The Tank Thread

[AHF]

6 minutes ago, KB21 said:

Sacramento....the team that has been drafting in the lottery for 12 years now.

And rebuilding the wrong way - just like Orlando.  There is no strategy that works when paired with incompetence and both of those teams have blended tanking and trying to win in a spectacularly terrible fashion.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

1 hour ago, AHF said:

We are now tied 5th place in the tank race.  That is epically worse than just yesterday.  Could fall as low as the 9th pick in the draft from there (lose coin flip with tie, get jumped in lottery).

No more :&:$-ups Hawks.  Do what you need to do and take a fine if you have to.  Would be well worth it.  (Odds are super low of getting fined).

Call Tonya Harding's goon to take out Dennis knee.   Not to make light of this too much, because this was easily one of the most (( bleeped )) up moments in sports.

And then 20 years later, Tonya Harding is actually celebrated, and has a movie made about her.

 

 

Edited March 1, 2018 by TheNorthCydeRises

[KB21]

2 minutes ago, AHF said:

And rebuilding the wrong way - just like Orlando.  There is no strategy that works when paired with incompetence and both of those teams have blended tanking and trying to win in a spectacularly terrible fashion.

Of course.  I knew a pro tanker would try to change the variables when you point out teams who stay in the lottery.  All tanking teams stay in the lottery for years.  

[AHF]

25 minutes ago, KB21 said:

Of course.  I knew a pro tanker would try to change the variables when you point out teams who stay in the lottery.  All tanking teams stay in the lottery for years.  

They haven't tanked all the time during that period.  

[KB21]

Just now, AHF said:

They haven't tanked all the time during that period.  

But because they tanked some of the time, they are doomed to their current fate.  This is the fate that awaits the Hawks for you pro tankers.  This is what you want the Hawks to become.

[CBAreject]

9 minutes ago, KB21 said:

But because they tanked some of the time, they are doomed to their current fate.  This is the fate that awaits the Hawks for you pro tankers.  This is what you want the Hawks to become.

How did we ever win 47 games just 4 years after we won 13 games in 2005?  And with Billy Knight drafting MW and Shellhead with those picks!

[davis171]

14 minutes ago, KB21 said:

But because they tanked some of the time, they are doomed to their current fate.  This is the fate that awaits the Hawks for you pro tankers.  This is what you want the Hawks to become.

The kings drafted 2 centers with Cousins on the roster he literally tweeted "lord help me" after they drafted Stein and they signed vets like Rondo, Darren Collison, Zach Randolph, George Hill, etc that won them enough to ruin the rebuild. 

Edited March 1, 2018 by davis171

[AHF]

30 minutes ago, KB21 said:

This is what you want the Hawks to become.

Sometimes you are so wedded to your own narrative that you lose perspective.  Nobody wants this team to do anything other than position itself to win championships.  That goes for you, me, D, lw3, pshr, CBA, davis, NorthCyde, Mace, etc. etc.

Just to be clear:  I want them to be like Golden State (pull enough stars from the draft to build a championship core and add a few FA pieces), OKC (hit huge on some draft picks to get to the NBA finals - but hopefully make the right call on which ones to keep and which ones to trade if it comes to that), Cleveland (draft enough assets to make yourself attractive to a superstar), the Spurs (get yourself a combo of #1, #1, #3 and start winning rings), the Bulls (hit big and #3 + #5 and use other lottery picks to get good complimentary players and win big), Dallas (get yourself a superstar in the draft and build around him until you hit the right combo to make a couple of finals appearances and win a ring), Miami (draft a superstar and add other studs by trade for lottery assets [Shaq] or through FA with smart cap management combined with your lure of a stud), the Celtics (draft your finals MVP and then leverage draft assets to add other studs in their prime to stack a championship roster), etc.

I want them to gather assets in the draft, hit on them and/or leverage them, and be smart and opportunistic in adding people by FA or trade once we have good enough talent to attract other studs.  You may think the lottery is a doomed path despite the number of championships teams that were in the lottery as they built their core but you can't argue that what people "want" is for the Hawks to become an example of incompetent management through bad drafting, bad FA moves, bad trades and waffling back and forth between tanking and trying (prematurely) to contend.

[KB21]

31 minutes ago, davis171 said:

The kings drafted 2 centers with Cousins on the roster he literally tweeted "lord help me" after they drafted Stein and they signed vets like Rondo, Darren Collison, Zach Randolph, George Hill, etc that won them enough to ruin the rebuild. 

You know who else drafted multiple centers?

Philadelphia, who you guys love to praise for some reason and use as an example of how tanking works (when they are actually the poster child for why tanking DOESN'T work.)

[davis171]

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/22605642/nba-commissioner-adam-silver-sends-memo-saying-tanking-teams-punished Don't listen hawks please!

[CBAreject]

Quote

"We have been careful to distinguish between efforts teams may make to rebuild their rosters, including through personnel changes over the course of several seasons, and circumstances in which players or coaches on the floor take steps to lose games," Silver wrote in the memo, obtained by USA Today Sports.

"The former can be a legitimate strategy to construct a successful team within the confines of league rules; the latter -- which we have not found and hope never to see in the NBA -- has no place in our game. If we ever received evidence that players or coaches were attempting to lose or otherwise taking steps to cause any game to result otherwise than on its competitive merits, that conduct would be met with the swiftest and harshest response possible from the league office."

 

Yeah, but this is how tanking actually works—administratively.  Players on they floor are playing for contracts and for pride.  They probably won’t even be on the roster when the benefits of tanking come.  They may even be tanking to draft a player that replaces them.  

The only way to get players to cooperate would be to pay them, but if that happened, just one leaker would expose it as a monstrous scandal that would destroy a team for years.  

Cuban shouldn’t have said what he did, but it was a totally self-evident comment.  For an 18-40 team, there is nothing to be gained from getting hot and finishing with 28 wins.  It is in the organizations’ best interests to lose.   That is totally different from saying that the players/coaches should throw games.  Based on last night’s hard fought game against one of the league’s best teams, Mavs players are playing to win.  

[MaceCase]

1 hour ago, KB21 said:

You know who else drafted multiple centers?

Philadelphia, who you guys love to praise for some reason and use as an example of how tanking works (when they are actually the poster child for why tanking DOESN'T work.)

Cousins was already an All Star and All NBA player when the Kings decided to select Cauley-Stein and followed that up a year later by trading back from 8th to select Papagiannis (whom they cut after only 1 full season) and Labissiere.  Clearly there is a difference between that and the Sixers whom drafted their Centers when neither had established themselves as NBA players. 

[KB21]

5 minutes ago, MaceCase said:

Cousins was already an All Star and All NBA player when the Kings decided to select Cauley-Stein and followed that up a year later by trading back from 8th to select Papagiannis (whom they cut after only 1 full season) and Labissiere.  Clearly there is a difference between that and the Sixers whom drafted their Centers when neither had established themselves as NBA players. 

So, this excuses how the 76ers missed on 3 of the 5 top 5 draft picks they have had during their tank?

[davis171]

1 minute ago, KB21 said:

So, this excuses how the 76ers missed on 3 of the 5 top 5 draft picks they have had during their tank?

If they win a title I doubt their fan base will give a crap about the path there.

[KB21]

4 minutes ago, davis171 said:

If they win a title I doubt their fan base will give a crap about the path there.

It's really too bad that they will never win a title.

[davis171]

Just now, KB21 said:

It's really too bad that they will never win a title.

How do you know that when their 2 best players are 23 and under and they have the lakers pick this year? I guess @KB21 is from the future!

[MaceCase]

1 minute ago, KB21 said:

So, this excuses how the 76ers missed on 3 of the 5 top 5 draft picks they have had during their tank?

..... Man you really jump from place to place.  So you get proven wrong on the Kings and now you want to go in on the Sixers. 

First of all, they missed on only 2 picks so far, Fultz is TBD due to his injury and given how well 2/3 of the Sixers picks returned after their redshirt seasons I'd hold off on discounting him. 

Secondly, 2 of those Sixers players are already All Star caliber and the team as a whole are already in the midst of a playoff run.  The Sixers are the big FU to all of your bluster about tanking not working.  Every pro-tanker has stated that simply being in the lotto does not guarantee selecting a star yet the Sixers have managed to hit on both a 50% rate on their picks and return to the playoffs on the backs of the players they hit on.

[KB21]

14 minutes ago, MaceCase said:

..... Man you really jump from place to place.  So you get proven wrong on the Kings and now you want to go in on the Sixers. 

First of all, they missed on only 2 picks so far, Fultz is TBD due to his injury and given how well 2/3 of the Sixers picks returned after their redshirt seasons I'd hold off on discounting him. 

Secondly, 2 of those Sixers players are already All Star caliber and the team as a whole are already in the midst of a playoff run.  The Sixers are the big FU to all of your bluster about tanking not working.  Every pro-tanker has stated that simply being in the lotto does not guarantee selecting a star yet the Sixers have managed to hit on both a 50% rate on their picks and return to the playoffs on the backs of the players they hit on.

When did I get proven wrong on the Kings?  I haven't seen it.  I'm also right on the 76ers.  

[davis171]

6 minutes ago, KB21 said:

When did I get proven wrong on the Kings?  I haven't seen it.  I'm also right on the 76ers.  

Right about what? The Kings signed Vets to try and win to early so the rebuild backfired. The 76ers have one of the most talented young rosters in the entire NBA and will have a top 10 pick!

[MaceCase]

11 minutes ago, KB21 said:

When did I get proven wrong on the Kings?  I haven't seen it.  I'm also right on the 76ers.  

I suggest you throw on a pair of reading glasses, perhap unglue the Henry Abbott articles from the tip of your nose and re-read the past page.  The Kings hit on a pick and proceeded to either trade other picks, wasted other picks duplicating the position of the pick they already successfully hit on, and threw out high dollar deals and cap to past their prime vets.  To top that off they traded the one player they successfully hit on for the worst package for any star traded in the past 14 months.

The Kings are a prime example of everything a team in the lottery can do wrong.  Tell me, do you use the Brooklyn Nets as the prime example of everything a team should do to stay in the playoffs?