The Tank Thread

[Buzzard]

3 minutes ago, davis171 said:

I like Doncic's floor over Ayton's. I like Ayton but this is a crucial draft to get a player that can produce and run a team and Doncic has been running Real Madrid who has had a couple former NBA players on it. That being said I will not be unhappy at all if we walk away with Ayton.

I think Ayton is a lock; and with his physical tools has an upside that could make him one of the best scorers in the NBA. I am talking potential NBA MVP numbers. I think Doncic is going to be good but think his upside is lower.

[KB21]

Ayton is the least likely to actually reach his upside because he is such a bad defender.

[davis171]

5 minutes ago, Buzzard said:

I think Ayton is a lock; and with his physical tools has an upside that could make him one of the best scorers in the NBA. I am talking potential NBA MVP numbers. I think Doncic is going to be good but think his upside is lower.

His defensive numbers are bad and I think Luka can be the best euro non big ever. A lot will be said if he comes over for the combine but he looked really good against a lot of NBA talent in EuroBasket. He is scoring over guys like Kristaps in several of the highlights. I also value perimeter play> post play in Bud's offense fwiw.

Edited March 2, 2018 by davis171

[Buzzard]

8 minutes ago, KB21 said:

Ayton is the least likely to actually reach his upside because he is such a bad defender.

I think it is the other way around. None of the projected top five play good defense; but Ayton has the best physicals to learn how to become a good defender. Doncic will have to learn the Kyle Korver way of playing D.

Porter Jr. might have been projected as the best defender; but I would not take him at #1 or 2. I may pass on him until #6 to 10 to be honest.

Edited March 2, 2018 by Buzzard

[davis171]

2 minutes ago, Buzzard said:

I think it is the other way around. None of the projected top five play good defense; but Ayton has the best physicals to learn how to become a good defender. Doncic will have to learn the Kyle Korver way of playing D. Porter Jr. might have been projected as the best defender; but I would not take him at #1 or 2. I may pass on him until #6 to be honest.

Please don't compare Doncic's athleticism to Korver ever again. Doncic is at least the athlete Gordon Hayward is maybe a little more in my eyes. I doubt you have watched much of him if you believe that. the guy is 6'8" 230 pushing the ball with pace with a couple former AMERICAN NBA players on his team.

Edited March 2, 2018 by davis171

[Buzzard]

Just now, davis171 said:

Please don't compare Doncic's athleticism to Korver ever again. Doncic is at least the athlete Gordon Hayward is maybe a little more in my eyes. I doubt you have watched much of him if you believe that.

Defenselessly he is a lot like Korver. Just reaches and whiffs when it comes to physical D. I have watched enough to have seen that. Here is your challenge since you think he plays better D than Korver; go find some tape of it lol.

[KB21]

Here's the thing with Ayton.  Part of his upside is his potential as a rim protector.  However, this is an aspect of his game where he has shown very little instincts.  How many players have you seen that is as bad defensively as he is who have actually gone on to become great defenders in the NBA?  People love to say he can be another KAT or Embiid, but both of those guys were far better defenders in college than Ayton is.

Maybe he gets there.  I think he's a 3-5 year project, and the most likely outcome is that you are going to be more disappointed that he didn't reach his ceiling than you are going to be excited about his actual play.  For Braves fans, think Jason Heyward, who had a damn boatload of potential but never realized it.

[davis171]

8 minutes ago, Buzzard said:

Defenselessly he is a lot like Korver. Just reaches and whiffs when it comes to physical D. I have watched enough to have seen that. Here is your challenge since you think he plays better D than Korver; go find some tape of it lol.

I'm not saying he is lock down I'm saying he can at least be Gordon Hayward he is top 10 in steals right now in the EuroLeague so thats not bad imo at 18.

Edited March 2, 2018 by davis171

[Buzzard]

Just now, davis171 said:

I'm not saying he is lock down I'm saying he can at least be Gordon Hayward he is top 10 in steals right now in the EuroLeague so thats not bad imo.

I like Doncic a lot and had him ahead of Ayton 10 or so games into the college season. But Ayton is balling now and I cannot ignore that. I think Ayton is a potential MVP type scorer who is just 19 and 7'1",  250Lbs.  He also hits his free throws which makes him a vital player in crunch time.

Who ever gets Ayton is getting the best big in the draft; and there is a lot of bigs in this draft. Doncic's value comes as he is easily the highest rated shooting guard in a very weak rated class of shooting guards.

Four months away and this is how I see it right now. #1 Ayton, #2 Doncic

 

 

[davis171]

13 minutes ago, Buzzard said:

I like Doncic a lot and had him ahead of Ayton 10 or so games into the college season. But Ayton is balling now and I cannot ignore that. I think Ayton is a potential MVP type scorer who is just 19 and 7'1",  250Lbs.  He also hits his free throws which makes him a vital player in crunch time.

Who ever gets Ayton is getting the best big in the draft; and there is a lot of bigs in this draft. Doncic's value comes as he is easily the highest rated shooting guard in a very weak rated class of shooting guards.

Four months away and this is how I see it right now. #1 Ayton, #2 Doncic

 

 

That is another thing I love the thought of pairing up Jontay Porter (shoots 35% from 3 at 6'11)with Collins. With Doncic running the point we would be so long and I think Porter would fit well with Buds ideal big and he is still a baby (Graduated high school early). I like Porter better than any wing or guard we could get in the 20s. 5 of Schröder/Doncic, Doncic/Bazemore, Prince, Collins, Porter probably wouldn't win a lot because so young but I bet fun to watch I'd go watch.

Edited March 2, 2018 by davis171

[AHF]

I still want to know how a real GM builds a champion from our roster coming out of last year (for anyone other than @KB21 you can modify this based on your own desire to keep THJr or ditch Moose, etc.):

On 2/27/2018 at 2:59 PM, AHF said:

Here is your roster as you start to look at trades - you are presently over the cap.

 

Roster Spots		Salary
1	Dwight Howard	$23,500,000
2	Paul Millsap	$31,269,231
3	Kent Bazemore	$16,910,113
4	Ersan Ilyasova	$6,000,000
5	John Collins	$1,936,920
6	Tyler Dorsey	$815,615
7	Dennis Schröder	$15,500,000
8	Malcolm Delaney	$2,500,000
9	Taurean Waller-Prince	$2,422,560
10	DeAndre' Bembry	$1,567,200
11	Mike Muscala	$5,000,000
12
13
14
15
	Total:	$107,421,639

 

What is the hypothetical next move?

[CBAreject]

Flip Bembry and Bazemore for The Brow IMO

[KB21]

55 minutes ago, AHF said:

I still want to know how a real GM builds a champion from our roster coming out of last year (for anyone other than @KB21 you can modify this based on your own desire to keep THJr or ditch Moose, etc.):

OK.  I'll play along.

First, if the Dwight deal isn't made, we are picking 31st and not 41st.  So, I wouldn't have Tyler Dorsey.  I would have drafted Jordan Bell with that pick.  

Second, I would have resigned Thabo and at some point try to package Taurean Prince and pick(s) for Jae Crowder.  

Third, I would then fill out the rest of the roster with veteran minimum players

 

[davis171]

5 minutes ago, KB21 said:

OK.  I'll play along.

First, if the Dwight deal isn't made, we are picking 31st and not 41st.  So, I wouldn't have Tyler Dorsey.  I would have drafted Jordan Bell with that pick.  

Second, I would have resigned Thabo and at some point try to package Taurean Prince and pick(s) for Jae Crowder.  

Third, I would then fill out the rest of the roster with veteran minimum players

 

Trading away your few assets for Jay Crowder who moped in Cleveland and Jordan Bell and Thabo back our the saviors lmao. So Schröder/Delaney, Baze/Thabo, Crowder/Thabo, Sap/Collins, Dwight/Bell that wins how many games I think we are worse than the year before with Sap a year older and no Korver for the whole season while paying significantly more.

[Vol4ever]

2 hours ago, KB21 said:

Ayton is the least likely to actually reach his upside because he is such a bad defender.

I agree but they dont play any defense in the NBA.   LOL

[AHF]

36 minutes ago, KB21 said:

OK.  I'll play along.

First, if the Dwight deal isn't made, we are picking 31st and not 41st.  So, I wouldn't have Tyler Dorsey.  I would have drafted Jordan Bell with that pick.  

Second, I would have resigned Thabo and at some point try to package Taurean Prince and pick(s) for Jae Crowder.  

Third, I would then fill out the rest of the roster with veteran minimum players

 

The draft brings up an interesting question.  You said right before the draft last year that the Hawks should take Bell but at #19.  That would mean no Collins. 

On 6/14/2017 at 9:50 AM, KB21 said:

This guy excites me!!

Bell dunks it for 2 on one end and then blocks the shot in transition on the other!

 

People won't buy into it, but if there is something to his jump shot and shot creation ability that wasn't really seen/used at Oregon, then this guy will be a star level player in the NBA.  He's that type of athlete and defender.  If the shot isn't there, he's still a strong starting level role player. 

Take him at 19.

I want to get my hands on the video of Oregon vs Baylor from this past year, because the Bell/Motley match up had to be extremely fun to watch.

Who would your alternative pick then be at #31?

 

You can't trade for Jae Crowder for Prince and picks because you don't have room to fit that salary onto the roster.  For your future trades, list the picks please.  Not sure if you are talking about our first round pick this year or a 2025 2nd round pick.

Any ideas on the vet minimum players who would have chosen our team over other teams?  

 

Here is your new roster:

Roster Spots		Salary
1	Dwight Howard	$23,500,000
2	Paul Millsap	$31,269,231
3	Kent Bazemore	$16,910,113
4	Ersan Ilyasova	$6,000,000
5	Jordan Bell	$1,936,920
6	#31 Pick	$815,615
7	Dennis Schröder	$15,500,000
8	Malcolm Delaney	$2,500,000
9	Taurean Waller-Prince	$2,422,560
10	DeAndre' Bembry	$1,567,200
11	Mike Muscala	$5,000,000
12	Thabo Sephalosha	$5,250,000
13
14
15
	Total:	$112,671,639

[Blunt91]

There is a poll on Realgm that ask which team will end up with the worst record.  They have the Hawks as overall worst followed by the suns.  Those people haven't watched enough of the Hawks to know that we still play hard( not every game).  The Suns or Grizzlies will have the worst record IMO.  The hawks may get the #1 overall via the lottery but not because of there record.

[AHF]

3 minutes ago, Blunt91 said:

There is a poll on Realgm that ask which team will end up with the worst record.  They have the Hawks as overall worst followed by the suns.  Those people haven't watched enough of the Hawks to know that we still play hard( not every game).  The Suns or Grizzlies will have the worst record IMO.  The hawks may get the #1 overall via the lottery but not because of there record.

Here are the point differential which are fairly predictive on record (at least under normal circumstances):

PHX -8.6

SAC -8.0

CHI -6.3

ORL -4.6

ATL -4.6

MEM -4.6

NJ -4.1

LAL -2.7

DAL -2.6

[CBAreject]

1 hour ago, AHF said:

Here are the point differential which are fairly predictive on record (at least under normal circumstances):

PHX -8.6

SAC -8.0

CHI -6.3

ORL -4.6

ATL -4.6

MEM -4.6

NJ -4.1

LAL -2.7

DAL -2.6

The truly remarkable thing is that Dallas has had the worst record in the league as late as 60 games into the season.  They would be a 35 win team some years with this roster.  

[Peoriabird]

4 hours ago, AHF said:

The draft brings up an interesting question.  You said right before the draft last year that the Hawks should take Bell but at #19.  That would mean no Collins. 

Who would your alternative pick then be at #31?

 

You can't trade for Jae Crowder for Prince and picks because you don't have room to fit that salary onto the roster.  For your future trades, list the picks please.  Not sure if you are talking about our first round pick this year or a 2025 2nd round pick.

Any ideas on the vet minimum players who would have chosen our team over other teams?  

 

Here is your new roster:

Roster Spots		Salary
1	Dwight Howard	$23,500,000
2	Paul Millsap	$31,269,231
3	Kent Bazemore	$16,910,113
4	Ersan Ilyasova	$6,000,000
5	Jordan Bell	$1,936,920
6	#31 Pick	$815,615
7	Dennis Schröder	$15,500,000
8	Malcolm Delaney	$2,500,000
9	Taurean Waller-Prince	$2,422,560
10	DeAndre' Bembry	$1,567,200
11	Mike Muscala	$5,000,000
12	Thabo Sephalosha	$5,250,000
13
14
15
	Total:	$112,671,639