The Mega Super Rumor Thread (Part 2)

[theheroatl]

5 minutes ago, Diesel said:

I hear a lot of squawkers Balking at the thought of losing OO in this trade. 

A minute ago, we didn't know how to define OO's position. 

I think what some are failing to see is that Murray is a 2 way player who has All NBA talent and is proven.   That's why the ask is so high. 

Also, San Antonio put his name out there for a reason.  To get good offers.   Don't think that JC + Picks is the best offer that they can get.   NY would send them the whole world.  I'm talking Randle, Cam + Picks.   I'm sure that Most teams have an offer that they would send.. even a team like Boston. 

So  let's not balk too hard. 

 

No way they would want Randle ever... His market is worse than Gordon Hayward. The thing is they actually want JC and have been linked to them before.

Edited June 23, 2022 by theheroatl

[Diesel]

Hawks fans watching the Internet today like:

 

[Diesel]

1 minute ago, theheroatl said:

No way they would want Randle ever... His market is worse than Gordon Hayward

I'm just saying, I don't know what kind a package a team like NY is willing to put together.   If it's said they would put together a big deal for Brunsen, what do you think they'd do for Murray?

[theheroatl]

6 minutes ago, Diesel said:

I'm just saying, I don't know what kind a package a team like NY is willing to put together.   If it's said they would put together a big deal for Brunsen, what do you think they'd do for Murray?

It's one thing to be a UFA like Brunson but another to have to give up assets that SAS actually wants or finds value in. As usual, Knicks have little value except Tobbin, Quickley, DAL 2023 FRP and their own to mortgage. The reason why there is so much hype on this here is it actually makes sense from both sides more so than other trades.

The only big question left is why was it leaked to Fischer before a woj or sham bomb... That is what gives it pause. 

Edited June 23, 2022 by theheroatl

[Diesel]

2 minutes ago, theheroatl said:

It's one thing to be a UFA like Brunson but another to have to give up assets that SAS actually wants or finds value in. As usual, Knicks have little value except Tobbin, Quickley, DAL 2023 FRP and their own to mortgage. The reason why there is so much hype on this here is it actually makes sense from both sides more so than other trades.

You underestimate.  Before we go down this road, the point is that anybody can put up a good package.

Back to where we were...  It's likely that NY will still be worse than us.  Next year's draft is set to be packed with talent.   I can suggest that NY doesn't care about their draft pick next year and it's likely to be in the lottery.   Whereas if we got Murray, our pick would be high twenties. 

When you look at what NY has...  Grimes, Quickly, Cam, Tobbin... that's all of their young talent.   The only player that they have that I don't think will make it to the trade post is Barrett.   Finally, Randle's contract isn't bad for a team that has plenty of money.   Think about it, Spurs has a good young team.. and they get 4 yrs of Julius being the lead dog through their mediocre years.  It's a perfect role with him.   One that he was playing in NY.  Guiding a team of Young talent. 

 

[thecampster]

8 hours ago, NBASupes said:

Can't trade both. Gotta have one of them. Trade them picks 

[thecampster]

8 hours ago, Spud2nique said:

Wait OO too? Damn. That’s a ton. 

We can’t give JC and OO? Our front court would blow.

Giving up JC and OO clears up about $13.3 million in space under the LT, leaving room to sign a front court vet replacement. It also means the possibility of keeping Gallo 1 more year to fill in. He did fine filling in for JC last year. (If I remember right, its when we made up ground and secured the play in).

 

The OO loss hurts but Murray is a playmaker a step behind Trae. There is no doubling Trae with the 2 of them on the court together.

[thecampster]

LOL @ Murray trolling his own trade rumors.

 

 

[thecampster]

7 hours ago, RedDawg#8 said:

Okay, now that all the excitement has calmed down, can we talk actual numbers?

Murray is making $16.57 mil next year 

JC is making $23.5 next season.

Spurs can ask for a haul all they want to but they have to give us more back than just Murray.

If the rumors are true and its JC+ multiple picks + another young player, let’s just say that brings our value to 30+ mil outgoing

So, what on Earth is SAS going to be sending back with Murray to make this trade work?

Am I off base, cap people? I don’t do numbers for a reason

At the completion of the trade, SAS remains under the cap. The Hawks take back less salary then sending out.  Numbers don't matter.

[Final_quest]

12 minutes ago, thecampster said:

Giving up JC and OO clears up about $13.3 million in space under the LT, leaving room to sign a front court vet replacement. It also means the possibility of keeping Gallo 1 more year to fill in. He did fine filling in for JC last year. (If I remember right, its when we made up ground and secured the play in).

 

The OO loss hurts but Murray is a playmaker a step behind Trae. There is no doubling Trae with the 2 of them on the court together.

Bring it.  Could Capela for Ayton still be in play?

[thecampster]

7 hours ago, NBASupes said:

Exactly. I don't even mind trading Okongwu but he's a centerpiece, not a filler. If you want fillers, Jalen Johnson is your guy

You've gone too far!!!

Jalen is the future at the 4. I know you want to put OO at the 4 but OO can't put the ball on the floor, OO can't (as of yet) shoot.  He's a defensive big right now.

This is Onyeka's shot chart. There are many like it, but this one is his.

 There is not 1 shot outside the paint, not 1. (okay, 1 missed one from 12 feet).

 

Jalen Johnson is a 3 tier scorer with the ability to guard 2-4. He struggles in switching and team defense but has improved greatly in 1 year at the G-League level. His 22/11/4.6 g-league stats are plenty to show he can play at this level. He just needs time. He has less questions on defense than OO has on offense. You do not thrown in Jalen Johnson. You already won that draft pick.

OO is a good player, a very valuable player but he is not elite. He will never be an elite center due to his height. He may win a chip one day but he won't be the reason they one the chip. He doesn't have that skillset. Go back last year and think of the number of passes he dropped when moving toward the basket (there were quite a few). Think of the number of moving screens (again, quite a few). The kid has holes in his game and most of them are movement based, footwork based. Give me a tall center who can hit a 15 footer all day long and I'll take serviceable.

Jalen Johnson is 1 full year younger than OO with 1 more year of team control on a 1/3 the price contract. If you were to throw JJ into any deal right now, teams would drool. He's a 3/4 that is fast enough to guard 2's. I can guarantee you he's been asked about by 1/2 the teams in the league sending out feelers. The team won't let JC go because they think OO is the future at the 4. They'll let JC go because they believe JJ is. The kid is going to be that good.

Edited June 23, 2022 by thecampster

[thecampster]

7 hours ago, Hawkmoor said:

And Kawhi Leonard went 15.  And the Hawks drafted a top 3 pick ( Jalen Johnson) in the bottom of the first.  Only the teams know who they value.  I KNEW the Spurs were gonna shop Murray which is why I wanted the Hawks to grab back in December.  Pops wants a true point guard, not a combo guard.

Damn it!  Now you guys have me agreeing with Hawkmoor....with HAWKMOOR!!!.....and liking his posts.

[NBASupes]

8 minutes ago, thecampster said:

You've gone too far!!!

Jalen is the future at the 4. I know you want to put OO at the 4 but OO can't put the ball on the floor, OO can't (as of yet) shoot.  He's a defensive big right now.

This is Onyeka's shot chart. There are many like it, but this one is his.

 There is not 1 shot outside the paint, not 1. (okay, 1 missed one from 12 feet).

 

Jalen Johnson is a 3 tier scorer with the ability to guard 2-4. He struggles in switching and team defense but has improved greatly in 1 year at the G-League level. His 22/11/4.6 g-league stats are plenty to show he can play at this level. He just needs time. He has less questions on defense than OO has on offense. You do not thrown in Jalen Johnson. You already won that draft pick.

OO is a good player, a very valuable player but he is not elite. He will never be an elite center due to his height. He may win a chip one day but he won't be the reason they one the chip. He doesn't have that skillset. Go back last year and think of the number of passes he dropped when moving toward the basket (there were quite a few). Think of the number of moving screens (again, quite a few). The kid has holes in his game and most of them are movement based, footwork based. Give me a tall center who can hit a 15 footer all day long and I'll take serviceable.

Jalen Johnson is 1 full year younger than OO with 1 more year of team control on a 1/3 the price contract. If you were to throw JJ into any deal right now, teams would drool. He's a 3/4 that is fast enough to guard 2's. I can guarantee you he's been asked about by 1/2 the teams in the league sending out feelers. The team won't let JC go because they think OO is the future at the 4. They'll let JC go because they believe JJ is. The kid is going to be that good.

JJ is the perfect filler for this type of deal. I stand by that. Sell this post to Spurs fans when they land him 

[georgia]

So is there a strong belief this trade is about to happen??

 

If so, Huerter or Bogi is gone next

[thecampster]

7 hours ago, sturt said:

So, let me catch up... @Sothron acknowledged that Murray was the big secret on his side. Can @NBASupes and @thecampster confirm that they've heard something similar now?

I told you exactly what I was told.  Everything we'd heard up until June 9th was just a smokescreen. Something big was going on. I was never given a name. My old source knew but couldn't say. My young source couldn't get anything he could share. When discussed, Sothron had heard something but didn't get a name until a few days ago but didn't/couldn't share. I'd told @AHF and @JayBirdHawk about it in the interim with the same info I dropped on your guys yesterday (minus the JC bit). I didn't want to speculate. I find it hard to swallow. I love JC but I get it and understood everything I was told.

 

Too many people see JC+OO for Murray and get wrapped up in those players only.  They forget it creates space ($13.3 million).  That deal can easily be the space needed to resign Delon Wright, Knox and a replacement center.  Here, choose any from this list. If you want a championship, you need money. $45 million tied up in Gallo, Collins is a lot of money. Throw in another 18 million for can't keep his knees healthy Bogi and its really hard to pick up good salary.  

[thecampster]

Here, let me throw out this depth chart and then tell you what it costs.

 

Trae/Wright/Cooper

Murray/Huerter/Mays

Hunter/Knox

Portis/JJ

Gobert/Robin Lopez

 

Approximately $136 million.  Add in $5 million for Gallo's guarantee. $141 million.

You have $8 million to spend on 3 vet roster spots and still have the MLE.

 

That's a championship roster right there. It would suck to have to give up JC and OO to do it...but the goal isn't touchy feely, happy happy, lets all be together forever. The goal is a chip and that team can win one.

 

 

[NBASupes]

2 minutes ago, thecampster said:

Here, let me throw out this depth chart and then tell you what it costs.

 

Trae/Wright/Cooper

Murray/Huerter/Mays

Hunter/Knox

Portis/JJ

Gobert/Robin Lopez

 

Approximately $136 million.  Add in $5 million for Gallo's guarantee. $141 million.

You have $8 million to spend on 3 vet roster spots and still have the MLE.

 

That's a championship roster right there. It would suck to have to give up JC and OO to do it...but the goal isn't touchy feely, happy happy, lets all be together forever. The goal is a chip and that team can win one.

 

 

Portis is f***ing garbage. I hate low BBIQ players like Portis and JJ Hickson of the world with a passion. I am out on Murray if it cost us Okongwu and JC. If it's just one, I am all in

[CJB]

5 minutes ago, thecampster said:

Here, let me throw out this depth chart and then tell you what it costs.

 

Trae/Wright/Cooper

Murray/Huerter/Mays

Hunter/Knox

Portis/JJ

Gobert/Robin Lopez

 

Approximately $136 million.  Add in $5 million for Gallo's guarantee. $141 million.

You have $8 million to spend on 3 vet roster spots and still have the MLE.

 

That's a championship roster right there. It would suck to have to give up JC and OO to do it...but the goal isn't touchy feely, happy happy, lets all be together forever. The goal is a chip and that team can win one.

 

 

Please no Knox. Also any chance we can still trade for the rights to Micic as backup 1?

[NBASupes]

Yall overrate guards way too much, Portis in a starting lineup is not a championship roster unless you got a Jordan, Bron, or Giannis type. One of those Gawds to play the game. 

 

This is a contender starting five

Trae

Murray

Hunter

Okongwu 

Ayton

 

All of the pieces fit. You got no idiots. Okongwu is the 5th option and don't need a lot of touches and provides excellent defense and potentially elite defense. Ayton is the #2 option. Murray is the the 3rd option. Hunter is the 4th option like Wiggins in GS. Makes sense and everyone fits. Outside of Trae and Hunter, everyone plays off the ball exceptionally well. You got defensive protection for Ayton with Okongwu. That's a winning formula. The other shit is Highlight Factory Hawks. A lot of sizzle, no steak.

Edited June 23, 2022 by NBASupes

[thecampster]

7 hours ago, sturt said:

 

Um. Not really. Camp's very last thing as I recall was that Hawks FO had figured out a new angle that would allow them to keep Collins. I can go look it up, but I posted about it earlier, so I know 100% that's what he said.

And it's not like there aren't many players in the league who might be considered dogs.

The part you're referencing is me saying their relationship isn't dead. There is no animosity. JC isn't mad and wants out. The Hawks aren't done with him. Its purely a fit, team building move that could easily be reversed if the right players materialized.