KORV3R

[Dakin]

Hit a big shot tonight that didn't matter but he'll probably shoot some that matter as a CAV.  Do you think Bud and co. Made a post-retirement deal with him to join the coaching staff or front office or marketing department or anything?? I have bad dreams about him being the face of someone else's franchise.

Still don't get the trade. We aren't the  same team without him. 

Edited March 2, 2017 by Dakin

[Thomas]

10 hours ago, Dakin said:

the face of someone else's franchise

Confusing comment there.

[macdaddy]

I understand what you're saying.   He has the chance to be what Steve Kerr is to the Bulls.   I'm happy for him but the further we get from the trade the more it doesn't make sense.   I think it's another sign that mgt is having some big discussions/disagreements on direction.   But it was at a minimum a hasty trade.   I'm sure we could have gotten more had we waited, but the reality is that Korver is still a top 3 shooter in the league and the fact that we thought we couldn't use him or didn't need him is puzzling.   The only rational explanation is that Bud actually believed that Dunleavey is the better player.   

[hazer]

I've been beating the "3zus will be Bud's assistant coach" drum for over a year. I would love to see that happen.

[AHF]

54 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

I understand what you're saying.   He has the chance to be what Steve Kerr is to the Bulls.   I'm happy for him but the further we get from the trade the more it doesn't make sense.   I think it's another sign that mgt is having some big discussions/disagreements on direction.   But it was at a minimum a hasty trade.   I'm sure we could have gotten more had we waited, but the reality is that Korver is still a top 3 shooter in the league and the fact that we thought we couldn't use him or didn't need him is puzzling.   The only rational explanation is that Bud actually believed that Dunleavey is the better player.   

There is nothing rationale about Bud thinking Dunleavy is better than Korver.

I'm not going to restate my original thoughts, but I will echo you that we shopped Korver very early in the trade market when there was only 1 team in the league from whom we would have maximum negotiating power Cleveland due to the recent JR Smith injury.  For the rest of the league, we would have gotten better offers from them closer to the deadline.

I do agree with you about mgt having discussion on direction and that this trade was a product of that.  Likely the coaching staff felt like they had done whatever they could and could no longer get him open like they used to and were ok giving more minutes to THJr.  My $.02 read on this is that management decided to get future assets for him with the goal of following that up by trading Millsap and possibly others.   So they made a trade for the future.  They started having discussions about Sap, the offers weren't what they had hoped  and Coach Bud exerted his influence to get that shut down with a firm public face on winning this season from that point forward.  The Korver trade happened during the transition from a public face of looking at "focus on the future" to "the future is now."  Probably some divided minds among our management team.

[Guest]

49 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

I understand what you're saying.   He has the chance to be what Steve Kerr is to the Bulls.   I'm happy for him but the further we get from the trade the more it doesn't make sense.   I think it's another sign that mgt is having some big discussions/disagreements on direction.   But it was at a minimum a hasty trade.   I'm sure we could have gotten more had we waited, but the reality is that Korver is still a top 3 shooter in the league and the fact that we thought we couldn't use him or didn't need him is puzzling.   The only rational explanation is that Bud actually believed that Dunleavey is the better player.   

Looking back it seems there was a move/thoughts towards rebooting by trading both Korver and Millsap.  The offense couldn't get Kyle open so he wasn't effective anymore, the offense needed more ball handlers. A main part of this is I think offers Millsap just weren't to their liking for Millsap, then once we started playing better and winning Bud prolly pushed back.

Putting aside the reasons for trading KK for a minute....do you really think we could have gotten more for him - a 35 year old soon to be free agent specialist? Especially after seeing what guys like Boogie and Noel went for? Teams interested in Korver were limited, only high end playoff teams would value him. 

[macdaddy]

Just now, JayBirdHawk said:

Looking back it seems there was a move/thoughts towards rebooting by trading both Korver and Millsap.  The offense couldn't get Kyle open so he wasn't effective anymore, the offense needed more ball handlers. A main part of this is I think offers Millsap just weren't to their liking for Millsap, then once we started playing better and winning Bud prolly pushed back.

Putting aside the reasons for trading KK for a minute....do you really think we could have gotten more for him - a 35 year old soon to be free agent specialist? Especially after seeing what guys like Boogie and Noel went for? Teams interested in Korver were limited, only high end playoff teams would value him. 

Maybe not but we all seem to agree it was the dump him for a draft pick as part of a rebuild for the future.  Which we didn't do.   (i'm going back on my original point but i'm bored).    So at the very least had we waited we probably would have gotten a player in return that was better.   There again once we went all in we would have kept him and his 45% shooting once we added some other vets who can shoot.   I mean he couldn't get open because no one was worried about Baze, Thabo etc.   How would you like our 2nd unit with Calderon, Korver, Ersan.   Suddenly there are open 3s for someone.   

[Guest]

Kyle was no longer helping us win.  Those that have replaced him in the lineup are adding more than he was.  It's that simple.  I do, however, agree that his post-retirement career will probably be here in some capacity.  He'll get a fantastic ovation this coming Friday.  I might get a lil misty myself.

Lastly, not Hawks related #modzplzbannthx

[AHF]

4 minutes ago, kg01 said:

Kyle was no longer helping us win.  Those that have replaced him in the lineup are adding more than he was.  It's that simple.  I do, however, agree that his post-retirement career will probably be here in some capacity.  He'll get a fantastic ovation this coming Friday.  I might get a lil misty myself.

Lastly, not Hawks related #modzplzbannthx

I still think Korver would have been a very positive contributor in a bench role.  In fact, I think he already was doing quite nicely in that role.  What he no longer needed to be was a starter.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, AHF said:

I still think Korver would have been a very positive contributor in a bench role.  In fact, I think he already was doing quite nicely in that role.  What he no longer needed to be was a starter.

Even when he wasn't starting with us, Budz was playing him starter's minutes though.  That's the problem.  It we could've totally marginalized him and made him a situational player/asst coach, that would've been perfect.

There were like 2-3 games where he was excellent coming off the bench but it seemed to run it's course.

[Guest]

Standing O for Kyle tomorrow night!

[AHF]

2 hours ago, kg01 said:

Even when he wasn't starting with us, Budz was playing him starter's minutes though.  That's the problem.  It we could've totally marginalized him and made him a situational player/asst coach, that would've been perfect.

There were like 2-3 games where he was excellent coming off the bench but it seemed to run it's course.

As a reserve, in fewer minutes (and spending more time vs opposing reserves than opposing defensive specialists) he scored 34% more points, grabbed 24% more rebounds and scored at a 66.5% TS% clip for  us.  He did that over 34 games.  

He is now shooting 69.2% TS% for the Cavs.

He adds some real value as a role player this year.

[HopefulHawksFan]

I heard a rumor when I was in Orlando for the game last weekend that Kyle was unhappy coming off the bench for Atlanta.  My argument was that he's coming off the bench there and it was emphasized...FOR ATLANTA.  Not sure what that means and I have a hard time seeing Kyle let something like that bother him, but it was a rumor circulating around the 6th Man Section.

I am pumped for the game tomorrow and plan a full on KK tribute from the 6th Man Section tomorrow night.  Look for me as I'll be sporting the KK fathead from the section!

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, HopefulHawksFan said:

I heard a rumor when I was in Orlando for the game last weekend that Kyle was unhappy coming off the bench for Atlanta.  My argument was that he's coming off the bench there and it was emphasized...FOR ATLANTA.  Not sure what that means and I have a hard time seeing Kyle let something like that bother him, but it was a rumor circulating around the 6th Man Section.

I am pumped for the game tomorrow and plan a full on KK tribute from the 6th Man Section tomorrow night.  Look for me as I'll be sporting the KK fathead from the section!

That'll be cool.  Also, if you happen to run out and tackle James, I'm sure the Squawk can scrape together some bail money.  We even have a lawyer too IIUC.  Jussayin.

[BigDog90]

4 hours ago, macdaddy said:

I understand what you're saying.   He has the chance to be what Steve Kerr is to the Bulls.   I'm happy for him but the further we get from the trade the more it doesn't make sense.   I think it's another sign that mgt is having some big discussions/disagreements on direction.   But it was at a minimum a hasty trade.   I'm sure we could have gotten more had we waited, but the reality is that Korver is still a top 3 shooter in the league and the fact that we thought we couldn't use him or didn't need him is puzzling.   The only rational explanation is that Bud actually believed that Dunleavey is the better player.   

I don't fault ATL trading him. He would have walked for nothing. I just hate they traded him to CLE, a team ATL couldn't beat in the playoffs. Atleast trade him to the West. 

[HopefulHawksFan]

1 hour ago, kg01 said:

That'll be cool.  Also, if you happen to run out and tackle James, I'm sure the Squawk can scrape together some bail money.  We even have a lawyer too IIUC.  Jussayin.

Unfortunately, LBJ has grown on me, along with the rest of the Cleveland team.  I know...I used to despise them, but I started following them after the trade and they're an awesome group.  I have a Snapchat friendship with Channing Frye and I think he's one of the funniest people on earth.  Hawks fan first, closet Cleveland fan second...

[GameTime]

17 minutes ago, HopefulHawksFan said:

Unfortunately, LBJ has grown on me, along with the rest of the Cleveland team.  I know...I used to despise them, but I started following them after the trade and they're an awesome group.  I have a Snapchat friendship with Channing Frye and I think he's one of the funniest people on earth.  Hawks fan first, closet Cleveland fan second...

[Guest]

18 minutes ago, HopefulHawksFan said:

Unfortunately, LBJ has grown on me, along with the rest of the Cleveland team.  I know...I used to despise them, but I started following them after the trade and they're an awesome group.  I have a Snapchat friendship with Channing Frye and I think he's one of the funniest people on earth.  Hawks fan first, closet Cleveland fan second...

 This makes me sad.  I think I got something in my eye. 

I don't even know who you are anymore, Hopeful.  I jus' ... I gotta ...

[benhillboy]

Through the Hawks team dynamic he was just promoting losing too much.  The Cavs can account for his liabilities with a considerable edge in overall perimeter defense and a huge edge in ball handling and drawing doubles so I don't sweat his departure.

But yeah, wish I could be in the house to give Kyle a huge hand.  It kills me when guys don't seem to understand why they get booed by a former home crowd or think it's unfair.  You're an ass dude.  If you show numerous virtuous qualities as a man and professional people of all walks of life are gonna support you, point blank.

It was unbelievable how loud applause was for Kobe in Phillips.  They better up the f&@kin ante for Kyle if you must cheer for the enemy.  In a franchise history devoid of many great moments, the entire crowd standing every time Kyle rose up is one.

And damn, my avatar is missing guys.  I saw it in Around the Association but  not in Homecourt.  Did Koonin have it removed for copyright infringement or sumthin?  Shall I just change it to Joe rubbing his waves?

Edited March 2, 2017 by benhillboy

[Guest]

35 minutes ago, HopefulHawksFan said:

Unfortunately, LBJ has grown on me, along with the rest of the Cleveland team.  I know...I used to despise them, but I started following them after the trade and they're an awesome group.  I have a Snapchat friendship with Channing Frye and I think he's one of the funniest people on earth.  Hawks fan first, closet Cleveland fan second...

Uh oh...u done broke my heart.