LaVar Ball Wowww.

[AHF]

13 hours ago, DUrce1 said:

The NBA would probably undercut Ball before he could get a league started. Either lower the draft age to 18 or possibly allow them to play in the NBADL. These guys that would be playing in Ball's league would be risking losing too much from potential injury. 

 

7 hours ago, Diesel said:

The NCAA has been prostituting this kids for too long.  If another option comes along (It may not be Ball) that can develop them and pay them something for their time... I can see it bringing in a lot of players.  Especially those who have no business being in college. 

Totally agree with D that the NCAA has been selling these kids for a long time.  The reason the NBA has allowed them to keep doing it is the NBA doesn't want to pay for the costs of minor league ball.  Ball is essentially proposing to run a minor league except it will be one where the primary focus is not on development.  I think a good potential outcome of this would be the NBA starting a legit minor league system and lowering the age limit with a structure around it where guys could develop over time in the minors and then start their "major league" clocks when they are ready ala MLB.  

Ball has to make the NBA fear that his league is really legit though and there is a lot of work to do beyond splashing the idea to make it financially sustainable.  Ball may be the face for his league but he won't be the one writing the checks.

[Diesel]

2 hours ago, AHF said:

 

Totally agree with D that the NCAA has been selling these kids for a long time.  The reason the NBA has allowed them to keep doing it is the NBA doesn't want to pay for the costs of minor league ball.  Ball is essentially proposing to run a minor league except it will be one where the primary focus is not on development.  I think a good potential outcome of this would be the NBA starting a legit minor league system and lowering the age limit with a structure around it where guys could develop over time in the minors and then start their "major league" clocks when they are ready ala MLB.  

Ball has to make the NBA fear that his league is really legit though and there is a lot of work to do beyond splashing the idea to make it financially sustainable.  Ball may be the face for his league but he won't be the one writing the checks.

My fear is that Ball has already alienated the people who could help him to do it.   It would be much easier if he could get sponsorship from Nike, Addidas, Reebok, UnderArmor, and some of these other sports brands, but BBB has alienated them.  I don't think that players are even former players are organized enough to collaborate with him on this.   For him to make this happen, he would need to get the television companies attention.   It would have to be stronger than the And 1 tour and it would have to pull in a crowd.   IF he could do that, he could be the Dana White of amatuer Basketball. 

[MaceCase]

Even without LaVar alienating the big shoe companies they are already deeply in bed with the NCAA.  Nike, Adidas, and UA are not going from handing out deals in the 100s of millions to certain schools to now sponsoring the direct competitor.

[Diesel]

10 hours ago, MaceCase said:

Even without LaVar alienating the big shoe companies they are already deeply in bed with the NCAA.  Nike, Adidas, and UA are not going from handing out deals in the 100s of millions to certain schools to now sponsoring the direct competitor.

This may be true.   But it depends on what players Lavar can get.   If he can consistently get the best players to play in his league, the shoe companies will follow.   It's a waste for some of these guys who go to the NCAA because they have to give so much and get so little.   I see a possible shorter schedule but he has to have publicity. 

[MaceCase]

3 hours ago, Diesel said:

This may be true.   But it depends on what players Lavar can get.   If he can consistently get the best players to play in his league, the shoe companies will follow.   It's a waste for some of these guys who go to the NCAA because they have to give so much and get so little.   I see a possible shorter schedule but he has to have publicity. 

I think we have completely varying opinions on the timeline that it would take to establish this.  That and I don't think the underlying motive here is being considered.  LaVar has made it clear he doesn't want involvement from the big shoe companies unless they cut him an exorbitant check or give considerable equity in their companies.  He asked for like a billion dollars for his 3 boys so lord knows what his asking price would be for this league. 

The big shoe companies are not doing that unless they are seeing a huge ROI meaning that LaVar's league would have to be extremely marketable beforehand.  The big shoe companies sponsor these universities because of the exposure that they get from the school and also getting a jump start on getting the future stars of the pro leagues signed to their brands.  It's just simple marketing.  I touched on this earlier but it seems very likely that LaVar intends on doing the same by having all of the players in his league decked in BBB.  The intent is that they sign fully once they go pro and the marketing of his brands goes back to filling his own pockets.  LaVar's whole shtick has been "all these big companies exploit these kids so why can't I too?", this isn't some altruistic endeavor, he's investing in these players expecting reciprocity. 

[thecampster]

On 12/20/2017 at 9:29 PM, Diesel said:

It's awful for the NCAA.  Imagine if he has 3 classes where all of the Mcdonald's star go to his league instead of College?  I bet it wouldn't be long before the NCAA ask him to allow his team to compete in the tourney.

As far as coaching, I don't think this have to be an extension of AAU.  It can easily be an extension of the NBADL. 

LOL.....Let me show you how this plays out.

 

Son - "Mama....Mr. Ball says he's going to pay me $50,000 to play in the Big Baller league for 1 year and then I can go right to the NBA."

Mama - "Oh and if that doesn't work out you can go to college then?"

Son - "Nah Ma! Once I get paid, I can't go to college but Ma, it's 50 G large and you know I'm going to the NBA."

Silence ensues for a few minutes while Mama takes a walk to her bedroom. She returns with a wooden spoon, a shoe, a belt, wooden paddle, the remote to turn off the house wifi, a can of pepper spray and a loaded taser.

Mama - "Oh Hells no.  Do you think I put in all those late nights, washed your sheets and went to all those middle school games so that you could throw away a free college education. Get over here while I show you Jesus."

[Diesel]

56 minutes ago, MaceCase said:

I think we have completely varying opinions on the timeline that it would take to establish this.  That and I don't think the underlying motive here is being considered.  LaVar has made it clear he doesn't want involvement from the big shoe companies unless they cut him an exorbitant check or give considerable equity in their companies.  He asked for like a billion dollars for his 3 boys so lord knows what his asking price would be for this league. 

The big shoe companies are not doing that unless they are seeing a huge ROI meaning that LaVar's league would have to be extremely marketable beforehand.  The big shoe companies sponsor these universities because of the exposure that they get from the school and also getting a jump start on getting the future stars of the pro leagues signed to their brands.  It's just simple marketing.  I touched on this earlier but it seems very likely that LaVar intends on doing the same by having all of the players in his league decked in BBB.  The intent is that they sign fully once they go pro and the marketing of his brands goes back to filling his own pockets.  LaVar's whole shtick has been "all these big companies exploit these kids so why can't I too?", this isn't some altruistic endeavor, he's investing in these players expecting reciprocity. 

I think it will take at least 3 iterrations (3 classes)  of him getting the top of the class and some of the middle of the class before it becomes more profitable and him gaining the interest of big investors like shoe companies.   He has a good point about how the Shoe company makes money off of his or his children's name and only want to give them a small share.  Businessman Ball is not a bad guy.   His hyperboyle and slapstick advertisement (bafoonery) is what makes everybody cautious about dealing with him.  

[Diesel]

8 minutes ago, thecampster said:

LOL.....Let me show you how this plays out.

 

Son - "Mama....Mr. Ball says he's going to pay me $50,000 to play in the Big Baller league for 1 year and then I can go right to the NBA."

Mama - "Oh and if that doesn't work out you can go to college then?"

Son - "Nah Ma! Once I get paid, I can't go to college but Ma, it's 50 G large and you know I'm going to the NBA."

Silence ensues for a few minutes while Mama takes a walk to her bedroom. She returns with a wooden spoon, a shoe, a belt, wooden paddle, the remote to turn off the house wifi, a can of pepper spray and a loaded taser.

Mama - "Oh Hells no.  Do you think I put in all those late nights, washed your sheets and went to all those middle school games so that you could throw away a free college education. Get over here while I show you Jesus."

Not quite.   If that don't work out has the same possibility as if he were to go to college and it not work out.  He can still go into the draft.   And if that don't work out, he can go back to college as a student if that is what he desires.   However, playing basketball in college is no guarantee that he will get a college degree.   Moreover, I'm willing to bet that Mr. Ball will let them make money off of their own name.   Merchmoney.   NCAA doesn't let them do that Mama. 

[Lurker]

Another problem is this would require the NCAA to comply and change the rules with possibly signing with an agent but maybe perhaps you backtrack and go to college.

I doubt that happens.

[AHF]

26 minutes ago, Lurker said:

Another problem is this would require the NCAA to comply and change the rules with possibly signing with an agent but maybe perhaps you backtrack and go to college.

I doubt that happens.

It wouldn't require this and the NCAA couldn't do this and try to maintain their fiction of amateur athletes.  If it happens, it will happen without the NCAA being part.

[Diesel]

4 hours ago, Lurker said:

Another problem is this would require the NCAA to comply and change the rules with possibly signing with an agent but maybe perhaps you backtrack and go to college.

I doubt that happens.

Right now, what the NBA is doing on behalf of the NCAA is unconstitutional.  The 1 year mandate would be seen as unconstitutional if it only applied to the NCAA.  That creates a monopoly.   The NCAA could do nothing to really hinder Ball if he were to try to start an alternate league, I just believe it would take too much money for him to do so. 

[Lurker]

Just now, Diesel said:

Right now, what the NBA is doing on behalf of the NCAA is unconstitutional.  The 1 year mandate would be seen as unconstitutional if it only applied to the NCAA.  That creates a monopoly.   The NCAA could do nothing to really hinder Ball if he were to try to start an alternate league, I just believe it would take too much money for him to do so. 

Let's say a player decides to change their mind and go to college, after signing with an agent and trying this league out (unlikely as it sounds like pro AAU to me but still). Even though this is not the NBA, you'd have to have agents with signing players. They'd still want to play in college to stay sharp, but due to NCAA rules, they'd be ineligible.

I do want this to become a serious threat because what's needed is not this, but a legitimate minor league. For guys like the one I will not name, I'm sorry but college sports are not about developing teenagers, it's about win at all costs (this goes with college football too).

What's needed is true minor league basketball that is purely about the growth and development of basketball players.

[MaceCase]

8 hours ago, Diesel said:

I think it will take at least 3 iterrations (3 classes)  of him getting the top of the class and some of the middle of the class before it becomes more profitable and him gaining the interest of big investors like shoe companies.   He has a good point about how the Shoe company makes money off of his or his children's name and only want to give them a small share.  Businessman Ball is not a bad guy.   His hyperboyle and slapstick advertisement (bafoonery) is what makes everybody cautious about dealing with him.  

Well, you still are a bad guy if you're calling out one group of crooks while attempting to engage in the same criminal activity that they are.  LaVar's whole manifesto has been having BBB rival Nike, Adidas, UA, and the Chinese brands.  I don't see how he turns about face and subverts his brand to partner with them and they aren't giving him an imprint like Jordan brand solely based on 3 recruiting classes.  The latter is still entirely unlikely that the top guys are turning down the facilities, coaching staffs, exposure, and experience being the big man on campus at Kentucky or Duke all for 100k.  I mean, it's not as if the shoe companies, agents, and boosters aren't already funneling these guys cash and perks...

[Diesel]

8 hours ago, Lurker said:

Let's say a player decides to change their mind and go to college, after signing with an agent and trying this league out (unlikely as it sounds like pro AAU to me but still). Even though this is not the NBA, you'd have to have agents with signing players. They'd still want to play in college to stay sharp, but due to NCAA rules, they'd be ineligible.

I do want this to become a serious threat because what's needed is not this, but a legitimate minor league. For guys like the one I will not name, I'm sorry but college sports are not about developing teenagers, it's about win at all costs (this goes with college football too).

What's needed is true minor league basketball that is purely about the growth and development of basketball players.

I think the NBA has missed the ball in not allowing the NBADL to be it's true minor leagues.  I believe that if Ball seriously works, this could become a true minor league and be an alternative for collegiate basketball.  Does he have AAU roots.  Sure.  However, that doesn't mean that this will be an extension of AAU.  I think that AAU has done for him is show him the power structure and has put him in contact with a lot of the pros.   Think about it, most of the superstars of basketball has gone through AAU ball on their way to college.   Why should college get all the perks of these young men?  One and done has exposed that college is not about degrees and coaching is not about development.  It's just a holding statation where players can be prostituted before becoming pros. 

[Diesel]

6 hours ago, MaceCase said:

Well, you still are a bad guy if you're calling out one group of crooks while attempting to engage in the same criminal activity that they are.  LaVar's whole manifesto has been having BBB rival Nike, Adidas, UA, and the Chinese brands.  I don't see how he turns about face and subverts his brand to partner with them and they aren't giving him an imprint like Jordan brand solely based on 3 recruiting classes.  The latter is still entirely unlikely that the top guys are turning down the facilities, coaching staffs, exposure, and experience being the big man on campus at Kentucky or Duke all for 100k.  I mean, it's not as if the shoe companies, agents, and boosters aren't already funneling these guys cash and perks...

 Well, maybe he realized that you can't stop the crooks?  If he saw Shoe companies about to make 100s of millions off of his son and only offer him a few million, then why not come up with an alternative?  Same with his sons and college. Then after you finish looking at your son, you have to look at other sons.   Then you come up with the thought that this is the only way right now. 

[AHF]

His sons are the right reference point.  He can't claim moral high ground when he is exploiting them blatantly for his own gain.

[MaceCase]

16 hours ago, Diesel said:

 Well, maybe he realized that you can't stop the crooks?  If he saw Shoe companies about to make 100s of millions off of his son and only offer him a few million, then why not come up with an alternative?  Same with his sons and college. Then after you finish looking at your son, you have to look at other sons.   Then you come up with the thought that this is the only way right now. 

I don't discredit what he's done or is doing, I do however discredit those who think it is some means of altruism.  LaVar isn't looking for an alternative to the system, he's looking for an alternative for LaVar to be a part of the system.

[Diesel]

18 hours ago, MaceCase said:

I don't discredit what he's done or is doing, I do however discredit those who think it is some means of altruism.  LaVar isn't looking for an alternative to the system, he's looking for an alternative for LaVar to be a part of the system.

I don't doubt that financial is part of the motivation... However, more important than that is that the game needs this.