Hawks fans making it through a TANK...

[DocWilkins]

I am here...My get up and go for the Hawks has got up and left. I bought an old Sherman to drive to work everyday and am becoming a fine operator. I don't give a Schlenk about the hawks right now. I am hoping that will all change with some glimmers of hop(e) on the floor this year. I going to watch the games in my Garage Majal and won't be near as clad in my Hawks gear this year but I WILL BE HERE! I love this forum and I still love the Hawks...I just hope at some point they show me some love...Someday! 

Edited July 24, 2017 by DocWilkins

[Peoriabird]

35 minutes ago, KB21 said:

I have a child that has Autism, but I don't view that and winning athletic events as the same.

That's tough..sorry to hear that about your son. But as far as winning and losing is concerned...your right we all prefer to win championships every year but that wasn't going to happen with Milsapp as your best player @32. heck, the best player on the planet is 3-5 in the finals

[sillent]

8 hours ago, Diesel said:

Before the tank start this season.  I think it is right that we develop a Hawksquawk Search team.   I believe that for some who may believe that we will be a 35 win team or that Dennis is going to turn it up to be an allstar, the disappointment of this season will be tremendous and they may leave the fanhood.    Believe me, I have seen how tanking can do this to a fan.  WE never did find Walter after the Billy Knight Tank Job.   So.. by the time of April, we will have to review our fan roster and find a way to seek out and find despondent fans who have gone to other teams.   My guess is that many of you will be on the Minnesota Timberwolves messageboard.   Some of you will go to the Houston Messageboard.   Some will just stop watching basketball altogether. I just would like to establish this search and rescue team for people like Hazer who is under the belief that we will still be good.   Below you will find our logo.  It's like the bat signal.   It's a reminder that the treadmill wasn't all that bad... and that it takes somebody to hold your hand if you're going to make it through a tank.

 

 

I think the majority of you "Hawks" fans are going to be even more disappointed when you find out we're not tanking. You're going to be baffled by wins and mad at our lottery position. We will be the surprise story of the league and a lesson in the difference between "Tanking" and "Revamping". You don't tank by keeping key young pieces with a hungry desire to win and add key vets just to aid the process. True tanking requires getting rid of all serviceable pieces young and old see "76ers" ( Iggy, Thad Young, Speights, Lou Will, their rookie of the year MCW, Ish Smith, Okafor(next)). To ensure a tank you get rid of all competitors because if you slip up and leave a few on the roster they could mess up your tank job. We slipped up and left atleast 2 (Dennis, Prince) while adding 1(John Collins) and I'm just saying 1 to be generous to those that have yet proved themselves. Vets like Belinelli, Illy and Dedmon are eager to step up and play bigger roles if need be. Baze, Bembry, Dorsey, Delaney, Muscala, Diamond Stone as well as Dennis and Prince are eager to step it up and prove themselves to the multiple doubters. Bud and company has alot to prove to himself as well. You don't put a hungry team like this on the floor and expect "Tank". If they miss the playoffs okay so they possibly weren't constructed to be good enough but to think they are going to give games away is a big mistake. The East is ironically weak enough for this to be perfect timing for us to still be competitive and make the playoffs. DON'T BE MAD OR SURPRISED THINKING OUR TEAM CANNOT GET TANKING RIGHT WHEN THAT WAS NOT OUR PURPOSE DESPITE CONTRARY BELIEF.

The score is 0-0. When it's 11-31 than we can talk about tanking. 

[Diesel]

5 hours ago, Dejay said:

If I'm still here after watching a coked up John Drew and Eddie Johnson try to play ball, Nique doing the impossible with the likes of Jon Koncak and Snoop Graham riding shotgun in the lineup, Henry James, Ty Corbin, Willie Burton, and Darrin Hancock take their turns at trying to play small forward in the same season (all to no avail), and watching one dud after the next become millionaires by virtue of the Hawks spending lottery picks on them, I can endure another painful attempt at rebuilding this team right. I've never seen it successfully happen before in my lifetime but oh well...

Dejay.. You just made the rescue squad.  Welcome aboard!!!

[Diesel]

4 hours ago, Peoriabird said:

I'm with wretch...I love to see young players develop right in front of your eyes...That why I love the current Falcons team...almost 100% home grown. I definitely will enjoy watching the current core grow together and looking forward to appreciating Schlenk's skill as a talent evaluator over the next 2 drafts.

I have seen Young players develop.  John Drew, Dominique, Mookie, Smitty, Terry, Horford, Joe, DMC Sap, Etc.  I have come to the point that I want us to win a championship.    Whether it's through development or if it's because we went out and bought a team.. I want to see us win one. 

[hazer]

3 hours ago, KB21 said:

I guess as a guy who is a former baseball player...

Very cool, congrats! I was a college pitcher, on scholarship, so I understand. I hate losing too, but especially treadmill losing in the early rounds of the playoffs. To me, that's the ultimate loser mentality. I want to win so bad that I understand and accept this strategic move to actually get us into a better position to win deeper into the postseason than just treadmill losing early. And I don't see anyone around here saying they "accept" losing and that it's fun. It's a "and 1-step-back, 2-steps forward" scenario. The fun part being new, young, energetic, exciting, promising players developing into something better right before our eyes. The exciting part is new hope of escaping treadmill early exits me making it further than we have been.

Edited July 24, 2017 by hazer

[Peoriabird]

2 minutes ago, Diesel said:

I have seen Young players develop.  John Drew, Dominique, Mookie, Smitty, Terry, Horford, Joe, DMC Sap, Etc.  I have come to the point that I want us to win a championship.    Whether it's through development or if it's because we went out and bought a team.. I want to see us win one. 

You truly didn't believe we were contenders with last year's team did you?

[hazer]

4 minutes ago, Diesel said:

I have seen Young players develop.  John Drew, Dominique, Mookie, Smitty, Terry, Horford, Joe, DMC Sap, Etc.  I have come to the point that I want us to win a championship.    Whether it's through development or if it's because we went out and bought a team.. I want to see us win one. 

We've all seen that, we all want that...

[hazer]

35 minutes ago, sillent said:

I think the majority of you "Hawks" fans are going to be even more disappointed when you find out we're not tanking. You're going to be baffled by wins and mad at our lottery position. We will be the surprise story of the league and a lesson in the difference between "Tanking" and "Revamping". You don't tank by keeping key young pieces with a hungry desire to win and add key vets just to aid the process. True tanking requires getting rid of all serviceable pieces young and old see "76ers" ( Iggy, Thad Young, Speights, Lou Will, their rookie of the year MCW, Ish Smith, Okafor(next)). To ensure a tank you get rid of all competitors because if you slip up and leave a few on the roster they could mess up your tank job. We slipped up and left atleast 2 (Dennis, Prince) while adding 1(John Collins) and I'm just saying 1 to be generous to those that have yet proved themselves. Vets like Belinelli, Illy and Dedmon are eager to step up and play bigger roles if need be. Baze, Bembry, Dorsey, Delaney, Muscala, Diamond Stone as well as Dennis and Prince are eager to step it up and prove themselves to the multiple doubters. Bud and company has alot to prove to himself as well. You don't put a hungry team like this on the floor and expect "Tank". If they miss the playoffs okay so they possibly weren't constructed to be good enough but to think they are going to give games away is a big mistake. The East is ironically weak enough for this to be perfect timing for us to still be competitive and make the playoffs. DON'T BE MAD OR SURPRISED THINKING OUR TEAM CANNOT GET TANKING RIGHT WHEN THAT WAS NOT OUR PURPOSE DESPITE CONTRARY BELIEF.

The score is 0-0. When it's 11-31 than we can talk about tanking. 

We've pointed this out to him a dozen times, wasted breath...

[Diesel]

2 hours ago, Lurker said:

If you stop saying that Dennis sucks, I will stop talking about Dwight completely.

Deal? If you still talk bad on Dennis, I will continue to talk very bad about Dwight.

The problem is that you believe that I care about Dwight or what you have to say about Dwight.  My fanhood of Dwight ended when he left the Hawks.   NO.. What I care about is HONESTY.  It's a historically a bad deal that we completed by moving back in the  draft spot and taking on a bad contract in order to move Dwight.  The dishonesty is that Hawksfans applaud it as if it were good or feel the need to make up reasons why the move was completely necessary.  I just think that when History looks back on this deal, History will be harsh.   The same is true about Dennis.  Dishonesty in the fact that he's a mediocre starting PG.  Not Great.. Mediocre.  Can he improve, I hope so but the change has to happen between his ears. 

[Diesel]

55 minutes ago, sillent said:

I think the majority of you "Hawks" fans are going to be even more disappointed when you find out we're not tanking. You're going to be baffled by wins and mad at our lottery position. We will be the surprise story of the league and a lesson in the difference between "Tanking" and "Revamping". You don't tank by keeping key young pieces with a hungry desire to win and add key vets just to aid the process. True tanking requires getting rid of all serviceable pieces young and old see "76ers" ( Iggy, Thad Young, Speights, Lou Will, their rookie of the year MCW, Ish Smith, Okafor(next)). To ensure a tank you get rid of all competitors because if you slip up and leave a few on the roster they could mess up your tank job. We slipped up and left atleast 2 (Dennis, Prince) while adding 1(John Collins) and I'm just saying 1 to be generous to those that have yet proved themselves. Vets like Belinelli, Illy and Dedmon are eager to step up and play bigger roles if need be. Baze, Bembry, Dorsey, Delaney, Muscala, Diamond Stone as well as Dennis and Prince are eager to step it up and prove themselves to the multiple doubters. Bud and company has alot to prove to himself as well. You don't put a hungry team like this on the floor and expect "Tank". If they miss the playoffs okay so they possibly weren't constructed to be good enough but to think they are going to give games away is a big mistake. The East is ironically weak enough for this to be perfect timing for us to still be competitive and make the playoffs. DON'T BE MAD OR SURPRISED THINKING OUR TEAM CANNOT GET TANKING RIGHT WHEN THAT WAS NOT OUR PURPOSE DESPITE CONTRARY BELIEF.

The score is 0-0. When it's 11-31 than we can talk about tanking. 

Don't worry Silent... The rescue squad is here for you too.  You say that we're not tanking.. you need to define for yourself what tanking looks like.    You can't just look at our team and say.. Oh they will be good based on the fact that they are what... Younger?  First off... a lot of other teams got better too.   Secondly... you overrate some of our young players.   The players who are NBA level right now are Baze, Dennis and Prince... and that's it.  Moose knows the system but Moose is not good NOW... Belenelli is a wildcard.  It's just a lose competitively kind of team. 

[hazer]

3 minutes ago, Diesel said:

Don't worry Silent... The rescue squad is here for you too.  You say that we're not tanking.. you need to define for yourself what tanking looks like.    You can't just look at our team and say.. Oh they will be good based on the fact that they are what... Younger?  First off... a lot of other teams got better too.   Secondly... you overrate some of our young players.   The players who are NBA level right now are Baze, Dennis and Prince... and that's it.  Moose knows the system but Moose is not good NOW... Belenelli is a wildcard.  It's just a lose competitively kind of team. 

Again, for the dozenth time, nobody thinks we're going to be "good." For someone so into "honesty", are you going to sit here and tell us that you "honestly" think any of us are saying the Hawks are going to be "good." Because NO one is saying that.

[Diesel]

1 minute ago, hazer said:

Again, for the dozenth time, nobody thinks we're going to be "good." For someone so into "honesty", are you going to sit here and tell us that you "honestly" think any of us are saying the Hawks are going to be "good." Because NO one is saying that.

So are you saying that nobody believes that we will win 35 games and make the playoffs?  Are you saying that nobody on this board has said that?  Have you said that?

 

[hazer]

8 minutes ago, Diesel said:

So are you saying that nobody believes that we will win 35 games and make the playoffs?  Are you saying that nobody on this board has said that?  Have you said that?

 

Winning 35 games and sneaking in the playoffs isn't "good." It's like you have zero grasp of nuance. What I've said, on several occasions, is they'll probably win 27-32 games. For the reasons @sillent pointed out. What I've also said is that IF they hit on all their IFs (Dennis continues his improvement and plays like playoff Dennis, Baze reverts back to normal, Prince continues playing like playoff Prince, Collins plays like ROTY), that they could possibly squeeze out 35 wins. Which is only 2 more than oddsmakers are calling. Which might sneak into the playoffs in a week East. NOwhere have I said they'd be good. I'm standing by 27-32 wins, which is LESS than the oddsmakers. Which is not "good."

Edited July 24, 2017 by hazer

[Sothron]

1 minute ago, hazer said:

Winning 35 games and sneaking in the playoffs isn't "good." It's like you zero grasp of the nuance. What I've said, on several occasions, is they'll probably win 27-32 games. For the reasons @sillent pointed out. What I've also said is that IF they hit on all their IFs (Dennis continues his improvement and plays like playoff Dennis, Baze reverts back to normal, Prince continues playing like playoff Prince, Collins plays like ROTY), that they could possibly squeeze out 35 wins. Which is only 2 more than oddsmakers are calling. Which might sneak into the playoffs in a week East. NOwhere have I said they'd be good. I'm standing by 27-32 wins, which is LESS than the oddsmakers. Which is not "good."

He's asking you if anyone on the entire board has said that or will say that. There's no way to answer that question other than yes because I have seen some people say this team can win 35 or more games and sneak into the playoffs.

[hazer]

Just now, Sothron said:

He's asking you if anyone on the entire board has said that or will say that. There's no way to answer that question other than yes because I have seen some people say this team can win 35 or more games and sneak into the playoffs.

No, he was asking me directly. Read my response and what I've actually said.

[KB21]

1 hour ago, hazer said:

Very cool, congrats! I was a college pitcher, on scholarship, so I understand. I hate losing too, but especially treadmill losing in the early rounds of the playoffs. To me, that's the ultimate loser mentality. I want to win so bad that I understand and accept this strategic move to actually get us into a better position to win deeper into the postseason than just treadmill losing early. And I don't see anyone around here saying they "accept" losing and that it's fun. It's a "and 1-step-back, 2-steps forward" scenario. The fun part being new, young, energetic, exciting, promising players developing into something better right before our eyes. The exciting part is new hope of escaping treadmill early exits me making it further than we have been.

But your hope of escaping the playoff treadmill is to go on the lottery treadmill, where you are more likely to become the 76ers, Suns, and Magic than you are the OKC Thunder.   Even if the data didn't show how foolish this strategy is, from an intuitive standpoint, it still doesn't make sense. 

[hazer]

2 minutes ago, Sothron said:

He's asking you if anyone on the entire board has said that or will say that. There's no way to answer that question other than yes because I have seen some people say this team can win 35 or more games and sneak into the playoffs.

I've said in the past that IF they hit on a lot of IFs, their ceiling would be 35 wins which might sneak into the playoffs in a weak East. But I feel like that's improbable and 27-32 is more likely. Diesel Tank takes that to mean I think they'll win 35+ games and will be good.

[hazer]

1 minute ago, KB21 said:

But your hope of escaping the playoff treadmill is to go on the lottery treadmill, where you are more likely to become the 76ers, Suns, and Magic than you are the OKC Thunder.   Even if the data didn't show how foolish this strategy is, from an intuitive standpoint, it still doesn't make sense. 

If we'd also shipped out Dennis, Bembry, Prince, and Moose for picks and D-Leaguers you'd be exactly right. But this is more of a 27-win team than a 17-win team.

[KB21]

2 minutes ago, hazer said:

If we'd also shipped out Dennis, Bembry, Prince, and Moose for picks and D-Leaguers you'd be exactly right. But this is more of a 27-win team than a 17-win team.

Like I have said before, if this team wins 27-30 games this year, it will be bar none the best coaching job in the history of the NBA, because Bud will truly be making chicken salad out of chicken shit.