Bud addresses the rumors

[NBASupes]

1 hour ago, KB21 said:

So does John Collins.  

No he doesn't

17 minutes ago, KB21 said:

Realize that the mistakes made under Billy Knight because he did not take fit into account.  If he had taken fit into account and knew that he would be gearing up for a run at Joe Johnson, he would have certainly taken Chris Paul instead of Marvin Williams after having a successful late teens pick on Josh Smith.  

We didn't have Joe when we drafted Marvin, we had Chillz and Smoove. 

Edited April 16, 2018 by NBASupes

[KB21]

7 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

No he doesn't

We didn't have Joe when we drafted Marvin, we had Chillz and Smoove. 

That's why I said they were gearing up for a run at Joe.  They signed him that off season.

[NBASupes]

7 minutes ago, KB21 said:

That's why I said they were gearing up for a run at Joe.  They signed him that off season.

Everything you literally said was wrong. Even this point wasn't no fact. We had to so a SnT where we traded Diaw and a future first just to get Joe. PHX could have said no and just matched him like they were planning on doing. That 1st could have been a #4 pick but it happened to be 3rd where are protection was. 

[AHF]

Bear in mind that Bagley is 6 months older than Collins was as a freshman so comparing freshman year to freshman year has the exact same age gap as Collins sophomore year to MB's freshman year.  Neither is a pure apples to apples.

[Royjr9]

2 hours ago, KB21 said:

Realize that the mistakes made under Billy Knight because he did not take fit into account.  If he had taken fit into account and knew that he would be gearing up for a run at Joe Johnson, he would have certainly taken Chris Paul instead of Marvin Williams after having a successful late teens pick on Josh Smith.  

If we all could peer into the future. Knight deciding to run it back with ty lue was one of many blunders he made. Should have been a pg. he didn’t think enough of Paul or d will. But regardless at this moment after ayton and donic  he’s prolly the next talented healthy player ( porter ) so you take him and worry about it later.  

Edited April 16, 2018 by Royjr9

[Royjr9]

1 hour ago, NBASupes said:

No he doesn't

We didn't have Joe when we drafted Marvin, we had Chillz and Smoove. 

I see the logic of what he was going for but we needed an upgrade at pg. instead he went for his sf.

[Royjr9]

1 hour ago, AHF said:

Bear in mind that Bagley is 6 months older than Collins was as a freshman so comparing freshman year to freshman year has the exact same age gap as Collins sophomore year to MB's freshman year.  Neither is a pure apples to apples.

Nothing is apples to apples of course. Which is why I wouldn’t dismiss him as a prospect. I wish I knew the future but I would bet on bagley long term.

[KB21]

I'm not going to bank on a player developing skills in the NBA that he doesn't currently have, and that's why I would rate Bagley lower than most will.  

[NBASupes]

2 hours ago, AHF said:

Bear in mind that Bagley is 6 months older than Collins was as a freshman so comparing freshman year to freshman year has the exact same age gap as Collins sophomore year to MB's freshman year.  Neither is a pure apples to apples.

He's just much better than Collins. As someone who watched both players consistently, for Collins at Wake and Atlanta, Bagley is the player the Hawks would love if Collins was. Collins is talented. Bagley is uber talented. Just imagine if someone on here said, why to take Doncic, we had Toni Kukoc and that didn't work. Similar players. Truth is, they have similarities but one is CLEARLY not the other as a prospect. 

[AHF]

1 minute ago, NBASupes said:

He's just much better than Collins. As someone who watched both players consistently, for Collins at Wake and Atlanta, Bagley is the player the Hawks would love if Collins was. Collins is talented. Bagley is uber talented. Just imagine if someone on here said, why to take Doncic, we had Toni Kukoc and that didn't work. Similar players. Truth is, they have similarities but one is CLEARLY not the other as a prospect. 

I hear what you are saying.  I'm just saying we almost have to get rid of Collins if we get him.  The defense in particular with those two as your PF/C seems unbuildable.

[NBASupes]

4 minutes ago, AHF said:

I hear what you are saying.  I'm just saying we almost have to get rid of Collins if we get him.  The defense in particular with those two as your PF/C seems unbuildable.

I don't think you get rid of someone on a contract that's as small as Collins. If anything, he because better for us because he can stay in the 6th man role and play both PF and C as the Hawks like to use him anyway. But I know what you mean, he can be good, why draft someone who while he can be great, it's not a fact that it will happen. 

 

It's simple because if he's great, nothing else will matter anyway. You don't pass on potential greatness for fit of someone who's not even that good anyway. Would you pass on Michael Jordan or Tim Duncan because you have a young Joe Johnson or Al Horford?

[KB21]

Marvin Bagley is closer to Julius Randle than Julius Erving.  

[NBASupes]

31 minutes ago, KB21 said:

Marvin Bagley is closer to Julius Randle than Julius Erving.  

He's superior to Julius Randle as a prospect. Why mention Dr. J?  Randle is a similar prospect to Collins but in a much weaker draft than Collins was in last year. Bagley is a freak prospect. No comparison. 

[Diesel]

7 hours ago, NBASupes said:

Everything you literally said was wrong. Even this point wasn't no fact. We had to so a SnT where we traded Diaw and a future first just to get Joe. PHX could have said no and just matched him like they were planning on doing. That 1st could have been a #4 pick but it happened to be 3rd where are protection was. 

Supes,  what you say here and what KB said are 2 different things.   KB is right in saying that if we had a gameplan to go after Joe, then we would have never picked Marvin.    Period.  Whether we had to ante up more for Joe is irrelevant.   Had we known that going after him was our priority, then we would not have gone after Marvin. ... IF FIT was our motive. 

[Diesel]

4 hours ago, NBASupes said:

He's superior to Julius Randle as a prospect. Why mention Dr. J?  Randle is a similar prospect to Collins but in a much weaker draft than Collins was in last year. Bagley is a freak prospect. No comparison. 

Marvin is superior no comparison?

Sorry... Marvin and Collins are a strong match.  Marvin's defense sucks.  Collins defense sucks.   Marvin's offense is really good; collins offense is really good.  There's your comparison.  To be totally honestly, Collins had a lot less talent around him at Wake than Marvin has a Duke.  A lot of Duke's talent, hides Marvin's weaknesses. 

 

[NBASupes]

1 hour ago, Diesel said:

Marvin is superior no comparison?

Sorry... Marvin and Collins are a strong match.  Marvin's defense sucks.  Collins defense sucks.   Marvin's offense is really good; collins offense is really good.  There's your comparison.  To be totally honestly, Collins had a lot less talent around him at Wake than Marvin has a Duke.  A lot of Duke's talent, hides Marvin's weaknesses. 

 

I actually watch all Duke games. We don't hide Marvin at all. We put him defensively in space. We make sure he is moving the most on offense and defense. He is the only one that required to switch for all defenders, to the PG or Center. 

 

We haven't done this with any other Blue Devil to date. Not Christian, not Grant, not Duantay, no one but Bagley. 

The Hawks never put Collins in space on defense nor did Wake.

No one ever gave the ball the Collins and said go and create. At Wake or The NBA. Collins gets the ball off PnR, in college, more so the low post but hes not as good at it at the NBA, so he gets a lot of points off of being scrappy and positioning on offense. Bagley can beat you off of the elbow, perimeter, back to the basket with his elite quickness, and get the scrappy and PnR points Collins gets as well. There are not the same. One is elite on offense as a prospect. The other shows 18/10 potential. The gap between 28/13 and versatile defense is a mile from what Collins does and that's not no shade to Collins but it's not the same.

 

Marvin's defense doesn't suck. He just more of a perimeter defender and at Duke, like Tatum last year, we give him a lot of defensive responsibility, maybe more than he could handle as a freshman.

[KB21]

LOL at Marvin Bagley being a versatile defender.  He's a complete non-defender.  He's easily the worst defensive prospect that will be drafted in the top 10 this year.

[Diesel]

6 hours ago, NBASupes said:

I actually watch all Duke games. We don't hide Marvin at all. We put him defensively in space. We make sure he is moving the most on offense and defense. He is the only one that required to switch for all defenders, to the PG or Center. 

 

We haven't done this with any other Blue Devil to date. Not Christian, not Grant, not Duantay, no one but Bagley. 

The Hawks never put Collins in space on defense nor did Wake.

No one ever gave the ball the Collins and said go and create. At Wake or The NBA. Collins gets the ball off PnR, in college, more so the low post but hes not as good at it at the NBA, so he gets a lot of points off of being scrappy and positioning on offense. Bagley can beat you off of the elbow, perimeter, back to the basket with his elite quickness, and get the scrappy and PnR points Collins gets as well. There are not the same. One is elite on offense as a prospect. The other shows 18/10 potential. The gap between 28/13 and versatile defense is a mile from what Collins does and that's not no shade to Collins but it's not the same.

 

Marvin's defense doesn't suck. He just more of a perimeter defender and at Duke, like Tatum last year, we give him a lot of defensive responsibility, maybe more than he could handle as a freshman.

To put somebody in space and run him from man to man doesn't mean that you're not hiding his weakness.  His weakness mainly is matching players his own size.  You know... like Horford.   Guys his size make a meal out of him because he's not strong enough to stop them.   Doral Moore for instance.  A guy who averages about 11 ppg put up 18 pts while MBIII was covering him on a 9-9 effort with most of his points being either dunks or putbacks off the offensive glass. 

 

 

[DS5]

5 hours ago, KB21 said:

LOL at Marvin Bagley being a versatile defender.  He's a complete non-defender.  He's easily the worst defensive prospect that will be drafted in the top 10 this year.

I thought Ayton was the worst defender in the lottery?

[KB21]

4 minutes ago, DS5 said:

I thought Ayton was the worst defender in the lottery?

2nd worst