As bad as we played, this is what probably lost the game

[Thomas]

19 hours ago, Spud2Nique said:

Gortat has a big ugly nose...

 

(gimme a few posts to warm up...that's all I got now..)

Maybe something with Sap's elbow circa Kobe/Bibby. 

[Thomas]

19 hours ago, Spud2Nique said:

Can Delaney work the speedbags a lil?

Applying the art of the body block on Gortat's knees would give Delaney a defined role at least. Jeff Van Note style. Can't set an illegal screen if your not on the floor.

[thecampster]

21 hours ago, macdaddy said:

I'm not saying punch but if he's going to spread that wide on a screen then the collision can get rough for the screener too. 

Actually you front roll the screen wrapping around the leg and if your knee happens to rise up on the way by, so be it.

[macdaddy]

Not sure how anyone is blaming Bud the coach.   Look at this roster.   Just like all his teams they overachieve.   We have a pretty good PG and PF, aging center, and a bunch of journeyman vets and young hopefuls.   Are we supposed to be going to the finals with this bunch?

go hawks.

[Peoriabird]

Just now, macdaddy said:

Not sure how anyone is blaming Bud the coach.   Look at this roster.   Just like all his teams they overachieve.   We have a pretty good PG and PF, aging center, and a bunch of journeyman vets and young hopefuls.   Are we supposed to be going to the finals with this bunch?

go hawks.

This is such a common theme.  Protect the coach by blaming the players!

[macdaddy]

3 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

This is such a common theme.  Protect the coach by blaming the players!

So you think there is a coach who be getting better results with this group?

[Peoriabird]

Just now, macdaddy said:

So you think there is a coach who be getting better results with this group?

It would be just an opinion but the facts are facts regardless of how you feel about the players, that game was very winnable and Bud made some obvious bad decisions with his personnel.  Something he has done time and time again. 

[macdaddy]

9 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

It would be just an opinion but the facts are facts regardless of how you feel about the players, that game was very winnable and Bud made some obvious bad decisions with his personnel.  Something he has done time and time again. 

That's the criticism of almost every coach in the league.  But what specifically do you think were the bad personnel decisions that cost us the game?   Who should have been playing that wasn't?

[Bankingitbig]

Bud, the coach, is fine. He has overachieved with every team he has had as a head coach in my opinion. Sure, he may make some questionable lineup decisions, but I much rather have that than any alternative out there at head coaching. Bud, the GM, needs some improvement. But I am still not convinced that he had full control over the roster makeup coming into this season and that he was behind the signing of Dwight.

[Peoriabird]

8 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

That's the criticism of almost every coach in the league.  But what specifically do you think were the bad personnel decisions that cost us the game?   Who should have been playing that wasn't?

Millsap playing so many minutes vs Morris...Ilyasova was much better handling Morris than sap, Dennis and Howard together too much...They are incredibly bad at defending the pick and roll together, Not giving the bench more minutes who were all +  with +/-... Muscala was especially more effective defending the pick and roll than the starters.   Not trying Bembry on Wall to see if it would help.  Not adding Hump to the rotation at all like last year when Washington started to impose it will on the boards at times.  Just to name a few issues.

[macdaddy]

Just now, Peoriabird said:

Millsap playing so many minutes vs Morris...Ilyasova was much better handling Morris than sap, Dennis and Howard together too much...They are incredibly bad at defending the pick and roll together, Not giving the bench more minutes who were all +  with +/-... Muscala was especially effective defending the pick and roll than the starters.   Not trying Bembry on Wall to see if it would help.  Not adding Hump to the rotation at all like last year when Washington started to impose it will on the boards at times.  Just to name a few issues.

I agree with some of those issues but the bench was largely playing against the Wiz' horrible bench.   In addition, there aren't many coaches in the league that don't roll with their starters/best players in the playoffs.   So to me it's not a question of are there things Bud is doing that can be questioned.   It's is there a guy out there who would get more out of this group than Bud is doing?  I think that without a doubt the answer is no.   I think the vast majority of coaches would have never gotten these guys to the playoffs.   And I don't think anyone on our bench is going to be that effective shutting down Wall and co.    (full disclaimer: I'm totally on board with putting Bembry on Wall).   

[Bankingitbig]

7 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

Millsap playing so many minutes vs Morris...Ilyasova was much better handling Morris than sap, Dennis and Howard together too much...They are incredibly bad at defending the pick and roll together, Not giving the bench more minutes who were all +  with +/-... Muscala was especially effective defending the pick and roll than the starters.   Not trying Bembry on Wall to see if it would help.  Not adding Hump to the rotation at all like last year when Washington started to impose it will on the boards at times.  Just to name a few issues.

I don't recall Ilyasova on Morris that much and how that fared, but I would not sit my allstar for his backup like you are suggesting. Millsap needs to be on the floor and he only played 34mins which isn't that much for an allstar in a playoff game. I agree about Dennis and Howard and think Bud will switch Howard's minutes up some next game. Bench's +/- is inflated somewhat by playing against Wizard's horrible bench, but I think we will see more of Ilyasova and Muscala next game regardless. Bembry wasn't even active, so that obviously wasn't an option... We outrebounded Washington.. There was only really one a couple of times that I felt WSH really beat us on the boards when they shouldn't have. And I would much rather be playing Millsap, Ilyasova, Muscala, or Howard than freaking Humphries..... You can't just say oh we should be play X and X and X more... That's like me saying we should be playing Dunleavy more to get more three pointers, oh and we should be playing Thabo and Bembry more for more defense. Oh and we should play Humphries more to get more rebounds... C'mon man.... Doesn't work that way. You only can have some many players on the court at a time.

Edited April 18, 2017 by Bankingitbig

[Peoriabird]

3 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

I agree with some of those issues but the bench was largely playing against the Wiz' horrible bench.   In addition, there aren't many coaches in the league that don't roll with their starters/best players in the playoffs.   So to me it's not a question of are there things Bud is doing that can be questioned.   It's is there a guy out there who would get more out of this group than Bud is doing?  I think that without a doubt the answer is no.   I think the vast majority of coaches would have never gotten these guys to the playoffs.   And I don't think anyone on our bench is going to be that effective shutting down Wall and co.    (full disclaimer: I'm totally on board with putting Bembry on Wall).   

That's because you have made up your mind about the players and their skill level and Bud as a coach.  You can't think objectively because you have this belief that our players aren't good and that Bud is great.  And the only possible explanation that these guys beat Boston 3-1, Cleveland 3-1 and swept teams like Houston is because of Bud

[macdaddy]

1 minute ago, Peoriabird said:

That's because you have made up your mind about the players and their skill level and Bud as a coach.  You can't think objectively because you have this belief that our players aren't good and that Bud is great.  And the only possible explanation that these guys beat Boston 3-1, Cleveland 3-1 and swept teams like Houston is because of Bud

I made up my mind about the players by watching them for 82 games.   So you're making the case that the players have largely sucked this year because of the coaching?    Who on this team is better than you think they are generally given credit for?   Sap is a really good PF and an all star but not really on the level of the other #1 options on playoff teams.   No one else on the team even comes close to that level.   Do you disagree?   That being the case then how in the world should we be expected to contend against teams that have superstars and multiple all stars?   

[Peoriabird]

8 minutes ago, Bankingitbig said:

I don't recall Ilyasova on Morris that much and how that fared, but I would not sit my allstar for his backup like you are suggesting. Millsap needs to be on the floor and he only played 34mins which isn't that much for an allstar in a playoff game. I agree about Dennis and Howard and think Bud will switch Howard's minutes up some next game. Bench's +/- is inflated somewhat by playing against Wizard's horrible bench, but I think we will see more of Ilyasova and Muscala next game regardless. Bembry wasn't even active, so that obviously wasn't an option... We outrebounded Washington.. There was only really one a couple of times that I felt WSH really beat us on the boards when they shouldn't have. And I would much rather be playing Millsap, Ilyasova, Muscala, or Howard than freaking Humphries..... You can't just say oh we should be play X and X and X more... That's like me saying we should be playing Dunleavy more to get more three pointers, oh and we should be playing Thabo and Bembry more for more defense. Oh and we should play Humphries more to get more rebounds... C'mon man.... Doesn't work that way. You only can have some many players on the court at a time.

Millsap was getting destroyed by Morris and Bud just sat there and watched it happen...Just could not understand why.

[Peoriabird]

3 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

I made up my mind about the players by watching them for 82 games.   So you're making the case that the players have largely sucked this year because of the coaching?    Who on this team is better than you think they are generally given credit for?   Sap is a really good PF and an all star but not really on the level of the other #1 options on playoff teams.   No one else on the team even comes close to that level.   Do you disagree?   That being the case then how in the world should we be expected to contend against teams that have superstars and multiple all stars?   

Impossible...Many of the players on the team now weren't even there at the beginning of the season...Plus, there has been line up changes and growth amongst the younger players like Prince and THjr.  So they aren't the same players they were during the season and this isn't the same team during the season so it is impossible to draw conclusions about this team based on the 1st half of the season

[marco102]

5 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

Impossible...Many of the players on the team now weren't even there at the beginning of the season...Plus, there has been line up changes and growth amongst the younger players like Prince and THjr.  So they aren't the same players they were during the season and this isn't the same team during the season so it is impossible to draw conclusions about this team based on the 1st half of the season

So Bud should have played Hardaway more by your logic? You know cause he grew so much during the season and all.

[Bankingitbig]

11 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

Millsap was getting destroyed by Morris and Bud just sat there and watched it happen...Just could not understand why.

I would hardly say Morris was "destroying" Millsap. He was only 8-19 from the field and 2-6 from the three. And Millsap was doing a decent job of drawing fouls against him (and should have had more). That said, Millsap definitely didn't play up to his par and needs to do better on the boards.

I think it would be a horrible, amateur and kneejerk decision to bench my best player and allstar in Game 1 of a series so that my backup can get more minutes. History tells us that Millsap is a MUCH better defender than Ilyasova, so why would I trust Ilyasova to be better at defending Morris. We need Millsap to play well and like himself to win this series. Not going to win it by taking minutes from Millsap and giving them to Ilyasova.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Dwight ABSOLUTELY plays that coverage on the pick and roll against Wall correctly.  Why?

Because Wall was only 3 - 9 FG from the midrange in that game.

 

What you DON'T want to do, is 

a) Let him get to the rim

b) let him get into the lane, where he can toss a lob to Gortat or another big for an easy dunk.

 

You actually WANT to turn Wall into a midrange shooter, because that's something that he normally doesn't do at an elite level.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Wall's shotchart on the year.  No red zones anywhere on this chart.  He's an average to below average jumpshooter, although improving in those areas.   You WANT him shooting jumpers, and not getting to the basket or creating for others.