Five Hawks make the top 100 list from the Athletic

[AHF]

I'd rank Trae as being clearly over the following offensive focused players who ranked above him on the list:

1. Brandon Ingram - An offense only player whose total offensive contribution is not as impactful as Trae.  Good player.
2. Zion - This guy has played less than 30 games a year over the last 4 years.  (Including less than 30 games last year).  He could be healthy, but you would be foolish to bet on it given his track record.
3. Kyrie - Adding Kyrie to Dallas took them from solidly in the playoff mix to out of the playoffs last year.  Kyrie is a better shooter than Trae but not close as a playmaker.
4. Pascam Siakam - Missed the playoffs with arguably a better supporting cast last year than Trae had.  The only thing he did better than Trae last year was rebound.  Fewer points.  Lower TS%.  Fewer assists.  One of the better defenders on this list so far but definitely took a step back on that side of the court last year which is in part why I include him as "offensive focused" at this stage of his career.
5. KAT - His rough season last year was definitely worse than Trae's rough season.  Don't think he is as impactful on the team's offense as Trae is.
6. James Harden - Another whose rough season last year was worse than Trae's rough season.  His attitude is a huge risk for any team.  Unreliable in every sense of the word at this point.  Definitely still impactful on offense when he is locked in but not at Trae's level.
7. Ja Morant - Worse than Trae at everything but rebounding even in his best season.  And you have a 25 game suspension coming.  And you rank him as #21 BR?  Stop overrating this kid.
8. Jaylen Brown - Good player.  Wish we could have landed him this offseason.  But I wouldn't trade Trae for him for sure.
9. De'Aaron Fox - Good player.  Good point guard.  Not as good a point guard as Trae.
10. Jamal Murray - Good player.  Solid playmaker.  Not as good a point guard as Trae.

I didn't include Lillard or SGA or several other players because I think there are reasonable arguments on either side with them.  I wouldn't consider trading Trae for either of them so I would personally rank him higher but don't think I'd say that is "clear" like for those players I listed.

[shakes]

8 minutes ago, AHF said:

I'd rank Trae as being clearly over the following offensive focused players who ranked above him on the list:

1. Brandon Ingram - An offense only player whose total offensive contribution is not as impactful as Trae.  Good player.
2. Zion - This guy has played less than 30 games a year over the last 4 years.  (Including less than 30 games last year).  He could be healthy, but you would be foolish to bet on it given his track record.
3. Kyrie - Adding Kyrie to Dallas took them from solidly in the playoff mix to out of the playoffs last year.  Kyrie is a better shooter than Trae but not close as a playmaker.
4. Pascam Siakam - Missed the playoffs with arguably a better supporting cast last year than Trae had.  The only thing he did better than Trae last year was rebound.  Fewer points.  Lower TS%.  Fewer assists.  One of the better defenders on this list so far but definitely took a step back on that side of the court last year which is in part why I include him as "offensive focused" at this stage of his career.
5. KAT - His rough season last year was definitely worse than Trae's rough season.  Don't think he is as impactful on the team's offense as Trae is.
6. James Harden - Another whose rough season last year was worse than Trae's rough season.  His attitude is a huge risk for any team.  Unreliable in every sense of the word at this point.  Definitely still impactful on offense when he is locked in but not at Trae's level.
7. Ja Morant - Worse than Trae at everything but rebounding even in his best season.  And you have a 25 game suspension coming.  And you rank him as #21 BR?  Stop overrating this kid.
8. Jaylen Brown - Good player.  Wish we could have landed him this offseason.  But I wouldn't trade Trae for him for sure.
9. De'Aaron Fox - Good player.  Good point guard.  Not as good a point guard as Trae.
10. Jamal Murray - Good player.  Solid playmaker.  Not as good a point guard as Trae.

I didn't include Lillard or SGA or several other players because I think there are reasonable arguments on either side with them.  I wouldn't consider trading Trae for either of them so I would personally rank him higher but don't think I'd say that is "clear" like for those players I listed.

I know we disagreed yesterday, but today I'm with you 100%.

Having him that far behind guys like Fox and Morant is downright criminal.

[Spud2nique]

44 minutes ago, AHF said:

I'd rank Trae as being clearly over the following offensive focused players who ranked above him on the list:

1. Brandon Ingram - An offense only player whose total offensive contribution is not as impactful as Trae.  Good player.
2. Zion - This guy has played less than 30 games a year over the last 4 years.  (Including less than 30 games last year).  He could be healthy, but you would be foolish to bet on it given his track record.
3. Kyrie - Adding Kyrie to Dallas took them from solidly in the playoff mix to out of the playoffs last year.  Kyrie is a better shooter than Trae but not close as a playmaker.
4. Pascam Siakam - Missed the playoffs with arguably a better supporting cast last year than Trae had.  The only thing he did better than Trae last year was rebound.  Fewer points.  Lower TS%.  Fewer assists.  One of the better defenders on this list so far but definitely took a step back on that side of the court last year which is in part why I include him as "offensive focused" at this stage of his career.
5. KAT - His rough season last year was definitely worse than Trae's rough season.  Don't think he is as impactful on the team's offense as Trae is.
6. James Harden - Another whose rough season last year was worse than Trae's rough season.  His attitude is a huge risk for any team.  Unreliable in every sense of the word at this point.  Definitely still impactful on offense when he is locked in but not at Trae's level.
7. Ja Morant - Worse than Trae at everything but rebounding even in his best season.  And you have a 25 game suspension coming.  And you rank him as #21 BR?  Stop overrating this kid.
8. Jaylen Brown - Good player.  Wish we could have landed him this offseason.  But I wouldn't trade Trae for him for sure.
9. De'Aaron Fox - Good player.  Good point guard.  Not as good a point guard as Trae.
10. Jamal Murray - Good player.  Solid playmaker.  Not as good a point guard as Trae.

I didn't include Lillard or SGA or several other players because I think there are reasonable arguments on either side with them.  I wouldn't consider trading Trae for either of them so I would personally rank him higher but don't think I'd say that is "clear" like for those players I listed.

Agreed with all except Jaylen. I think if Lillard and SGA are parallel as is Brown, they should be bunched together imho.

[AHF]

17 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

Agreed with all except Jaylen. I think if Lillard and SGA are parallel as is Brown, they should be bunched together imho.

Not offensively.  Brown has 11.1 career offensive win shares over 7 seasons.  That is an average of under 1.6 per year.   Trae's rookie season was double that.  A season ago, Trae had 9.0 offensive win shares.  5.62 OWS per year >>>> 1.59 OWS per year.

Maybe I should have removed Brown from the list as being someone who isn't primarily an offensive player, though.  Brown's offense isn't that impressive compared to the people we are talking about but he might be a better defender than all of them.

[Spud2nique]

4 hours ago, AHF said:

Not offensively.  Brown has 11.1 career offensive win shares over 7 seasons.  That is an average of under 1.6 per year.   Trae's rookie season was double that.  A season ago, Trae had 9.0 offensive win shares.  5.62 OWS per year >>>> 1.59 OWS per year.

Maybe I should have removed Brown from the list as being someone who isn't primarily an offensive player, though.  Brown's offense isn't that impressive compared to the people we are talking about but he might be a better defender than all of them.

I dunno all I know is Brown isn’t that low and neither is Marcus Smart at 50 something no way. These rankers don’t factor in clutchness and being able to raise one’s game based on importance in the playoffs.

I don’t know what the analytics say about Smart either, but I want him on my side late just hounding people and making tough drives.

ps Thanks for making me defend the devil there AHF.. I see what you did. F the Celts.. and the Grizz! Latter was for you @kg01!!!