The Tank Thread

[Royjr9]

8 minutes ago, Lurker said:

Closing the book on Fultz after one season, since there was a problem with his shooting being tinkered with after summer league is absolutely comical. One year never tells your tale on anything.

I'll stand by my thought on Ayton too. Downside is he's a rotational big where his defense keeps him from ever starting on better teams but he's a real asset because of his inside scoring and rebounding as a 6th/7th man, upside is he gets with a team that has a good developmental system and a coach that can really push him and he really becomes something. I fear for him if he goes to especially a Phoenix...

Wins are 3rd in how important they truly are, coaching and development matter more.

Actually Phoenix would be ideal. Chandler while a shell of his former self would be a great defensive mentor for him. For some reason Len never looked like much At all of a future nba player but I contend he shouldn’t have been draft anyways especially as high as he went.

[KB21]

1 minute ago, Royjr9 said:

Actually Phoenix would be ideal. Chandler while a shell of his former self would be a great defensive mentor for him. For some reason Len never looked like much At all of a future nba player but I contend he shouldn’t have been draft anyways especially as high as he went.

Phoenix doesn't even have a system. 

[High5]

19 hours ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

He wanted to bottom out the Hawks . . . period.   You have to make salaries close to match in this league, in order to make trades.  It's not like we could trade Dwight and get a few draft picks, because the other team would have to send back a significant salaried player, or a few of them, in order to make the deal work.

Yes, that's how it works. We needed to take on an undesirable asset to get rid of our undesirable asset. Charlotte was willing to overpay for the next two seasons to get rid of Plumlee and hopefully make the playoffs. Schlenk was willing to take on the extra year of Plumlee to become more flexible and remove someone who would lose their mind on a tanking team. I can't explain the pick swap, but at least Dorsey has shown some flashes. 

So, yes, Schlenk was fine if the team became worse as a result of trading Dwight, but that was not the main objective. And he certainly wasn't turning down better/less toxic offers to achieve that. 

Now whether or not it was a worthwhile trade remains to be seen. Schlenk should have an extra ~$11 million to work with next season. Hopefully he can generate more value from that than the third year of Plumlee hurts us. 

[Lurker]

24 minutes ago, DBac said:

One hope I do hold out for Ayton is Markkanen was supposed to be even worse on defense and he's been passable in the NBA. So perhaps it's an Arizona thing. Just worry about the future of the league being guys like Simmons and Giannis when your rim protector is not great at it.

They've been playing two centers, so often, Ayton has been defending on the perimeter which isn't ideal. The other center they're playing might be even worse on defense.

There is some real issue there and a team that doesn't have good development or coaching, even if they have a potentially good mentor, isn't very ideal for him. His floor sure as heck isn't Okafor though, it's more like Kanter, as I've explained. Either way, at the very least, he has a floor of a key rotation big.

[KB21]

5 minutes ago, Lurker said:

They've been playing two centers, so often, Ayton has been defending on the perimeter which isn't ideal. The other center they're playing might be even worse on defense.

There is some real issue there and a team that doesn't have good development or coaching, even if they have a potentially good mentor, isn't very ideal for him. His floor sure as heck isn't Okafor though, it's more like Kanter, as I've explained. Either way, at the very least, he has a floor of a key rotation big.

The difference between Kanter and Okafor is the difference between a rotational guy who is overpaid because of where he was drafted and a complete bust, but that is neither here nor there.  Either way, that outcome is not what you want out of a top 5 pick, IMO.  

[davis171]

24 minutes ago, KB21 said:

The difference between Kanter and Okafor is the difference between a rotational guy who is overpaid because of where he was drafted and a complete bust, but that is neither here nor there.  Either way, that outcome is not what you want out of a top 5 pick, IMO.  

Dude you are a genius why aren't you in an NBA front office somewhere!

[KB21]

4 minutes ago, davis171 said:

Dude you are a genius why aren't you in an NBA front office somewhere!

I make more money as a doctor.

[DBac]

1 hour ago, Lurker said:

They've been playing two centers, so often, Ayton has been defending on the perimeter which isn't ideal. The other center they're playing might be even worse on defense.

There is some real issue there and a team that doesn't have good development or coaching, even if they have a potentially good mentor, isn't very ideal for him. His floor sure as heck isn't Okafor though, it's more like Kanter, as I've explained. Either way, at the very least, he has a floor of a key rotation big.

Okafor doesn't have his tools or athleticism so yeah I can't see him being that bad even if they had the same defensive instincts.

[Royjr9]

2 hours ago, KB21 said:

Phoenix doesn't even have a system. 

They have a system. It’s call accumulatingas much talent around booker. It wouldn’t surprise me if they are 10 games better next year when not actively tanking.  Next you’ll go on about Jackson being a bust when the kid is really coming along this year.  

[KB21]

1 hour ago, Royjr9 said:

They have a system. It’s call accumulatingas much talent around booker. It wouldn’t surprise me if they are 10 games better next year when not actively tanking.  Next you’ll go on about Jackson being a bust when the kid is really coming along this year.  

He's definitely not good, but I knew that would be the case before he was drafted.  Phoenix isn't going to win anything, because they have no winning players on their roster.  Booker is good, not great (too poor defensively to be great, but he's better than Wiggins, who sucks), but they have nothing else around him.  If Booker is your best player, you aren't going to be winning many games.  

[MaceCase]

6 hours ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

Cool.

I'll make it easy for you.

Who do you think the Hawks can realistically get?

http://hoopshype.com/2018/02/13/nba-free-agency-2018-the-top-players/

Cute.

Create a straw man for yourself to attack when you're in a far weaker position to defend it for yourself.

I'll play along though. 

The tax avoidant Nuggets, thanks to a lackluster season following signing Paul Millsap and giving Mason Plumlee and Gary Harris an extension when they traded away Donovan Mitchell, will have to realistically dump Jamal Murray along with one or two of their 37 other highly paid forwards in order to accommodate a new restricted free agent contract for Nikola Jokic.  It's either take on a ~$50 million tax bill lest they want to take the risk of letting Jokic become an unrestricted free agent in 2019. 

Guess what team would be in a position to take advantage of such a conundrum?

 

 

So, chief.  what's your realistic plan had the Hawks held onto last season's team?  Here, I'll make it easy for you:

http://hoopshype.com/2018/02/13/nba-free-agency-2018-the-top-players/

Frankly, I don't care.  I'm not interested in reading Lance Stephenson and Jordan Crawford being the difference for the Hawks.

[davis171]

Andrew Wiggins is 23 please at least let the kid have a 25th birthday before you say he is a terrible player it isn't exactly easy to be starting for a Western confrence playoff team at 23.

[KB21]

9 minutes ago, davis171 said:

Andrew Wiggins is 23 please at least let the kid have a 25th birthday before you say he is a terrible player it isn't exactly easy to be starting for a Western confrence playoff team at 23.

I'm not surprised at the excuses.  You will be making the same excuses when Atlanta's pick from the 2018 draft isn't playing winning basketball 3 years from now.

It's probably time to realize that Wiggins is a volume shooter who scores inefficiently and does nothing else remotely well on the floor.  Four years in the NBA, and he has not improved.

[Lurker]

There's a major problem in America, about how everyone wants immediate gratification NOW.

[DBac]

Great day for the Hawks.

[DBac]

1 hour ago, MaceCase said:

Cute.

Create a straw man for yourself to attack when you're in a far weaker position to defend it for yourself.

I'll play along though. 

The tax avoidant Nuggets, thanks to a lackluster season following signing Paul Millsap and giving Mason Plumlee and Gary Harris an extension when they traded away Donovan Mitchell, will have to realistically dump Jamal Murray along with one or two of their 37 other highly paid forwards in order to accommodate a new restricted free agent contract for Nikola Jokic.  It's either take on a ~$50 million tax bill lest they want to take the risk of letting Jokic become an unrestricted free agent in 2019. 

Guess what team would be in a position to take advantage of such a conundrum?

 

 

So, chief.  what's your realistic plan had the Hawks held onto last season's team?  Here, I'll make it easy for you:

http://hoopshype.com/2018/02/13/nba-free-agency-2018-the-top-players/

Frankly, I don't care.  I'm not interested in reading Lance Stephenson and Jordan Crawford being the difference for the Hawks.

Yo if we pulled off a deal for Jamal Murray to pair along with our draft pick I'd do backflips. I hope this idea comes to fruition.

[KB21]

I know you guys want to lose, so I can see why you want to use cap space on Jamal Murray.  He's a net negative RPM player.

But come on.  Jamal Murray is your big time addition this off season?  If you add Jamal Murray and let's say DeAndre Ayton, this team might win 25 games in 2018-2019.  Might.  

[davis171]

3 minutes ago, KB21 said:

I know you guys want to lose, so I can see why you want to use cap space on Jamal Murray.  He's a net negative RPM player.

But come on.  Jamal Murray is your big time addition this off season?  If you add Jamal Murray and let's say DeAndre Ayton, this team might win 25 games in 2018-2019.  Might.  

That's a bet I'm all about Reddish, Barrett, and Doumbouya, but idk if Schröder, Baze, Prince, Collins, Ayton with Murray, cap space, and draft picks only wins 25 games we may win more than that this year.

[KB21]

16 minutes ago, davis171 said:

That's a bet I'm all about Reddish, Barrett, and Doumbouya, but idk if Schröder, Baze, Prince, Collins, Ayton with Murray, cap space, and draft picks only wins 25 games we may win more than that this year.

Yep.  Let's usher in the next round of underdeveloped 19 year olds who will never be as good as their hype.

[davis171]

10 minutes ago, KB21 said:

Yep.  Let's usher in the next round of underdeveloped 19 year olds who will never be as good as their hype.

You are judging 20-23 yr olds please wait until they are at least 28ish to begin thank you. Gordon hayward had a negative bpm as a rookie don't want him either.

Edited March 12, 2018 by davis171