The Tank Thread

[davis171]

8 minutes ago, KB21 said:

Tell me, which top 5 picks drafted during the one and done era have gone on to lead their team to a NBA Championship AND were the best player on that championship team?

Please tell me a scenario where a team with a non-allstar aged vet center and borderline east allstar PF making over half your cap equaled playoff success? I'm not saying tanking works 100% of the time I'm saying those contracts don't make sense unless that player pushes you over the edge of winning at least a playoff series and I 100% believe that team wouldn't. I wouldn't be opposed to payoffs if it means a flexible cap which doesn't include contracts totaling a third or even a forth of your cap.

Edited March 14, 2018 by davis171

[davis171]

Clearly some of you "Sap-lovers" have Schlenk's phone number or something talking about his plan to rebuild the hawks acting like you got insiders or something lol.

Edited March 14, 2018 by davis171

[KB21]

8 minutes ago, davis171 said:

Please tell me a scenario where a team with a non-allstar aged vet center and borderline east allstar PF making over half your cap equaled playoff success? I'm not saying tanking works 100% of the time I'm saying those contracts don't make sense unless that player pushes you over the edge of winning at least a playoff series and I 100% believe that team wouldn't. I wouldn't be opposed to payoffs if it means a flexible cap which doesn't include contracts totaling a third or even a forth of your cap.

You didn't answer the question.  If bottoming out intentionally to land a top 5 pick is the answer to getting a championship, then surely there are several top 5 picks in the one and done era who have lead their teams to a championship and were the best players on that championship team.  Also, the one and done era is being used, because that is when the draft changed and became more about potential than production, which means you will miss more at the top when drafting based on potential.  

So, you are saying that you shouldn't pay big money to a player that doesn't push you over the edge of winning at least a playoff series.  That means Atlanta probably shouldn't resign who ever they draft in 2018, because by the time they are free agents, they will not have pushed Atlanta over the edge of winning a playoff series.  More than likely, this player will be a free agent BEFORE Atlanta even makes the playoffs again.

[davis171]

5 minutes ago, KB21 said:

You didn't answer the question.  If bottoming out intentionally to land a top 5 pick is the answer to getting a championship, then surely there are several top 5 picks in the one and done era who have lead their teams to a championship and were the best players on that championship team.  Also, the one and done era is being used, because that is when the draft changed and became more about potential than production, which means you will miss more at the top when drafting based on potential.  

So, you are saying that you shouldn't pay big money to a player that doesn't push you over the edge of winning at least a playoff series.  That means Atlanta probably shouldn't resign who ever they draft in 2018, because by the time they are free agents, they will not have pushed Atlanta over the edge of winning a playoff series.  More than likely, this player will be a free agent BEFORE Atlanta even makes the playoffs again.

I'm not saying that at all but at a third of the cap you should push the team into major contention especially at 33 with 0 upside on the team. That would also mean the hawks have the longest playoff drought in the east the longest now is 5 years come on we have been over this. I don't see it as bottoming out the roster I saw it as Sap at 30 million is a negative asset that is an albatross that can't be traded as well as Dwight.

Edited March 14, 2018 by davis171

[KB21]

6 minutes ago, davis171 said:

I'm not saying that at all but at a third of the cap you should push the team into major contention especially at 33 with 0 upside on the team. That would also mean the hawks have the longest playoff drought in the east the longest now is 5 years come on we have been over this. I don't see it as bottoming out the roster I saw it as Sap at 30 million is a negative asset that is an albatross that can't be traded as well as Dwight.

Such an albatross for a two year deal when you aren't going to sign anyone worth a shit in the those two years with all this cap flexibility.  

"Oh,, but we are going to take on contracts to get draft picks with that cap flexibility."  

And?  So that 30th draft pick that will come from Houston this year is going to be worth the $13 million it took to take on Jamal Crawford's contract, only to buy him out?

By resigning Paul, the Hawks would have kept a veteran player that knows how to win and is still a top power forward in the game.  This would have given these young players a veteran leader to look up to and to learn how to win from.  

Now, this team has an expansion level roster that will only be worse next year due to the lack of veterans this team will have and the increase in the number of players with 1 or less years of experience in the league.  

So, even if DeAndre Ayton is a stud, who in the hell is going to teach him how to play winning basketball in the NBA?  There will be no established veterans to speak of that plays his position on this team in 2019.  NONE!  He's going to learn how to win in the NBA from Miles Plumlee?

[Royjr9]

8 hours ago, KB21 said:

LA Lakers - Four straight lottery appearances, three straight #2 overall picks, 0 playoffs.

Lakers trajectory is ever so higher than ours whether they strike in free agency or not. Plus anybody would be lying if they said that there would not be a slump. Kobe was that franchise and with him getting his money and not being exactly a great teammate there was nobody to carry the torch when his body finally broke down. That said. They could be in the hunt next year if they sell off the assets the end collected. The Lakers were trying your middle build idea giving albatross contracts to guys like deng and mozgov hoping to compete. It back fired big time on them because of simply suck or age and injuries.

[davis171]

11 minutes ago, KB21 said:

Such an albatross for a two year deal when you aren't going to sign anyone worth a shit in the those two years with all this cap flexibility.  

"Oh,, but we are going to take on contracts to get draft picks with that cap flexibility."  

And?  So that 30th draft pick that will come from Houston this year is going to be worth the $13 million it took to take on Jamal Crawford's contract, only to buy him out?

By resigning Paul, the Hawks would have kept a veteran player that knows how to win and is still a top power forward in the game.  This would have given these young players a veteran leader to look up to and to learn how to win from.  

Now, this team has an expansion level roster that will only be worse next year due to the lack of veterans this team will have and the increase in the number of players with 1 or less years of experience in the league.  

So, even if DeAndre Ayton is a stud, who in the hell is going to teach him how to play winning basketball in the NBA?  There will be no established veterans to speak of that plays his position on this team in 2019.  NONE!  He's going to learn how to win in the NBA from Miles Plumlee?

I'm so impressed you can project what Schlenk is going to do with the cap space all y'all got insiders I don't I guess.

[Royjr9]

9 hours ago, Diesel said:

If you recall.  Right after our 60 win year, we were cap tight and we had to make a decision on Paul Millsap and DMC.   Then Millsap got an offer from Orlando.   Then DMC got an offer from Toronto.   We talked Millsap into coming back and he did. 

So if you want to talk about our big free agent acquisition, it was Paul Millsap.   Because Ferry messed up on the contracts, we didn't have a way to keep that team in tact... Not to mention enough money to go after other free agents.   The other thing is that we signed Tiago Splitter.   Also after we lost DMC.. all we had was the MLE but Wesley Johnson was interested in being a Hawk at the time.   However, the Clipps put up a better deal than us. 

 

 

So by being a maxed out team how would you have improved. And if Wesley Johnson is our savior good lord. Deng was run down plus didn’t deng already forgo the hawks to go to Miami. The ferry comments didn’t come up till after. But my point stands you weren’t winning nothing with either one of those guys.

[KB21]

11 minutes ago, Royjr9 said:

Lakers trajectory is ever so higher than ours whether they strike in free agency or not. Plus anybody would be lying if they said that there would not be a slump. Kobe was that franchise and with him getting his money and not being exactly a great teammate there was nobody to carry the torch when his body finally broke down. That said. They could be in the hunt next year if they sell off the assets the end collected. The Lakers were trying your middle build idea giving albatross contracts to guys like deng and mozgov hoping to compete. It back fired big time on them because of simply suck or age and injuries.

Their trajectory is this.  If they  don’t add veterans that know how to win in the off season, they still aren’t a playoff team in 2019.  This is their 5th year in this rebuild.  

Nome of the players they have drafted with these lottery picks are special.  

[Royjr9]

41 minutes ago, KB21 said:

Their trajectory is this.  If they  don’t add veterans that know how to win in the off season, they still aren’t a playoff team in 2019.  This is their 5th year in this rebuild.  

Nome of the players they have drafted with these lottery picks are special.  

The only thing you are right on is that they will target some veterans.  Who cares if is year 2 or five they are on a better path than that middle build crap.  Currently 31-36  that’s a lot of hopelessness. They got money  they will be fine as long as they don’t do something foolish. And technically this is only Magic’s 1st -2nd year at the helm can’t really throw that other mess on him as that was a totally different regime.

[Diesel]

6 hours ago, davis171 said:

And we failed miserably time for a reset exactly! All I've seen from you is why nothing works lol. At least we have an idea come up with something to get us closer to a championship genius. 

The reset shouldn't be get rid of all the players and start over.   The reset should have been change the decision makers. 

Back to this idea.   If the only team in basketball history that ever win a championship through tanking (the warriors) tanked to get Harrison Barnes.   Then you can't make me believe that tanking gets you players that lead you to championships.   I have asked the question a few times with no answer.   What makes anybody here believe that we will miss the mediocre treadmill that tanking brings?

 

[Diesel]

6 hours ago, davis171 said:

Please tell me a scenario where a team with a non-allstar aged vet center and borderline east allstar PF making over half your cap equaled playoff success? I'm not saying tanking works 100% of the time I'm saying those contracts don't make sense unless that player pushes you over the edge of winning at least a playoff series and I 100% believe that team wouldn't. I wouldn't be opposed to payoffs if it means a flexible cap which doesn't include contracts totaling a third or even a forth of your cap.

2011 Dallas Mavericks.   Won the championship. 

[Diesel]

5 hours ago, Royjr9 said:

So by being a maxed out team how would you have improved. And if Wesley Johnson is our savior good lord. Deng was run down plus didn’t deng already forgo the hawks to go to Miami. The ferry comments didn’t come up till after. But my point stands you weren’t winning nothing with either one of those guys.

Not the original question that was asked.   However, with a 60 win team in hand, I would not have let Any of my free agents to be not be offered a contract during the year. 

However, after the fact, I would have kept Millsap.  Never picked up Splitter and kept a portion of the cap to be used to go after better free agents.   Finally, when you're winning you have to do the most with your draft picks.  I don't think we have. 

[NBASupes]

For me, the plan is simple. 

Draft Bamba, Ayton, Bagley III. Not as high on players like Jaren Jackson Jr. and I like Doncic but I am not sure he's ideal. His best spot is clearly Memphis unless they get #1 and go with Ayton. 

Package Collins and Dennis to move into the top 12 with the Clippers for Patrick Beverly. Ideally, I want to move up to take Young, Sexton, or Shai-GA. I like Dennis but I think he will be better on a clearly better team switching spots with Milos T at PG. Collins is a Shawn Kemp, Z-Bo, Randle type of player. He can be a future borderline AS and maybe an AS but his style of play really is hard to win/build with or around. LAC has a style that loves PnR Basketball and likes very talented limited players which both of these players are. Atlanta, not so much. We prefer more all around but we need more talent, in general, to go with the all around. 

Edited March 14, 2018 by NBASupes

[Sothron]

8 hours ago, davis171 said:

I'm not saying that at all but at a third of the cap you should push the team into major contention especially at 33 with 0 upside on the team. That would also mean the hawks have the longest playoff drought in the east the longest now is 5 years come on we have been over this. I don't see it as bottoming out the roster I saw it as Sap at 30 million is a negative asset that is an albatross that can't be traded as well as Dwight.

Please allow me to spare you some unwanted aggravation on this site. Put KB21 on ignore and your life will improve immeasurably. He has been an outright troll all season and almost the entire board has him on ignore.

[Peoriabird]

8 hours ago, KB21 said:

Their trajectory is this.  If they  don’t add veterans that know how to win in the off season, they still aren’t a playoff team in 2019.  This is their 5th year in this rebuild.  

Nome of the players they have drafted with these lottery picks are special.  

How did that Paul Millsap and his 30 million dollar salary fare against them last night?  Denver going to make the playoffs??

[AHF]

10 hours ago, Diesel said:

if it wasn't for THJr, we probably would have traded Oubre Jr. for a bag of Diggem Smacks.   Look at our trackrecord.

Larkin.. Traded. 

Bebe... Traded. 

Moose... Traded. 

We are not about developing draft picks. 

 

When you stop being about developing draft picks you might as well pack it in.  Spurs never stopped.

[AHF]

9 hours ago, KB21 said:

Tell me, which top 5 picks drafted during the one and done era have gone on to lead their team to a NBA Championship AND were the best player on that championship team?

Miami drafted Dwayne Wade in the top 5 and then traded lottery assets for Shaq.  Wade was Finals MVP and they won a ring.  Wade was an All-NBA talent and attractive enough cornerstone that Bosh and LeBron went to join him rather than going elsewhere.  More rings followed.  Without those lottery picks, none of that is possible.  No Wade, no Shaq, no LeBron, no rings....

[NBASupes]

26 minutes ago, AHF said:

Miami drafted Dwayne Wade in the top 5 and then traded lottery assets for Shaq.  Wade was Finals MVP and they won a ring.  Wade was an All-NBA talent and attractive enough cornerstone that Bosh and LeBron went to join him rather than going elsewhere.  More rings followed.  Without those lottery picks, none of that is possible.  No Wade, no Shaq, no LeBron, no rings....

This. 

[KB21]

57 minutes ago, AHF said:

Miami drafted Dwayne Wade in the top 5 and then traded lottery assets for Shaq.  Wade was Finals MVP and they won a ring.  Wade was an All-NBA talent and attractive enough cornerstone that Bosh and LeBron went to join him rather than going elsewhere.  More rings followed.  Without those lottery picks, none of that is possible.  No Wade, no Shaq, no LeBron, no rings....

So, out of all these years and top 5 picks, you have come up with one example that wasn’t even in the one and done era.  And Wade wasn’t the best player on any of those championship teams.