Little Goldie should be traded.

[Diesel]

1.  I would make sure that Sund was Fired and nowhere near the team... (Just make sure). 

2,  I would end our marriage to Bud because I don't think Bud gets it.  I don't think Bud can win without talent and the road we're going down is a talentless road.

3.  I would make my team younger by trading Dennis for Fox.  IF I have to, I would add in a future first rounder. 

4.  I would not persue THJr because he is too good for my franchise and he's too old for my franchise.

5.  I would hire Nick U'Ren as my new head coach and allow him to assemble his coaching staff. 

6.  I would realize that I can't move Baze right now so I would wait til his final year. 

7.  I would find some guys to fill out the roster.  Guys that are not going to win a lot.   (Ilyasova, Joe Harris, Aron Bynes, Norris Cole  All 1 year deals). 

The face of the Hawks would be Prince, Fox, and Collins.

  

 

 

 

 

[Admin]

5 minutes ago, HawkItus said:

Man he was dishing to guys who couldn't shoot or finish.  If we play uptempo and let these young guys go he could definitely get to the double digit assist mark. 

All he can do is drive and hope that someone helps on D. That's the limit of his passing acumen. He's never gonna be the type to make passes where you're like wow how did he see that? 

[Diesel]

10 minutes ago, Sothron said:

Dennis initially was a pass first unselfish PG that had great court vision. Then over the years he's developed into a shoot first PG that doesn't pass as much as he should. My big fear is how will he develop now that he is clearly the only dog left on the team that can score.

I don't agree with trading him unless Sac did offer Fox to us for him. We could rebuild our young guys together but we can't just give Dennis away. He's a good player that just needs to bring his passing back up to where it used to be.

It's not that he's shoot first... that's only half of it.  His passing quality is not great.  I would trade him for Fox... I wold not give him away though.  I think SacTown is thirsting for a guy to be the lead over there.  That's why they are talking to Vince Carter and Otto Porter. They won't get Porter and I don't know if they are not keeping Fox no matter what.  A guy like Dennis could help them with leadership.  My thought is that since we're going young, let's get even younger and let our guys grow together. 

 

 

[Diesel]

6 minutes ago, HawkItus said:

I'm not saying he might not continue down the dark  side.   Bur, it is also conceivable that he with a more mature attitude could work to get  his young guys going.  Also, last years team could not shoot, finish, and lacked athleticism in the first 9.  Now he is working with guys that could run with him.   

As the Hawks Historian here...

I take you to Isiah Rider.  Let's forget the off the court shananigans on this one.  Rider was a gifted scorer and because of his overshawdowing attitude... he helped ruined the early years for Jason Terry.  He made it where Jason Terry would defer to him on the court.  This just in 4 months of play.  Terry.. .a young player... never learned how to lead an offense because Rider never would let him.  You're about to put Dennis on the court with Collins, Prince, and a whole bunch of guys who know nothing about playing their game on this level.   I just see Dennis dominating the ball because he wants to be John Wall and stunting their growth. 

 

[HawkItus]

1 minute ago, Dolfan23 said:

All he can do is drive and hope that someone helps on D. That's the limit of his passing acumen. He's never gonna be the type to make passes where you're like wow how did he see that? 

I have to disagree I saw a lot of standing around when Dennis had the ball.  When Prince was in the game with our motion guys he had big assist numbers.  Example:

First to games in the Playoffs against Washington 26/10 and 29/11  he later had a 27/9 in the 3rd game.  He can do it.

[Flight]

De'Aaron prolly won't get traded at this point. As much as I'd agree that we could use him i doubt it's possible now. He definitely has star potential and probably a higher ceiling than Dennis. 

I think my worry lies in Dennis being our pg of the future. Just because point guards do better when they have teammates that really support and relate them. I don't think many international point guards have as easy of a time building that bond. 

[DJlaysitup]

Assists can be a misleading statistic.  Back in the day, Teague would dribble down the court, toss the ball to Korver who would take what for most players we would call an ill-advised three - drain it - and Jeff gets an assist.  I realize that it would be impossible to judge each assist on it's merit - but unless you have a PG who is an assist machine like CP3 was early in his career - it's hard to judge a players value that much just off of assists.  Personally, I think assist to turnover ratio is usually a better yardstick.

[HawkItus]

7 minutes ago, Diesel said:

As the Hawks Historian here...

I take you to Isiah Rider.  Let's forget the off the court shananigans on this one.  Rider was a gifted scorer and because of his overshawdowing attitude... he helped ruined the early years for Jason Terry.  He made it where Jason Terry would defer to him on the court.  This just in 4 months of play.  Terry.. .a young player... never learned how to lead an offense because Rider never would let him.  You're about to put Dennis on the court with Collins, Prince, and a whole bunch of guys who know nothing about playing their game on this level.   I just see Dennis dominating the ball because he wants to be John Wall and stunting their growth. 

 

How are you the Hawks Historian around here lol?  I watched that Rider team.  And your comparison is, pardon my french, doo doo.   That team was not a young squad.  Rider and Jackson came over under duress.  They weren't established vets on the team.  That year Terry was more hampered by Lenny using Bimbo Coles and Barry than Rider.  Shoot even Jackson got some burn at Point over the rookie.  That experiment started in pre-season.

Edited July 3, 2017 by HawkItus

[AHF]

1 minute ago, DJlaysitup said:

Assists can be a misleading statistic.  Back in the day, Teague would dribble down the court, toss the ball to Korver who would take what for most players we would call an ill-advised three - drain it - and Jeff gets an assist.  I realize that it would be impossible to judge each assist on it's merit - but unless you have a PG who is an assist machine like CP3 was early in his career - it's hard to judge a players value that much just off of assists.  Personally, I think assist to turnover ratio is usually a better yardstick.

You are right that they can be misleading.  Starbury and AI had some seasons with nice assist number by dominating the ball to the exclusion of their teammates and any team offense.  

[Diesel]

2 minutes ago, Flight said:

De'Aaron prolly won't get traded at this point. As much as I'd agree that we could use him i doubt it's possible now. He definitely has star potential and probably a higher ceiling than Dennis. 

I think my worry lies in Dennis being our pg of the future. Just because point guards do better when they have teammates that really support and relate them. I don't think many international point guards have as easy of a time building that bond. 

Dennis/1st to Sactown for Fox.

[Admin]

9 minutes ago, HawkItus said:

I have to disagree I saw a lot of standing around when Dennis had the ball.  When Prince was in the game with our motion guys he had big assist numbers.  Example:

First to games in the Playoffs against Washington 26/10 and 29/11  he later had a 27/9 in the 3rd game.  He can do it.

Sure he can have games like that. But those are his best games. Guys who average 20/10 routinely have 14+ assist games to balance it out. Let's see him break the 7apg on a season average before people start talking about him averaging 10apg for a whole season. 

[willthepureshooter]

Fox can't shoot so why in the heck would we trade the better point guard and a 1st round pick for him?

[CP61]

I love Dennis, but trading him isn't crazy. I wouldn't do it for Fox because a 165 lb kid who isn't a shooter scares me: I mean, he could be great, but I think there's a better chance he busts than the other top PGs in this class.

I also wouldn't trade Dennis yet. When he's the only scorer on the dang team next year and putting points is when his stock will be highest I think. I would want to keep him, but I trust Schlenk. If Dennis could get us a top ten pick next year, I doubt he could but you bet know, I'd be okay with the deal. 

[HawkItus]

Just now, Dolfan23 said:

Sure he can have games like that. But those are his best games. Guys who average 20/10 routinely have 14+ assist games to balance it out. Let's see him break the 7apg on a season average before people start talking about him averaging 10apg for a whole season. 

ok, but let's give him more than 1 year as a starter do so as well.

[Admin]

3 minutes ago, HawkItus said:

How are you the Hawks Historian around here lol?  I watched that Rider team.  And your comparison is, pardon my french, doo doo.   That team was not a young squad.  Rider and Jackson came over under duress.  They weren't established vets on the team.  That year Terry was more hampered by Lenny using Bimbo Coles and Barry than Rider.  Shoot even Jackson got some burn at Point over the rookie.  That experiment started in pre-season.

And Jason Terry was never a natural PG. He was basically an undersized SG in college and the same carried over to the pros. Dennis is MUCH more of a natural PG than Jet was. 

Just now, willthepureshooter said:

Fox can't shoot so why in the heck would we trade the better point guard and a 1st round pick for him?

Agreed with that no way we send them a 1st unless they're taking Plumlee. 

[Admin]

Just now, HawkItus said:

ok, but let's give him more than 1 year as a starter do so as well.

I'm more than willing to give him several more years as a starter. I'm just saying don't be surprised that he doesn't have that type of game to him. I would guess he's got more chance of being a 30 ppg scorer than a 10 apg distributor. 

[Diesel]

1 minute ago, HawkItus said:

How are you the Hawks Historian around here lol?  I watched that Rider team.  And your comparison is, pardon my french, doo doo.   That team was not a young squad.  Rider and Jackson came over under duress.  They weren't established vets on the team.  That year Terry was more hampered by Lenny using Bimbo Coles and Barry than Rider.

Uhm.. .that was our rebuilding year... let me help you.

 

We drafted Terry, Glover, Bowdler, and Jackson (who we traded to Philly). 
We then traded Smitty for Rider and JJ (both of whom were considered young guys). 

We started off with Terry/Rider as our starting backcourt.  Rider was the 2 but everytime he hit the floor, he demanded the ball.  After a while Terry would just give him the ball and run to the corner.

In fact, At one point, in an interview,Terry said that he was not a PG.. but he was a "GUARD".

Yes.. after that  Lenny did put more trust in the veteran Coles because Terry would come in and get embarrased and then he would try to give the ball to Rider to run the offense.  I specifically remember Mookie putting up a triple double on Terry and I think it was Points, Steals, and Assists.   It was so bad that Terry couldn't get the ball past halfcourt. 

We eventually released Rider around Feb. because of his off the court shanangins but on the court, he did just as much damage because he was a scorer who got to run the offense and look for his shot.

 

[HawkItus]

Just now, Dolfan23 said:

I'm more than willing to give him several more years as a starter. I'm just saying don't be surprised that he doesn't have that type of game to him. I would guess he's got more chance of being a 30 ppg scorer than a 10 apg distributor. 

If he his a 30 ppg player then I really hate the idea of trading.  He'd be a bigger IT at that point. 

[Diesel]

3 minutes ago, willthepureshooter said:

Fox can't shoot so why in the heck would we trade the better point guard and a 1st round pick for him?

The Better PG??

Dennis is an off Gaurd.  Fox has tools!

[Watchman]

8 minutes ago, DJlaysitup said:

Assists can be a misleading statistic.  Back in the day, Teague would dribble down the court, toss the ball to Korver who would take what for most players we would call an ill-advised three - drain it - and Jeff gets an assist.  I realize that it would be impossible to judge each assist on it's merit - but unless you have a PG who is an assist machine like CP3 was early in his career - it's hard to judge a players value that much just off of assists.  Personally, I think assist to turnover ratio is usually a better yardstick.

And Dennis's assist to turnover ratio is mediocre at best.

4 minutes ago, willthepureshooter said:

Fox can't shoot so why in the heck would we trade the better point guard and a 1st round pick for him?

We wouldn't be.