Hawks Offseason Officially Starts!

[JayBirdHawk]

26 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

Collins is possibly the 3rd best up and coming in the entire league. Maybe tied with Paskal. I’ll just put it this way, if we didn’t have Collins, we would be looking to trade for Collins. He’s just a perfect fit with Trae and the timeline fits. Why dip into the Obi pool. It’s redundant where we already have a potential all star and 20/10 guy in JC. I think we still go BPA obviously but if it’s between Obi and another prospect in a different position other than PF, I say we lean that way. We got PG and PF covered. Build in other areas now.

Pascal Siakam's ability to play defense and handle the ball is way ahead of John's (that's why giving Pascal a max deal was prudent). I would also put Bam ask @kg01 in this category.

[kg01]

24 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

Collins is possibly the 3rd best up and coming in the entire league. Maybe tied with Paskal. I’ll just put it this way, if we didn’t have Collins, we would be looking to trade for Collins. He’s just a perfect fit with Trae and the timeline fits. Why dip into the Obi pool. It’s redundant where we already have a potential all star and 20/10 guy in JC. I think we still go BPA obviously but if it’s between Obi and another prospect in a different position other than PF, I say we lean that way. We got PG and PF covered. Build in other areas now.

Because Toppin could end up being almost as good as Collins ... but just older by the time he gets to the level Collins is right now ... with worse defense .. and by then Trae will probably be gone?

[Spud2nique]

1 minute ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Pascal Siakam's ability to play defense and handle the ball is way of ahead of John's (that's why giving Pascal a max deal was prudent). I would also put Bam in this category.

To me they are super close. Depends on the system, for the Raps, Siakam is better but for us I truly do believe Trae works better with John than he would Paskal. Paskal’s defense is definitely better though.

[Spud2nique]

2 minutes ago, kg01 said:

Because Toppin could end up being almost as good as Collins ... but just older by the time he gets to the level Collins is right now ... with worse defense .. and by then Trae will probably be gone?

Ya I’m crossing out Toppin and Killian Hayes for sure. Hayes needs the ball in his hands we already got that in Trae. I’m still very much open to Lamelo though. He’s 2 inches taller than Killian, and can make great passes without necessarily dominating the ball.

 

Is it too late to trade the pick for Ben Simmons? @TheFuzz get in here!  

[JayBirdHawk]

1 minute ago, Spud2nique said:

To me they are super close. Depends on the system, for the Raps, Siakam is better but for us I truly do believe Trae works better with John than he would Paskal. Paskal’s defense is definitely better though.

I've seen both Pascal and Bam grab boards and run the floor and make plays for themselves or others, I'm hoping that's the next step in JC's development (which was something LP mentioned, but him getting suspended put it on the back burner for the season).

 

[Spud2nique]

11 minutes ago, kg01 said:

Because Toppin could end up being almost as good as Collins ... but just older by the time he gets to the level Collins is right now ... with worse defense .. and by then Trae will probably be gone?

  

[kg01]

4 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

Ya I’m crossing out Toppin and Killian Hayes for sure. Hayes needs the ball in his hands we already got that in Trae. I’m still very much open to Lamelo though. He’s 2 inches taller than Killian, and can make great passes without necessarily dominating the ball.

 

Is it too late to trade the pick for Ben Simmons? @TheFuzz get in here!  

How is this a knock on Hayes but not on Ball?

Him being 2 inches taller just makes it all that more infuriating watching him shy away from any and all contact.  Via the draft, Ball is a trade chip for us.  Nothing more.

Speaking of trade, I wonder how realistic a Capela/'20 FRP-for-Gobert swap would be?  UTA was going nowhere fast before the stoppage.  Unlike PHI, UTA has enough tape to see their mix is bad.

[NBASupes]

4 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

To me they are super close. Depends on the system, for the Raps, Siakam is better but for us I truly do believe Trae works better with John than he would Paskal. Paskal’s defense is definitely better though.

Siakam like John is having a down year impact wise compared to last year and Siakam is still superior in so many ways. 

Passing

Ball Handling

Dribbling

Every aspect of defense

Hustle

He has better tools. 

He's faster than John. 

 

John has and always had movement skills on lock in comparison to Siakam and it's not even close. Honestly, Siakam lack of movement skills is a hindrance to me from him. While Siakam isn't an #1 option, he likely isn't an ideal #2 either but his defensive value is pretty damn good and his offense is good enough. Offensively, they are close. Defensively, it's a massive gap as wide as the one between Trae and De'Anthony Melton.

John also is a superior finisher with superior hands. Both got a nice shooting touch. 

Siakam is worth the max but he's not really a 2nd max contract guy. He's more of a rookie max guy though and though. 

John is a 16-20 per type of guy like Myles Turner, Gordon, LaVine and em. Good player. Good stats but questionable impact. Needs to prove more. 

[kg01]

2 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

  

In supes' defense, eggsperts I've heard on Toppin say he could be along the lines of Amare but only if a team invests in having him be their primary offensive option.

[NBASupes]

14 minutes ago, kg01 said:

Because Toppin could end up being almost as good as Collins ... but just older by the time he gets to the level Collins is right now ... with worse defense .. and by then Trae will probably be gone?

If we draft Toppin, I will be on your ass. Just letting you know now. I already know you will cop a plea once you see exactly what I been saying all this time. 

[Spud2nique]

1 minute ago, kg01 said:

How is this a knock on Hayes but not on Ball?

Because Lamelo can pass in space better due to the two inch height adv and the style of player he is vs Hayes who needs the ball in his hands for long periods of time. Lamelo will fill out. 
 

He probably won’t be on our radar but he’s a better fit on our roster than Hayes.

3 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

he likely isn't an ideal #2

He won a title as a #2 option already. 

[NBASupes]

1 minute ago, Spud2nique said:

Because Lamelo can pass in space better due to the two inch height adv and the style of player he is vs Hayes who needs the ball in his hands for long periods of time. Lamelo will fill out. 
 

He probably won’t be on our radar but he’s a better fit on our roster than Hayes.

He won a title as a #2 option already. 

They won due to injuries from GS and their lack of depth which was exposed due to injuries. He was inconsistent as a #2. Very inconsistent. He's even more inconsistent as a #1. Toronto is now using Powell as their PPT guy, FVV as their scorer and letting Lowry run the show and Siakam gets it how he gets it. It's a lot better than trying to put Siakam in a role he sucks at. 

[Spud2nique]

I want man badly I’ll be honest. I want the 1st pick and I want to keep him in Atlanta. This kid is a badass 18 year old. Comon Adam Silver do us right!

[Spud2nique]

1 minute ago, NBASupes said:

They won due to injuries from GS and their lack of depth which was exposed due to injuries.

I dunno man he was puttin moves on Draymond Green whose supposed to be an elite defender. Kawhi was big but Paskal broke out in the playoffs and finals. 

[NBASupes]

Just now, Spud2nique said:

I dunno man he was puttin moves on Draymond Green whose supposed to be an elite defender. Kawhi was big but Paskal broke out in the playoffs and finals. 

He's a talented offensive player. Very talented but he's not really consistent. Never has been. The biggest reason for that is, if you limit his initial movement and force him into traffic, he doesn't have the skills to be a true scoring option. Green made adjustments and Siakam had a long series offensively after that. 

I would say it was a great team effort. A lot of heros from Toronto. Lowry, FVV, Gasol, Siakam, Ibaka, and of course Nick Nurse and his adjustments. That said, everyone knows who was the guy, that was Kawhi, all day, everyday. 

[kg01]

14 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

If we draft Toppin, I will be on your ass. Just letting you know now. I already know you will cop a plea once you see exactly what I been saying all this time. 

As always, I'll pivot to rooting for whoever we draft.  I'm not one of these dudes that turns on the team if they don't draft who I like.  Like all these silent dudes who didn't want Trae.  

9 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

I want man badly I’ll be honest. I want the 1st pick and I want to keep him in Atlanta. This kid is a badass 18 year old. Comon Adam Silver do us right!

I don't like the player but, if we unfortunately draft him, I'll find a way to become a fan.

[TheFuzz]

39 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

Ya I’m crossing out Toppin and Killian Hayes for sure. Hayes needs the ball in his hands we already got that in Trae. I’m still very much open to Lamelo though. He’s 2 inches taller than Killian, and can make great passes without necessarily dominating the ball.

 

Is it too late to trade the pick for Ben Simmons? @TheFuzz get in here!  

Knew y'all would come around. Once that Philly team implodes in the playoffs, bringing Simmons or Embiid in is our ticket to contention folks.

 

32 minutes ago, kg01 said:

Speaking of trade, I wonder how realistic a Capela/'20 FRP-for-Gobert swap would be?  UTA was going nowhere fast before the stoppage.  Unlike PHI, UTA has enough tape to see their mix is bad.

Don't think Gobert is worth all that when he's up for a max soon. He'd make us better next season, but long term Capela+Pick is better for us.

[kg01]

1 minute ago, TheFuzz said:

Knew y'all would come around. Once that Philly team implodes in the playoffs, bringing Simmons or Embiid in is our ticket to contention folks.

 

Don't think Gobert is worth all that when he's up for a max soon. He'd make us better next season, but long term Capela+Pick is better for us.

You're skipping a step in PHI.  This year's flame out will be blamed on Brett Brown who will rightfully lose his job.  They won't break up Embiid/Simmons before that step and they certainly won't do it in the same offseason.  Honestly, considering the lost revenue and the weird/short offseason, there's a chance no major roster changes will happen.

I tend to agree on Gobert, value-wise, considering his contract. I suppose I'm assuming, if they trade for him, they'd do so with some 'understanding' on a next contract.  Similar to what HOU did when they acquired Chris Paul.

[AHF]

1 hour ago, Spud2nique said:

My biggest mistake was Marvin. I was convinced he was a James Worthy type impact guy. Also thought AC Law was gonna be something nice with his ambidextrous ways. 
 

Ya we all miss. I’m pretty sure nobody is perfect around here.

I remember being on the phone with my brother watching that lottery and when we got #2 I said, “Chris Paul.  Ok.  Big upgrade for us.”

But by draft time I was good with Marvin as the highest ceiling player in the draft and concerns over Paul’s size.  Oops.

[Spud2nique]

3 minutes ago, kg01 said:

You're skipping a step in PHI.  This year's flame out will be blamed on Brett Brown who will rightfully lose his job.  They won't break up Embiid/Simmons before that step and they certainly won't do it in the same offseason.  Honestly, considering the lost revenue and the weird/short offseason, there's a chance no major roster changes will happen.

I tend to agree on Gobert, value-wise, considering his contract. I suppose I'm assuming, if they trade for him, they'd do so with some 'understanding' on a next contract.  Similar to what HOU did when they acquired Chris Paul.

Tag her in.