Top to Bottom is this the most talented team we have ever had?

[AHF]

8 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

Sorry man, neither of those dudes made 3s

While I'm not a Pistol fan, he definitely shot from 3pt distance.  The 3pt line wasn't introduced until 1979 so of course they didn't make any - no one in the league did because there were no 3's!  

Pistol would have been better offensively if the 3pt line had been around at that time.  Would have just given him 3 points instead of 2 on those deep shots.  40% on 3pt shots is amazing.  40% on 2pt shots is pretty terrible (particularly when they aren't shots that generate a lot of free throws).

Hudson retired before the 3pt line was introduced.  Pistol played one season with the 3pt line but shot 67% at a very low volume (10 for 15).

[JeffS17]

1 minute ago, AHF said:

While I'm not a Pistol fan, he definitely shot from 3pt distance.  The 3pt line wasn't introduced until 1979 so of course they didn't make any - no one in the league did because there were no 3's!  

Pistol would have been better offensively if the 3pt line had been around at that time.  Would have just given him 3 points instead of 2 on those deep shots.  40% on 3pt shots is amazing.  40% on 2pt shots is pretty terrible (particularly when they aren't shots that generate a lot of free throws).

Sorry I should have been more clear I was being sarcastic  

[Atlantaholic]

1 minute ago, AHF said:

While I'm not a Pistol fan, he definitely shot from 3pt distance.  The 3pt line wasn't introduced until 1979 so of course they didn't make any - no one in the league did because there were no 3's!  

Pistol would have been better offensively if the 3pt line had been around at that time.  Would have just given him 3 points instead of 2 on those deep shots.  40% on 3pt shots is amazing.  40% on 2pt shots is pretty terrible (particularly when they aren't shots that generate a lot of free throws).

Yup he was famous for launching it from deep which was uncommon for obvious reasons back then. Didn't the NBA decide to add the 3pt line mainly because of Pete? Think I read about that somewhere but could be mistaken. 

[AHF]

Just now, JeffS17 said:

Sorry I should have been more clear I was being sarcastic  

I missed that completely.  It is a very legit issue for guys from that era, though.  Guys today have been trained to optimize that shot and it is incredibly important to NBA offenses so if you pick up a guy who can nail the midrange shot at 45% but can't shoot 3's he won't do nearly as well in today's game as he did in the 70's.  Then it is a matter of what era you are using as the baseline to evaluate these guys and whether you are assuming they would have had the training and other advancements available in the era you are using as the baseline.

So I think there is a serious issue, but my bad for missing the sarcasm completely!

[Spud2nique]

25 minutes ago, AHF said:

He played in their playoff series versus the Lakers.

 

Nice catch, I blocked it out. lol.

[AHF]

4 minutes ago, Atlantaholic said:

Yup he was famous for launching it from deep which was uncommon for obvious reasons back then. Didn't the NBA decide to add the 3pt line mainly because of Pete? Think I read about that somewhere but could be mistaken. 

I think the seeds were already being planted in the ABL and ABA but I'm sure the desire to make "little" men more impactful was a (if not the) big driver and Pete would have been a great example.  Obviously, he was too old to really take advantage by the time they did roll it out so it clearly wasn't done for him in the sense that the change to the lane was done for Wilt (i.e., intended to change the way he played the game).

[Diesel]

25 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

Ya even back in the day they had Petro coming off the pine to Drexler of course but still, a young Drazen was still nice. Ainge, Uncle Cliff… ya they had some deep teams no doubt.

Powdered his nose too much in the ladies room.

No... I remember the Jailblazers....

I think.

Zbo, Cato, J Oneal... shoot, maybe it was the same guys.. I don't know...

They also had Rider, Jackson, Augmon.. damn, it was a loaded team.

[Spud2nique]

1 minute ago, Diesel said:

They also had Rider, Jackson, Augmon.. damn, it was a loaded team.

Ya but they gave us Ride and Jim for Stevie. Ugh.

[Diesel]

Just now, Spud2nique said:

Ya but they gave us Ride and Jim for Stevie. Ugh.

One of the saddest days in Atlanta Hawks history. 

 

[Spud2nique]

Plastic will always be a top 10 Hawk to me, perhaps not for production wise but it was all during my high school days, a fun time I guess. 
 

Imagine :

Mookie

Dejounte

Plastic

?

Deke

Not much O but nobody scoring for the opposition.

?=Grant Long 

[Spud2nique]

2 minutes ago, Diesel said:

One of the saddest days in Atlanta Hawks history. 

 

At the time though, call me crazy but I had seen enough of Smitty. I just thought Spree ate his lunch in that 99 Knicks series where we got murdered. 
 

When Chris Crawford is one of your leading guys, the starters are struggling. Hated that series .. Spree and Camby were on a mission.

[AHF]

I think Plastic would be an ideal guy off the bench as a defensive stopper.

[Diesel]

6 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

Plastic will always be a top 10 Hawk to me, perhaps not for production wise but it was all during my high school days, a fun time I guess. 
 

Imagine :

Mookie

Dejounte

Plastic

?

Deke

Not much O but nobody scoring for the opposition.

?=Grant Long 

Plastic man was one of my favs college players turned Hawk.

Maryland Kev.

UNLV Plastic

TAMU Acie

Ga Tech Glover....

I mentioned these three because I remember something about them from their college play and was happy they were drafted by the Hawks. 

Plastic man... I remember UNLV vs. Arkansas.   Damn.  I never seen anybody go as high as Plastic Man did for a dunk.  Then we drafted him. (Actually met him in the mall a few days after he was drafted. )

Maryland Kev made me forget all about Xray Hipp. I thought he was going to be as good as Klay.  Then we drafted him. 

ACIE... come on. he had a Shootout with Kevin Durant.   I thought he got the best of KD.   Then we drafted him. 

Glover... I wanted him to be the man in Atlanta.  When we drafted him, I almost went to Texas Pete's house to turn some tables!!

 

[Spud2nique]

1 hour ago, Diesel said:

Plastic man was one of my favs college players turned Hawk.

Same I cheered UNLV more than any other team, I was never a Fab 5 dude, I mean I rooted for them over Duke too but there was something electric ️ with the Rebs that caught my eye who doesn’t really have a collegiate fav team. 

[Spud2nique]

1 hour ago, Diesel said:

(Actually met him in the mall a few days after he was drafted. )

I envy that. I still have the Augmon/Rodney Monroe rookie card. Lol. Thought that dude was gonna be something too but didn’t pan out.

[Spud2nique]

1 hour ago, Diesel said:

I mentioned these three

Like I said I didn’t have a college team but..

UNLV 

Georgetown (loved coach Thomp he’s prolly my fav coach ever for college)

UCLA a bit just cuz they showed them but nice players along the way. (NOT TREVOR WILSON) damn you Babcock! 
 

Duke- Only the Zion team but I got caught up … they weren’t all that.

[NBASupes]

2 hours ago, Diesel said:

Top heavy is not a bad thing unless the top is lacking.   That's the issue.. a lot of top heavy teams are not lacking at the top. 

For instance...

The Portland Trailblazers... 2000-2001

No.	Player	Pos	Ht	Wt	Birth Date		Exp	College
50	Greg Anthony	PG	6-0	176	November 15, 1967	us	9	University of Portland, UNLV
2	Stacey Augmon	SG	6-8	205	August 1, 1968	us	9	UNLV
21	Erick Barkley	PG	6-1	177	February 21, 1978	us	R	St. John's
34	Dale Davis	C	6-11	230	March 25, 1969	us	9	Clemson
23	Gary Grant	PG	6-3	185	April 21, 1965	us	12	Michigan
4	Antonio Harvey	PF	6-11	225	July 6, 1970	us	5	Southern Illinois, Georgia, Pfeiffer University
40	Shawn Kemp	PF	6-10	230	November 26, 1969	us	11	Trinity Valley CC
55	Will Perdue	C	7-0	240	August 29, 1965	us	12	Vanderbilt
33	Scottie Pippen	SF	6-8	210	September 25, 1965	us	13	University of Central Arkansas
11	Arvydas Sabonis	C	7-3	279	December 19, 1964	lt	5
12	Detlef Schrempf	SF	6-10	235	January 21, 1963	de	15	Washington
8	Steve Smith	SG	6-7	200	March 31, 1969	us	9	Michigan State
3	Damon Stoudamire	PG	5-10	171	September 3, 1973	us	5	Arizona
1	Rod Strickland	PG	6-3	175	July 11, 1966	us	12	DePaul
30	Rasheed Wallace	PF	6-10	225	September 17, 1974	us	5	UNC
6	Bonzi Wells	SF	6-5	210	September 28, 1976	us	2	Ball State University

 

This is one of the deepest teams that ever was...  And Portland has had a few deep teams.

This team didn't make it out of the first round.   They lost to a top Heavy Laker team in a sweep...

 

The Blazers were legit deep for any era. That particular squad probably had the deepest squad from 90-2015 in my opinion. That said, they were an anomaly. 

2 hours ago, AHF said:

Frankly, top heavy isn't a bad thing in the NBA.  Superstars drive championships. I do agree that the Bulls aren't as deep as we are but they would still run us off the court because of how good their top 7 players were.

The eras definitely impact how valuable the 8th man, etc. would be.  Someone like Jud Buechler is probably more valuable today - 44% 3pt shooter would be more impactful in the current game.  Conversely, Bill Wennington would be a dinosaur in today's game but was a useful big body off the bench along with John Salley.  So you would have to pick a perspective to value those players - valuable for today's game or valuable for the mid-90s?  Given the large differences in both rules and scheme, that starting point is pretty significant to that kind of evaluation.  

I do think depth matters a lot more in the modern NBA than it did in the 90s and 2000s. The game is different. What you ask from players is a lot different. I believe the players in this era can dominate the players in those eras on average. 

I just see today's NBA as a superior product and I watch as much NBA from the 80s, 90s, 2000s, as anyone. The players are just a lot better on average. 

Edited November 9, 2022 by NBASupes

[Diesel]

1 hour ago, Spud2nique said:

Same I cheered UNLV more than any other team, I was never a Fab 5 dude, I mean I rooted for them over Duke too but there was something electric ️ with the Rebs that caught my eye who doesn’t really have a collegiate fav team. 

I kinda new that they threw the game against Duke the 2nd time.   They beat Duke by 30 points the year before.   And they were better than second time. 

I did like the Fab 5.   But the Fab 5 would have been dusted by UNLV and 45 minutes of Hell or whatever they called it. 

 

[Diesel]

1 hour ago, Spud2nique said:

I envy that. I still have the Augmon/Rodney Monroe rookie card. Lol. Thought that dude was gonna be something too but didn’t pan out.

Yeah, Found myself standing next to Augmon a few days before Christmas of his Rookie year listening to people singing Christmas Carols.  I hate when we traded him even though he never became the player he was in College.  I do remember him giving Pippen the business. 

 

[Diesel]

1 hour ago, Spud2nique said:

Like I said I didn’t have a college team but..

UNLV 

Georgetown (loved coach Thomp he’s prolly my fav coach ever for college)

UCLA a bit just cuz they showed them but nice players along the way. (NOT TREVOR WILSON) damn you Babcock! 
 

Duke- Only the Zion team but I got caught up … they weren’t all that.

One thing about Duke...

Hated Jay Williams.   Hated Bobby Hurley.  Hated Danny Ferry.   Hated Elton Brand.  Hated Christian Lattener (with a hate that goes to the atomic level).   The only dukie I liked was Grant Hill.  Trying to find some like for Zion but I hate his work ethic. 

When I watched intently, I was a Kentucky fan... Mashburn was the king of Basketball!! followed by UNLV, Arkansas, and the Fab 5... and Glenn Rice's Michigan team (Who didn't love them)....  And Mookie Blaylock/Stacey King's OU.... and  Kenny Anderson, Dennis Scott, and -----Damn, who was the third guy...   And Dominique, Terry Fair, and Vern Fleming at UGA.