Take the 25 game pledge (... or if not, modify it to suit your own convictions... )

[bleachkit]

21 hours ago, Jdawgflow said:

I think she would be a great hire.  Wins wherever she goes.

But there is a downside to hiring her, although not her fault in any way. That's the intense media scrutiny she would bring as the first female head coach in the big 4 major professional sports. Also, if she didnt do well, and the Hawks fired her, there would be intense criticism from ESPN and other media outlets. Cries of sexism and the like. Media would also not want to criticize her, so would heap it on the players instead. Everything would be analyzed through the prism of gender/society, etc, instead of just basketball. 

[sturt]

Wins "wherever she goes?"

Did I miss something? Thought her NBA resume' is one place she went.

 

[sturt]

5 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

But there is a downside to hiring her, although not her fault in any way. That's the intense media scrutiny she would bring as the first female head coach in the big 4 major professional sports. Also, if she didnt do well, and the Hawks fired her, there would be intense criticism from ESPN and other media outlets. Cries of sexism and the like. Media would also not want to criticize her, so would heap it on the players instead. Everything would be analyzed through the prism of gender/society, etc, instead of just basketball. 

If we were in a developmental stage, none of that would be a problem... and too, it's exactly the kind of situation that would work best since a developmental roster would allow her some latitude and reduced scrutiny.

[Spud2nique]

3 hours ago, sturt said:

No you don't.

"Know" is a higher threshold.

Oh yeaaaa well, you can listen to Jimmy Hendricks but you can’t heeeeeeaaaarrrr Jimmy! Listening is hearing… and then some.. 

[sturt]

Is that the same cat as Jimi Hendrix?

[Jdawgflow]

57 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

But there is a downside to hiring her, although not her fault in any way. That's the intense media scrutiny she would bring as the first female head coach in the big 4 major professional sports. Also, if she didnt do well, and the Hawks fired her, there would be intense criticism from ESPN and other media outlets. Cries of sexism and the like. Media would also not want to criticize her, so would heap it on the players instead. Everything would be analyzed through the prism of gender/society, etc, instead of just basketball. 

I hear you but I would hope we would make hires based on best choice in regards to helping us win rather than optics.  Now that hope is just that.  I don’t have a lot of faith in our ownership currently.  
 

in regard to criticism going to the players, Trae gets plenty of that in the media already

[Spud2nique]

4 minutes ago, sturt said:

Is that the same cat as Jimi Hendrix?

Ya sorry I was drunk ‍

@sturt I got another one for ya..

Don Nots was awesome  

[Spud2nique]

@sturt I see you on ..

Ok your turn…

GO!

[sturt]

[Spud2nique]

34 minutes ago, sturt said:

Don’t laugh but I’d always confuse the monkeys and Beetles as a kid. I was an 80’s kid so..

[sturt]

Monkees... Beatles... Jimi... Hendrix....

 

I'm laughing for a whole other reason, my friend.... didn't make it out of the first go-round on those speling beas did ya?

 

[Spud2nique]

9 minutes ago, sturt said:

Monkees... Beatles... Jimi... Hendrix....

 

I'm laughing for a whole other reason, my friend.... didn't make it out of the first go-round on those speling beas did ya?

 

Spelling bees … … no I was gettin La!d in the cafeteria. #coolkids 

Edited December 23, 2022 by Spud2nique

[Spud2nique]

13 minutes ago, sturt said:

I'm laughing

#madeyalaugh  

[thecampster]

25 games have come and gone and I raised a few eyebrows in this thread when I mentioned I had some preconceived notions (see here: 

).  I received private messages after saying this but managed to keep my mouth shut.

Before the 2018 draft, I was one of the few posters actively campaigning for Trae Young. I wanted a heads up point guard and believed the team would people players around him to help him grow, cover for his short comings.

In the interim, the team has consistently favored undersized players to pair with Trae, further exasperating the team's defensive woes.  They've drafted small and fast at every position, trying to run when you have a guard who doesn't run, he dissects. 

Then, there's Trae's immaturity. There, I said it. I've given him 4 years but despite his high assist rate, he's a shoot first point guard who wastes possessions on the regular on long 3's, unnecessary 1v1's and chest puffing. Trae's father's constant social media nonsense and Trae's me first attitude has created a terrible Karma problem.  The me first stuff down the stretch has cost us 2 losses recently  (almost 3).

I questioned when the trade happened that sooner rather than later the Hawks would regret the Huerter trade.  The improvement in the Kings and their good Karma and the shooting woes of these Hawks shows me I may be right here. The Huerter trade away was a huge step back for the team. Not in talent but in cohesion, good feels, team play.

John Collins is palpably hurting from Trae's time on the floor and he might as well be dealt at this point. He and Trae no longer pair well and I honestly hope for him to be in a situation that appreciates and uses him.

I love Dejaunte but I fear a trade away of Trae will sour him on the situation here.

Griffin is great.

Johnson is being wasted, barely getting shots, limited minutes and being forced to do things to cover for others' wants/needs.

I've over Capela and I'm not sold on Bogi's health.  

 

It is what it is. Trae is amazing, but if the Hawks do walk away from him at this point, I'm okay with it.  His impact is no longer in line with his stats. He needs to grow up and see the team game or we need to move on.  

I take no pleasure in writing this. I've been a huge fan of his before he got here but I'm a Hawks fan first.

[Spud2nique]

9 minutes ago, thecampster said:

Hawks would regret the Huerter trade. 

Were you Huerter’s ball shagger ooorrr..?

[Guest]

16 minutes ago, thecampster said:

25 games have come and gone and I raised a few eyebrows in this thread when I mentioned I had some preconceived notions (see here: 

).  I received private messages after saying this but managed to keep my mouth shut.

Before the 2018 draft, I was one of the few posters actively campaigning for Trae Young. I wanted a heads up point guard and believed the team would people players around him to help him grow, cover for his short comings.

In the interim, the team has consistently favored undersized players to pair with Trae, further exasperating the team's defensive woes.  They've drafted small and fast at every position, trying to run when you have a guard who doesn't run, he dissects. 

Then, there's Trae's immaturity. There, I said it. I've given him 4 years but despite his high assist rate, he's a shoot first point guard who wastes possessions on the regular on long 3's, unnecessary 1v1's and chest puffing. Trae's father's constant social media nonsense and Trae's me first attitude has created a terrible Karma problem.  The me first stuff down the stretch has cost us 2 losses recently  (almost 3).

I questioned when the trade happened that sooner rather than later the Hawks would regret the Huerter trade.  The improvement in the Kings and their good Karma and the shooting woes of these Hawks shows me I may be right here. The Huerter trade away was a huge step back for the team. Not in talent but in cohesion, good feels, team play.

John Collins is palpably hurting from Trae's time on the floor and he might as well be dealt at this point. He and Trae no longer pair well and I honestly hope for him to be in a situation that appreciates and uses him.

I love Dejaunte but I fear a trade away of Trae will sour him on the situation here.

Griffin is great.

Johnson is being wasted, barely getting shots, limited minutes and being forced to do things to cover for others' wants/needs.

I've over Capela and I'm not sold on Bogi's health.  

 

It is what it is. Trae is amazing, but if the Hawks do walk away from him at this point, I'm okay with it.  His impact is no longer in line with his stats. He needs to grow up and see the team game or we need to move on.  

I take no pleasure in writing this. I've been a huge fan of his before he got here but I'm a Hawks fan first.

A thoughtful response, campster, to be sure.
I still hold out hope for a Hawks team that includes Trae.  But, yes, he has to mature both in his willingness to be more of a team player, and his attitude toward coaches, refs, opponents, and teammates. 
I am still fond of Capela but wish a bit more diversity from him offensively, though the old dog probably won't learn many new tricks.
Agree on Collins, simply because I believe he deserves better and we likely need a truer stretch four who can create a bit for himself.  
Hunter has to become "more."
AJ hopefully becomes all he seems capable of becoming.
Bogi is a nice treat to have but I hope he declines his option or we can bundle him in the offseason for something.
JJ needs to be set free a bit to make mistakes, but fighting for the playoffs will make Nate too hesitant.
OO --- see Hunter above.
The Huerter trade was almost certainly made, IMHO, because A) why start a cycle of repeat tax offenses when we're not close enough to a title? B) I think they felt Bogi would be ready much sooner this season.
Nate has to go.

[sturt]

Presented without comment from exactly 32 games into last season. The Eastern Conference champs' season, that is.

Well, maybe one comment.

Sobriety.

 

 

[sturt]

3 hours ago, Spud2nique said:

La!d in the cafeteria.

Wasn't going to say anything, but there's actually hidden camera footage on the internet from back then...  this is as much as our family-oriented site would allow to be posted...

 

 

Ewwwww. Making it with the lunch lady made you cool? Different kinda school than mine, for sure.

 

 

[AHF]

11 hours ago, sturt said:

Maybe.

Sure is the more politically correct angle. Have to admit, either side you play on this one, you're going to be branded as too closed minded or too welcoming to novel ideas. Can't get away from that part, at the risk of stating the obvious.

Soberly, isn't it hard to say what attention Benji Hammon would have been able to get out of 8 seasons as an assistant coach for a single team, albeit under one of the most admired head coaches of our time?

Wonder if there are any examples of that... someone who labored for 8 seasons as an assistant coach for a single team, albeit under one of the most admired head coaches of our time... ???

Hmmm.

Yeah, sure there is.

How about Bud? He did 8 years for Pop. Was it just 8, though?

She is way more qualified than many male hires have been.  Not sure why this seems to bother you.  Why insert the word “politically correct” here?  She isn’t more qualified than every male in the history of the game.  Why should she be?  

I believe 6 former Popovich assistants have been hired as NBA head coaches but god forbid anyone consider Becky fully qualified after 8 years under him (followed by COTY in the WNBA).  Note that this doesn’t count numerous former Pops players who have been hired as head coaches like Steve Kerr and Monty Williams.  Kerr stepped into the job without a day as an NBA coach.  Monty had substantially less than BH, etc.

I just raise two eyebrows when I hear people suggest she might be hired not on merit but because of her gender when it is obvious her gender is a negative not a positive for her* and you never hear these same people make these insinuations about male coaches.  When was the last time you heard about a male coach being hired for political correctness?  You never do.  It is just a low blow like Tucker Carlson wanting to see Jackson’s LSAT scores (something he never was curious about before with Brett Kavanaugh and others) as a way of insinuating she wasn’t qualified despite her obvious qualifications.  It is ugly. 
 

* I think we all recognize that guys who didn’t play professionally or even at all for all practical purposes can top make very good coaches.  Pops himself never played serious basketball unless you consider low level college ball serious.  That goes for Bill Belicheck, Brad Stephens, Nick Nurse, etc.  That makes it about the mind for those candidates.  But consider how many male pro sport coaches or revenue college sports coaches for male teams are female.  Like anyone in their right mind would think Ron Jirsa was more qualified than Pat Summit but you can sure as **** know he was less of a risk and less likely to draw hate and negative attention being the head coach of a men’s team.  Jirsa’s are a dime a dozen among male coaches.  We’ve had some of our own in Atlanta like Lon Kruger who never coached a pro game even as ann assistant video editor but was hired without anyone claiming it was political correctness. Give me an explanation that you don’t want anyone but people who have NBA head coaching experience (as Stuart did here) and I’ll respect that view even if I don’t agree but don’t give me the “I’m afraid she might get the job just because she has a vagina - I’m just asking questions” type of BS.  That I won’t respect.

[sturt]

1 hour ago, AHF said:

She is way more qualified than many male hires have been.

True. And. There are many males more qualified than many other male hires have been.

Again again again. I believe she meets the threshold of "qualified."

 

1 hour ago, AHF said:

Not sure why this seems to bother you.

Again again again again, I believe she meets the threshold of "qualified." Not bothered.

 

1 hour ago, AHF said:

Why insert the word “politically correct” here?

Context: Your statement was, "There is no doubt in my mind she would be a head coach already if teams weren’t scared of getting that gamergate type of outrage." My statement was, "Maybe. Sure is the more politically correct angle."

When you cited the "gamergate type of outrage," correct me if I'm wrong, you were speculating that if not for her XX chromosomes, teams wouldn't have these external reasons to be reluctant, and there's no doubt in your mind that if not for her XX chromosomes, she would have already gotten her first NBA head coach gig. (Why are you even asking the question when you yourself put the issue on the table? I dunno.)

My response was agnostic... "maybe"... and then "Have to admit, either side you play on this one, you're going to be branded as too closed minded or too welcoming to novel ideas. Can't get away from that part, at the risk of stating the obvious."

You chose to prefer the latter brand instead of the former brand... so, to your question, it is my perception that that, indeed, is the more politically correct brand to accept. (Where's the mystery?)

 

1 hour ago, AHF said:

She isn’t more qualified than every male in the history of the game.

We agree. And I'm feeling a little lost b/c I feel like I'm missing your point since that sentence states something that obvious.

What I've said is what I'll continue to say.... she meets the threshold of "qualified," and so, should be in the pool of considerations for any team that is in a developmental stage.

Where's the rub?

 

1 hour ago, AHF said:

I believe 6 former Popovich assistants have been hired as NBA head coaches but god forbid anyone consider Becky fully qualified after 8 years under him (followed by COTY in the WNBA).  Note that this doesn’t count numerous former Pops players who have been hired as head coaches like Steve Kerr and Monty Williams.  Kerr stepped into the job without a day as an NBA coach.  Monty had substantially less than BH, etc.

Again. What I've said is what I'll continue to say.... she meets the threshold of "qualified," and so, should be in the pool of considerations for any team that is in a developmental stage.

Again. Where's the rub?

Well, here's my rub.

While I've said that, you've made the audacious claim, paraphrasing, that you have no doubt she would already be a head coach if not for her XX chromosomes. That's qualitatively different than saying someone is qualified. That's saying someone is so so so very very very qualified that it's mysterious that s/he isn't already a head coach.

Clearly, I disagree with that, and feel it is hyperbole... and yes, politically correct hyperbole.

She's not that.

She's qualified. Period. Like a lot of NBA assistants are, though also unlike a lot of NBA assistants, too.

 

1 hour ago, AHF said:

I just raise two eyebrows when I hear people suggest she might be hired not on merit but because of her gender when it is obvious her gender is a negative not a positive for her

You're half right.

It's not one or the other, it's both.

 

It's true, pragmatically, teams' front offices and owners have to think about a whole other layer of concerns than they would ordinarily have with an XY chromosome hire.

It's true, also, that some teams' front offices and owners recognize there is going to be a significant external media push for celebration and praise toward that franchise that is the first to name a female head coach. Conventional wisdom that will be echoed by practically every person connected to the NBA as a player, coach, GM or owner.

Let's not play ignorant to the ways this league has jumped with both feet into culture war issues in Silver's tenure. They chose to move an All-Star Game because they didn't like how North Carolinians wrote laws about bathrooms. They went all-in during the covid season on promoting BLM-inspired messaging.

When (not if) this happens, there will be a practically unanimous voice cheering for the team that takes that step.

So, it's not all good or all bad, because it's both good and it's bad.

 

To my point... it will be a whole lot better on that person if she's treated like practically every other NBA assistant elevated to a first-time head coach gig is treated, and has a chance to prove herself in an environment where expectations for their playoff hopes are modest.

A lot of teams will fit that description over the rest of this season and into the off-season. The Atlanta Hawks are not one of those presently (*knocks on wood*), and should not be anticipated to be one later (*pounds wooden table with crossed fingers*).

 

1 hour ago, AHF said:

as a way of insinuating she wasn’t qualified

 

Again. Here's my rub.

While I've said that, you've made the audacious claim, paraphrasing, that you have no doubt she would already be a head coach if not for her XX chromosomes. That's qualitatively different than saying someone is qualified. That's saying someone is so so so very very very qualified that it's mysterious that s/he isn't already a head coach.

Clearly, I disagree with that, and feel it is hyperbole... and yes, politically correct hyperbole.

She's not that.

She IS QUALIFIED. Period.

 

2 hours ago, AHF said:

Pat Summit

Funny you would bring up her name, and Lon Kruger's in the same paragraph.

I feel pretty confident in alleging that I probably was the first Hawks fan posting on an internet forum in those days, suggesting that Pat Summit should have been not just a candidate but a serious candidate ahead of Kruger.

Reflecting back on it, I was just persuaded that the way that woman carried herself, to me, was almost like the one over in the United Kingdom they called the Iron Lady... just a "I know who I am, and I know how good I am at this, and you'd be smart not to mess with me" spirit. I just felt like NBA players would just really respond to her. We'll never know, unfortunately.