The John Collins suspension (and other thoughts)

[macdaddy]

30 minutes ago, KB21 said:

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/you-dont-need-the-nba-draft-for-talent-just-ask-the-raptors/

Ugh.  The Raptors had 3 top ten lottery picks in the last ten years.  Derozan, JV, and Ross, who they flipped for Kawhi, Gasol, Ilbaka.   So tell me again how you don't need lottery picks to win a championship?

[KB21]

9 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

Ugh.  The Raptors had 3 top ten lottery picks in the last ten years.  Derozan, JV, and Ross, who they flipped for Kawhi, Gasol, Ilbaka.   So tell me again how you don't need lottery picks to win a championship?

Show me when Toronto had an extended stay in the lottery and where that was responsible for building their championship team.

[terrell]

The Hawks have chosen their path. There's no going back. No need to argue..lf we look like shit next season. after adding some better vets, the rebuild is a failure, and KB was right.... If we're in the Playoffs next year, and competing the year after, its a success, and KB was wrong..lol

[AHF]

1 hour ago, KB21 said:

Show me when Toronto had an extended stay in the lottery and where that was responsible for building their championship team.

They didn't.  But they would never have contended if they didn't have their lottery picks to flip.  The only reason they won was because of Kawhi Leonard. The only reason they had him is because they finished with the 3rd worst record in the East and got a lottery pick to develop and trade.

They are no longer contenders now that he is gone.

[KB21]

8 minutes ago, AHF said:

They didn't.  But they would never have contended if they didn't have their lottery picks to flip.  The only reason they won was because of Kawhi Leonard. The only reason they had him is because they finished with the 3rd worst record in the East and got a lottery pick to develop and trade.

They are no longer contenders now that he is gone.

They are still a playoff team and a top 4 team in the East.  Also, correction.  They got Leonard because they kept together their core of aging players and remained competitive.  

[kg01]

22 minutes ago, AHF said:

They didn't.  But they would never have contended if they didn't have their lottery picks to flip.  The only reason they won was because of Kawhi Leonard. The only reason they had him is because they finished with the 3rd worst record in the East and got a lottery pick to develop and trade.

They are no longer contenders now that he is gone.

I blame you for engaging.

It's like a game of battleship where the opponent keeps moving his pieces.

[AHF]

18 minutes ago, KB21 said:

They are still a playoff team and a top 4 team in the East. 

Oooh, let's do a bet whether they win a ring this year if you believe they are an actual contender.  One month of my picking your avatar if they don't win a ring this year.  You get a full year of picking my avatar if they do.

Not taking a bet with a 12:1 bias is an open admission that they aren't contenders this season.  Which, of course, they aren't.  They are a playoff team and also ran.

Quote

Also, correction.  They got Leonard because they kept together their core of aging players and remained competitive.  

This would be true if he was a free agent who chose they team because they remained competitive.  Whether they were competitive or not was irrelevant to them getting Kawhi.  They got Kawhi because the lottery pick they developed was the most attractive trade asset on the team.  The Spurs didn't care about whether Toronto kept a core of aging players or not.  They wanted the All-Star former lottery pick.  They cared about the trade asset.

[KB21]

The Raptors can be a contender and still not win a ring, and I'm not betting against Bud.  The Raptors are more of a potential contender than your tanking darling 76ers though.  

[macdaddy]

19 hours ago, KB21 said:

Show me when Toronto had an extended stay in the lottery and where that was responsible for building their championship team.

I just did.  They were 5 seasons in the lottery ending in 2013.  Having those 3 lottery picks were DIRECTLY responsible for them winning a championship.    No Derozan, No Kawhi, No championship.  Please refute that.

[KB21]

5 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

I just did.  They were 5 seasons in the lottery ending in 2013.  Having those 3 lottery picks were DIRECTLY responsible for them winning a championship.    No Derozan, No Kawhi, No championship.  Please refute that.

I know you want to believe that so you can have faith that the disaster of a team Travis Schlenk has fielded actually has some hope to compete in the next 10 years, but you are wrong.  They won a championship because they didn't rely on young unproven talent.  

[AHF]

17 hours ago, KB21 said:

The Raptors can be a contender and still not win a ring, and I'm not betting against Bud.  The Raptors are more of a potential contender than your tanking darling 76ers though.  

Talk is cheap.  You just confirmed they aren't actually contenders.  As we both knew to begin with.

[macdaddy]

1 minute ago, KB21 said:

I know you want to believe that so you can have faith that the disaster of a team Travis Schlenk has fielded actually has some hope to compete in the next 10 years, but you are wrong.  They won a championship because they didn't rely on young unproven talent.  

Nice factual response.  They won a championship because they had lottery acquired talent and were able to use that to acquire Kawhi.    Keep moving the goal post if you want.

 

[KB21]

Just now, AHF said:

Talk is cheap.  You just confirmed they aren't actually contenders.  As we both knew to begin with.

Uh, no.  They are a top 4 eastern conference team.  They are contenders.  Milwaukee is just that much better because of Bud.  In fact, they are the #2 seed in the east right now.

[AHF]

4 minutes ago, KB21 said:

Uh, no.  They are a top 4 eastern conference team.  They are contenders.  Milwaukee is just that much better because of Bud.  In fact, they are the #2 seed in the east right now.

You don't really believe that.  If you did, you'd take a bet stacked 12:1 in your favor.  In fact, I'll give you two years: 24:1 odds.  You still won't take it because you know you are just trying to puff up a non-contender playoff team into something they are not.  

A team that doesn't have a realistic chance to win a ring is not a contender.  There are not 8 contenders every season and being top 4 in a conference definitely does not put you on the list of legit championship contenders.