2023-24 Insider Information Thread

[KB21]

2 minutes ago, Afro said:

This is what doesn't make any sense at all to me. Everyone is so obsessed with *our* picks. 

If you plan to be good, why exactly are our own picks the best deal? 

I don't understand why were actively rooting to trade Trae for middling 1sts. 

It's because those picks are available to be dealt.  OKC is the only other team that has that kind of draft capital.  My scenario with the Spurs involves us getting a young, rising, two-way player in Vassell along with the picks.  My scenario, we have Murray.  We have Vassell.  We have Johnson.  We have Bufkin.  We have Gueye.  We have Bogi.  We add, hypothetically, Sarr, Castle, and Holland to that.  You have picks in immediate future drafts in this scenario now that can either be used to consolidate talent to add better talent or you use them to continue to bring in talents like Jalen Johnson who was the 20th pick in 2021.  

Then we have an elite coach in Quin Snyder who took a team that was essentially built around a 13th pick in Donovan Mitchell and a 27th pick, Mike Conley, and some mid career guys in Royce O'Neal and Joe Ingles and had one of the best teams in the West.  

[Afro]

We've already seen what happens with this exact ownership group when you just try to add a bunch of good 15-20 pick players. 

It doesnt result in enough success, so they get shipped out because the roster costs to much for its results. 

If we're good, we'll get another Collins, Huerter, and JJ and that outcome would be a phenomenal hit rate. 

But again, 2/3 of those guys won't get to stick around. 

 

So in trading Trae back for our own picks....you MIGHT end up with one more JJ 4 years from now? 

[AHF]

TANKING DISCUSSION BELONGS ON ANOTHER THREAD.  PLEASE DO NOT START SPAMMING THREADS LIKE THIS WITH IT.  THE SPAM THAT HAPPENED YEARS AGO WILL NOT BE TOLERATED.

[Afro]

1 minute ago, KB21 said:

It's because those picks are available to be dealt.  OKC is the only other team that has that kind of draft capital.  My scenario with the Spurs involves us getting a young, rising, two-way player in Vassell along with the picks.  My scenario, we have Murray.  We have Vassell.  We have Johnson.  We have Bufkin.  We have Gueye.  We have Bogi.  We add, hypothetically, Sarr, Castle, and Holland to that.  You have picks in immediate future drafts in this scenario now that can either be used to consolidate talent to add better talent or you use them to continue to bring in talents like Jalen Johnson who was the 20th pick in 2021.  

Then we have an elite coach in Quin Snyder who took a team that was essentially built around a 13th pick in Donovan Mitchell and a 27th pick, Mike Conley, and some mid career guys in Royce O'Neal and Joe Ingles and had one of the best teams in the West.  

We posted at the same time lol, so my post already went over some of this. 

We've seen this before. Half of those guys are going to get shipped out for parts. That team is not good enough, unless you get lucky as hell. 

 

As for the end....that team got blown up because they couldnt win lol. To me this all seems like you're trading Trae to hopefully become a solid team like the Joe Johnson Hawks, who could not win, and who also wouldn't have been allowed to exist that long under this ownership. 

[REHawksFan]

2 minutes ago, Afro said:

So in trading Trae back for our own picks....you MIGHT end up with one more JJ 4 years from now?

I think you are missing the point.  You trade Trae for Vassell and picks.  It's not about getting our picks back. I'd rather have 4 and 8 this year and then our pick next year as insurance.  But if Trae wants out, I'd rather try to get better than just blow it up and suck for several years.  At least we know what we have in guys like DJM, JJ, Hunter, OO, Kobe, and Mo.  We add in some combination of Sarr, Holland, Castle, Shepherd, etc... and then operate from a higher floor with young players that can develop. 

It's not ideal, but what's a better option IF TRAE ASKS OUT?? 

 

[AHF]

ANYONE CONTINUING TO TALK TANKING ON THIS THREAD WILL BE GETTING A TIME OUT.  WE AREN'T GOING BACK DOWN THIS SPAM HOLE.

[Gray Mule]

Win now!  Keep this #1 pick.  Draft that 7' guy from overseas.  

Quit worrying about all those draft picks we no longer have.  Be happy with the one we have now.

If we must, replace Murray with Kobe and move on.  

With this plan, Capela and Murray gets the Hawks something in return.  

Last season's draft picks move on up to the Hawks.  Some bench players traded or released.

Not many big moves necessary in this plan and it's very possible, isn't it!!

[KB21]

With respect to those that do not want this discussion to continue, I am bowing out of it now.  

[Afro]

2 minutes ago, REHawksFan said:

I think you are missing the point.  You trade Trae for Vassell and picks.  It's not about getting our picks back. I'd rather have 4 and 8 this year and then our pick next year as insurance.  But if Trae wants out, I'd rather try to get better than just blow it up and suck for several years.  At least we know what we have in guys like DJM, JJ, Hunter, OO, Kobe, and Mo.  We add in some combination of Sarr, Holland, Castle, Shepherd, etc... and then operate from a higher floor with young players that can develop. 

It's not ideal, but what's a better option IF TRAE ASKS OUT?? 

 

Idk, that's why I am confused on why you all are laser focused on one single deal. 

But also, Trae hasn't asked out....You've had wild speculation from folks on this board, but nothing concrete. 

If your goal is to be good right now with a little bit for the future, I would think the Pels could offer more than this, and thats just one team.

 

I still have zero idea how we went from getting the #1 pick, to a fourth of this place being pissed about that, to what can we get for DJM, to let's trade Trae and hopefully build a roster(hopefully) that is full of 3rd or 4th guys. 

[KB21]

6 minutes ago, REHawksFan said:

I think you are missing the point.  You trade Trae for Vassell and picks.  It's not about getting our picks back. I'd rather have 4 and 8 this year and then our pick next year as insurance.  But if Trae wants out, I'd rather try to get better than just blow it up and suck for several years.  At least we know what we have in guys like DJM, JJ, Hunter, OO, Kobe, and Mo.  We add in some combination of Sarr, Holland, Castle, Shepherd, etc... and then operate from a higher floor with young players that can develop. 

It's not ideal, but what's a better option IF TRAE ASKS OUT?? 

 

It's damn near impossible for this team to suddenly become bad enough to be a bottom feeder as well with Jalen continuously improving, Kobe getting better, Okongwu getting better...etc.  

[Hawkish]

7 hours ago, Sothron said:

The source cleared me to reveal the name of the superstar.

It is Giannis. 

I am not saying it is going to happen but it is being discussed and it depends on if Giannis wants to come to Atlanta. This is from my source and from @NBASupes source. 

It also leaves the option to trade for BI and the team would look roughly something like:

Trae

Bogi/Kobe

Ingram/Hunter

Giannis

OO

 

The longer  version of what I've heard can come down to three options for our roster:

The above option, the "Push All The Chips In" is what I call it. We will be a  good team, no question, but with a scary future with no firsts for a long time.

 

2nd Option:

We trade Murray and AJ  to NO for BI and the Lakers 2025 unprotected first

We keep Trae. We do NOT trade for Giannis. We use the #1 pick on Sarr.

Team would be:

Trae

Bogi/Kobe

Ingram/Hunter

Sarr/either Capela or OO

 

3rd option:

We blow it all up. SAS have offered 4, 8 and all our picks back for Trae. We move him. We keep the #1 pick. We move Murray not to the Pelicans but to the Pistons or another team I've been told not to mention that has picks/young guys.

Roster would be:

(this is my postulating at possible draft results)

Reed Sheppard

Bogi/Kobe

Hunter/#8 pick in this draft

Sarr/OO

We have all our picks back as well as picks and young guys from moving Murray to either the Pistons or mystery team.

 

Which option do you guys and gal prefer? I think the 3rd option is the best one but the 2nd option is more safe. The first option MIGHT win us a title...but then we'll be in purgatory for years with no draft picks.

If someone can make a poll with these three options, please do so, you have my blessing. These are the three big scenarios the Hawks FO is discussing now and in the upcoming time to the draft.

Can we truly get Ingram AND the 2025 LA pick for DJ without giving up OO?  I realize most do not like Option 2, but I kind of do like it.

[NekiEcko]

Even though securing the first pick is a blessing, it certainly sparks a lot of debate about the team's direction. From tanking to going all-in, it's a compelling topic. The next moves by the front office will shape the future of Hawks Basketball for the next 5 to 10 years, igniting heated and passionate discussions.

Every option, including the second one, is viable. You could go all in to win the championship but at the cost of your future, play it safe but risk losing your star player, or take a gamble and hope for the best. Each path has its pros and cons, and there's no straightforward choice.

This conversation was inevitable, but with the acquisition of the pick, it's become immediate. If the Collective Bargaining Agreement weren't so restrictive and if Ressler were willing to pay the luxury tax, Option 1 might be feasible. However, I believe Option 3 is the best for the long-term health of the team. Like Boston, Denver, and Miami, we should aim for long-term success and not shy away from making deals that improve the team.

 

[Afro]

Let's just use an example, because fortunately and unfortunately the Hawks have been through all of this during this era lol. 

4 and 8 in a weak draft? Sounds like Hunter and Reddish. 

3 15-20 picks? Sounds like Collins, Huerter, and JJ

I get were talking about different players. But this era of draft had more of a hit rate than expected, so I think it's fair to compare them. 

If all these picks go exactly like this, again I think its a reasonable outcome to predict, you traded Trae for a roster that might end up having Vassell, Hunter, and JJ on it. 

 

To me, that isn't worth anywhere near Trae Young, and leaves you begging for a chance to get another Trae Young like player because that roster has a hard ceiling on it. Unless we get lucky, were trading Trae so we can build a team that maxes out as the 8 seed? 

[macdaddy]

I can't wait to hear what Trae actually wants to do.  We know win now but even the Spurs with Wemby may not be that close.   of course being close to home and playing for Pop may have a draw.  Ultimately i think or hope that he decides Atlanta has a good future. 

[KB21]

1 minute ago, Hawkish said:

Can we truly get Ingram AND the 2025 LA pick for DJ without giving up OO?  I realize most do not like Option 2, but I kind of do like it.

I'm a no on Ingram in any situation.  

[REHawksFan]

12 minutes ago, Afro said:

Idk, that's why I am confused on why you all are laser focused on one single deal. 

But also, Trae hasn't asked out....You've had wild speculation from folks on this board, but nothing concrete. 

If your goal is to be good right now with a little bit for the future, I would think the Pels could offer more than this, and thats just one team.

 

I still have zero idea how we went from getting the #1 pick, to a fourth of this place being pissed about that, to what can we get for DJM, to let's trade Trae and hopefully build a roster(hopefully) that is full of 3rd or 4th guys. 

Let me be crystal clear that I'm not advocating for blowing it up.  I'm not on the Trade Trae Train or anything of the sort.  And I'm not one of the posters that thought getting the 1st pick was a bad thing.  

My point in this discussion is IF TRAE ASKS OUT.  I think it warrants discussion because it's been presented by an insider as a possibility.  I don't think anyone is saying it's already happened.  Or even that it's definitely going to happen.  Just that it's one possible outcome from discussions with the team.  

My preference is to keep Trae and build around the 1st pick (Sarr) and JJ.  That's your big 3.  You then trade DJM because it just doesn't work with him and Trae.  You build from there.  That's the Number 1 preference.  

The discussion at hand, however, is IF TRAE DOES ASK TO BE TRADED, what do you do?  My preference there is not to blow it all up and start over but see if there is some way to salvage the good pieces that are already hear and add to them.  

We were a 10th seed playin team this year WITH TRAE.  It's not like the bar is set super high.  There's no reason to think with the right trade, we couldn't be at minimum a playin team with younger pieces that fit together and can develop over the next few years.  And at best we could be a top 6 seed with younger pieces that fit together and can develop over the next few years.  

None of the preceding is better than keeping Trae and building with him, JJ and Sarr, imo.  But it IS better than blowing up the whole dang thing.  

Edited May 15 by REHawksFan

[Afro]

4 minutes ago, REHawksFan said:

Let me be crystal clear that I'm not advocating for blowing it up.  I'm not on the Trade Trae Train or anything of the sort.  And I'm not one of the posters that thought getting the 1st pick was a bad thing.  

My point in this discussion is IF TRAE ASKS OUT.  I think it warrants discussion because it's been presented by an insider as a possibility.  I don't think anyone is saying it's already happened.  Or even that it's definitely going to happen.  Just that it's one possible outcome from discussions with the team.  

My preference is to keep Trae and build around the 1st pick (Sarr) and JJ.  That's your big 3.  You then trade DJM because it just doesn't work with him and Trae.  You build from there.  That's the Number 1 preference.  

The discussion at hand, however, is IF TRAE DOES ASK TO BE TRADED, what do you do?  My preference there is not to blow it all up and start over but see if there is some way to salvage the good pieces that are already hear and add to them.  

We were a 10th seed playin team this year WITH TRAE.  It's not like the bar is set super high.  There's no reason to think with the right trade, we could be at minimum a playin team with younger pieces that fit together and can develop over the next few years.  And at best we could be a top 6 seed with younger pieces that fit together and can develop over the next few years.  

None of the preceding is better than keeping Trae and building with him, JJ and Sarr, imo.  But it IS better than blowing up the whole dang thing.  

You're arguing something that isnt exactly what I'm talking about. 

I am specifically talking about a scenario that was laid out here. That Trae will ask out, we trade him for 4,8, and our picks, but we remain competitive after the fact. 

In that scenario we are trading Trae to the Spurs and actively trying to worsen the return we get for him by turning half of the trade package into worse 1st round picks. 

That makes no sense. 

Edited May 15 by Afro

[REHawksFan]

7 minutes ago, Afro said:

Let's just use an example, because fortunately and unfortunately the Hawks have been through all of this during this era lol. 

4 and 8 in a weak draft? Sounds like Hunter and Reddish. 

3 15-20 picks? Sounds like Collins, Huerter, and JJ

I get were talking about different players. But this era of draft had more of a hit rate than expected, so I think it's fair to compare them. 

If all these picks go exactly like this, again I think its a reasonable outcome to predict, you traded Trae for a roster that might end up having Vassell, Hunter, and JJ on it. 

 

To me, that isn't worth anywhere near Trae Young, and leaves you begging for a chance to get another Trae Young like player because that roster has a hard ceiling on it. Unless we get lucky, were trading Trae so we can build a team that maxes out as the 8 seed? 

The FO obviously has to make the right picks.  You are just assuming that we'll pick the Hunter or Reddish of the next draft.  It could also be useful pieces like Darius Garland, Cam Johnson, Coby White, Tyler Herro, Nic Claxton, Grant Williams, Daniel Gafford, Terrance Mann, etc.... These were all guys that were available to the Hawks at some point in the 2019 draft.  They could have picked any of these guys over Hunter or Reddish or Bruno.  

But more than that, we'd be starting from a higher floor with DJM, Bogi, Hunter, JJ, OO, Kobi, Mo, Vassell, Sarr all already on the team.  

[REHawksFan]

7 minutes ago, Afro said:

You're arguing something that isnt exactly what I'm talking about. 

I am specifically talking about a scenario that was laid out here. That Trae will ask out, we trade him for 4,8, and our picks, but we remain competitive after the fact. 

In that scenario we are trading Trae to the Spurs and actively trying to worsen the return we get for him by turning half of the trade package into worse 1st round picks. 

That makes no sense. 

If your argument is ONLY that we don't want our own picks back, fine.  I have no issue with that.  I take issue with the idea that if we trade Trae, we have to just blow it up and start over.  I don't believe that's the case at all.  

[NekiEcko]

11 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

I can't wait to hear what Trae actually wants to do.  We know win now but even the Spurs with Wemby may not be that close.   of course being close to home and playing for Pop may have a draw.  Ultimately i think or hope that he decides Atlanta has a good future. 

The grass isn't always greener on the other side. Moreover, it will be some time before the Western Conference isn't as fiercely competitive. Additionally, they need to recruit defenders to support Wemby/Trae, especially since Pop isn't playing either.