I also like Rabb. 

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, ISOJOE said:

I think we should try to trade THj+Millsap for a late lottery pick. Hartenstein is not going to be drafted top10 (he is top7 if we talk about upside imo) and I also like Rabb. 

What the h*ll?  A bit of a value mismatch IMHO.

Millsap alone could get that or maybe more even considering he's an expiring.

Also, you got to consider the focus of the team.  For better or worse, they're not rebuilding.  Like it or not, they're looking to keep winning/pursuing the ECF now - not 3-4 years from now.  Nothing in the late lotto fits with that timeframe.

I love what I saw from Hartenstein, btw, but I'm not trading Millsap for him.  He could easily be Jan Vesely or Steven Hunter (who? exactly).  And I'm gonna give you the benefit of the doubt and say your German-ness isn't the reason you brought Hartenstein's name up, btw. 

[BrazilianHawk]

  I think I was told I wouldn't be traded.

 

Fools. Trying to deal our best player for a pick.

[Alex]

There isn't a single player on the roster who must be kept.  If the right offer comes along you gotta take it.  That being said there isn't anything realistic the team could do to improve this season.  I expect it to a quiet deadline for the Hawks and NBA as a whole.

[ISOJOE]

Millsap is on an expiring contract and the team who wants to trade for him could be obliged to overpay him in the summer. (Why trade for him now if you make the same offer in the FA anyway?) So his trade value isn't that high. Hardaway is a streaky shooter with solid defense, nothing special but a good player off the bench. Maybe Millsap+THjr for DEN Firstrounder + Chandler would be fair. And Hartenstein is different imo. Just look at his rebounding numbers (recently grabbed 14reb in 22min in a men's league). The Hawks proved to be a team that is good at player development and I would bet that Hartenstein will not end up as a bust if the right team drafts him. A GM of a Western Conference Team said a few months ago that he would pick him top5. He simply doesn't get enough playing time at Kaunas.

[Guest]

46 minutes ago, ISOJOE said:

Millsap is on an expiring contract and the team who wants to trade for him could be obliged to overpay him in the summer. (Why trade for him now if you make the same offer in the FA anyway?) So his trade value isn't that high. Hardaway is a streaky shooter with solid defense, nothing special but a good player off the bench. Maybe Millsap+THjr for DEN Firstrounder + Chandler would be fair. And Hartenstein is different imo. Just look at his rebounding numbers (recently grabbed 14reb in 22min in a men's league). The Hawks proved to be a team that is good at player development and I would bet that Hartenstein will not end up as a bust if the right team drafts him. A GM of a Western Conference Team said a few months ago that he would pick him top5. He simply doesn't get enough playing time at Kaunas.

Why trade for him?  Example: a team like Toronto does not have the cap space to sign him as a FA.  If he is traded there they own his full bird right and can resign him for whatever they want.

[ISOJOE]

Yeah, I didn't think about TOR because I don't like any of their packages.

[sturt]

23 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

"TRADE ASSETS" (very liberal use of this term here):

1. Tiago 'Speedy' Splitter's expiring contract

Nicely played.

21 hours ago, macdaddy said:

10. Dunleavy - he can't be traded until after March 7th (after the deadline). His contract is a team option for next season.

Maybe someone in the thread already pointed this out... only skimmed it, sorry... but fwiw, as I understand it, actually Dunleavy can be traded, but he cannot be packaged with other players in a deal. It has to be straight-up Dunleavy for some asset(s). Confirmation of that might be found in the fact we dealt Mo Williams a few days after the trade from CLE for our dear old friend Cenk.

 

[Guest]

14 minutes ago, ISOJOE said:

Yeah, I didn't think about TOR because I don't like any of their packages.

I don't like Toronto's package either.

I posted a list of teams with cap space that can outright sign him (too lazy to look for it now).  If he's about just money - he can easily go to a bad team that has cap space but why would he at 32 years.  There may be about 3 'good' teams with space.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Melo's conscious:  

I hate Phil Jackson . . and I want to blow up on him.  People keep holding me back.  But if keeps taking that slick (( bleep )), I'm going to do it.   And all hell will break loose.  He's not going to blame ME for this (( bleeped )) up roster that he constructed or this TRIANGLE that doesn't work in a league full of slashing guards and spot up shooters.

The backstory

What led to Phil's comment . . . is this article by Ding . . . blasting Melo's desire to win or change his ways.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2691601-phil-jackson-knicks-stymied-by-wanting-carmelo-to-be-something-he-is-not

 

The situation in New York is about to hit a critical point.  Either Melo will ask for a trade, or Phil Jackson will force himself to get fired.

 

The Hawks only have one shot at this.   Take your shot NOW Wes and Bud.  This team is too inconsistent offensively to contend for anything, as currently constructed.   If it doesn't work, we can put ourselves in position to completely reset in 2 years . . . which would be a disaster financially to the franchise, but an option we can do.   Toss those draft picks at New York + Baze + Splitter . . . and see if they'll bite.   Continue to do it, when no one else is offering anything close to this.

 

Do nothing, and we accept our 2nd round rate as fodder for the Cavs . . or some other team playing better than us.

 

[Guest]

Well 'Cyde, I also wanted sMelo here, however, the incidents from the past few days give me pause.

He and James are clearly colluding behind the scenes to get him to CLE.  That said, if he's dead set on being a Cav, that torpedoes things for me.

Even if he ultimately opens his list to include us, it's doubtful we'd be getting the 45 (or w/e) points in 38 minutes guy.  We'd be getting the sulking sMelo we've seen the past few games, IMHO.

I think he'll end up in LAC.  I think we need to explore more creative options.  Probably won't be able to upgrade the top 3 guys (talent-wise), but if we can upgrade the 4-8 guys that could be good enough (for now).

It's why I want us to go after Ibaka (ORL), Tucker/Knight (PHX), etc.

[gurpilo]

I think the best deal could be in Denver, Murray, Chandler, Nurkic package for Sap, Splitter and Thabo

[TheNorthCydeRises]

1 hour ago, kg01 said:

Well 'Cyde, I also wanted sMelo here, however, the incidents from the past few days give me pause.

He and James are clearly colluding behind the scenes to get him to CLE.  That said, if he's dead set on being a Cav, that torpedoes things for me.

Even if he ultimately opens his list to include us, it's doubtful we'd be getting the 45 (or w/e) points in 38 minutes guy.  We'd be getting the sulking sMelo we've seen the past few games, IMHO.

I think he'll end up in LAC.  I think we need to explore more creative options.  Probably won't be able to upgrade the top 3 guys (talent-wise), but if we can upgrade the 4-8 guys that could be good enough (for now).

It's why I want us to go after Ibaka (ORL), Tucker/Knight (PHX), etc.

Disagree completely.

 

1) the fan base in Atlanta would IMMEDIATELY welcome him on.  1/2 of them cheer for him whenever he comes here anyway. 

2) a trade almost always reinvigorates a player, even if he loved where he played at.

3) Bud has proven with Dwight Howard, that he can turn a guy who everybody think is worthless, into a viable and integral part of the team

4) Melo has no problem playing "team ball",  He looks to take over when his teammates are missing shots.

5) As a spot up shooter, he is tailor made for this offense.

 

At some point, this fan base has to understand what normally are the elements of a championship team, and take their personal emotions out of the equation.

 

1) A Hall of Fame level player playing at or near the peak of his career . . . ( none )

2)  A definitive All-Star level player . . . ( Millsap )

3) A 3rd player who is a borderline All-Star, capable of making a major impact on a game . . . ( Howard, Schroder )

4) A top 10 defensive team . . . ( currently 5th in the NBA )

5) A top 10 offensive team . . . ( currently 25th in the NBA . . . and lowest amongst ALL current playoff teams )

 

Without those elements, you're not winning a title in most instances.   We have 3 out of the 5.   

Acquiring Melo gives us a chance to get #1, and dramatically improve #5.

 

Any other move that brings in a middle of the road player, doesn't help us at all.

It's that simple.

Edited February 8, 2017 by TheNorthCydeRises

[TheNorthCydeRises]

45 minutes ago, gurpilo said:

I think the best deal could be in Denver, Murray, Chandler, Nurkic package for Sap, Splitter and Thabo

That doesn't help the Hawks for the present or the future.  So why do a deal like that?

[macdaddy]

17 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

Disagree completely.

 

1) the fan base in Atlanta would IMMEDIATELY welcome him on.  1/2 of them cheer for him whenever he comes here anyway. 

2) a trade almost always reinvigorates a player, even if he loved where he played at.

3) Bud has proven with Dwight Howard, that he can turn a guy who everybody think is worthless, into a viable and integral part of the team

4) Melo has no problem playing "team ball",  He looks to take over when his teammates are missing shots.

5) As a spot up shooter, he is tailor made for this offense.

 

At some point, this fan base has to understand what normally are the elements of a championship team, and take their personal emotions out of the equation.

 

1) A Hall of Fame level player playing at or near the peak of his career . . . ( none )

2)  A definitive All-Star level player . . . ( Millsap )

3) A 3rd player who is a borderline All-Star, capable of making a major impact on a game . . . ( Howard, Schroder )

4) A top 10 defensive team . . . ( currently 5th in the NBA )

5) A top 10 offensive team . . . ( currently 25th in the NBA . . . and lowest amongst ALL current playoff teams )

 

Without those elements, you're not winning a title in most instances.   We have 3 out of the 5.   

Acquiring Melo gives us a chance to get #1, and dramatically improve #5.

 

Any other move that brings in a middle of the road player, doesn't help us at all.

It's that simple.

Until this year I would have completely disagreed.   I never wanted any part of Melo and while i'm still not a fan I recognize that there are a thousand reasons why we'd be better off with him.   

His rep as a ball hog isn't that warranted at this point i don't think.   On a team that moves the ball I think he'd actually be much happier.  

But there is no denying that a team featuring Melo, Sap, Howard going into the playoffs is going to generate buzz.   It could be an on court failure but it would make money.   

 

 

[gurpilo]

hace 24 minutos, TheNorthCydeRises dijo:

That doesn't help the Hawks for the present or the future.  So why do a deal like that?

Well Murray can definately be a cornerstone piece or the future, Nurkic could develop in a starter C, very good potential there. Chandler is definately what we need at SF position. For me this helps more in the future but also a but in the oresent

[Guest]

37 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

Disagree completely.

Blah, blah, blah ...

It's that simple.

Well, you've also admitted to being a SorryexCuse fan so you're kinda biased so .. it's that simple. 

Seriously though, I hear you.  I'm just finding my interest in sMelo waning.  Plus, let's not pretend like he doesn't need to be more of the 2nd/3rd guy on a team wanting to win big.  Not the #1 guy so it's not a slam dunk that adding sMelo = rangs for everybody.

[Sothron]

1 hour ago, gurpilo said:

I think the best deal could be in Denver, Murray, Chandler, Nurkic package for Sap, Splitter and Thabo

They aren't trading Murray. Their future is Jokic and Murray and Garry Harris/Barton as the wings they want to play the most. Chandler and Nurkic are on the market though.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

4 minutes ago, kg01 said:

Well, you've also admitted to being a SorryexCuse fan so you're kinda biased so .. it's that simple. 

Seriously though, I hear you.  I'm just finding my interest in sMelo waning.  Plus, let's not pretend like he doesn't need to be more of the 2nd/3rd guy on a team wanting to win big.  Not the #1 guy so it's not a slam dunk that adding sMelo = rangs for everybody.

The alternative is worse.  You know it, and I know it.  And Melo WILL be the #1 offensive guy.  At the end of a game, that's who hands I want the ball in.

The difference is that he doesn't have to be a 20 shot taking #1 guy.  In this offense, if he can take 15 - 17 shots, and shoot a decent percentage, that would help us tremendously.