We need new Ownership.

[sturt]

19 hours ago, Diesel said:

In each instance, his only intention is to stay out of the Luxury Tax.  Regardless of what the product looks like on the floor.. Stay out of the LT.

Diesel, that had been the case previously. I think you should modify the assertion to accommodate a wider view of the spreadsheet, though.

His intention is to make sure the team is in the black, not the red.

Why that's important, of course, is that staying out of the LT may not be enough if your revenues aren't what you'd projected them to be for the current season... and that, in turn, obviously, also raises concerns about the budget for the next season.

Iow, he might very well avoid the LT in a given season, but that may not be sufficient to avoid expenses greater than income.

[macdaddy]

It's a huge misconception that a sports franchise needs to be a winner to increase in value.  This is just a billionaire yacht club and there's only 30 yachts to buy.  

This is all about the franchise in general and there are many ways to increase it's value outside of actual winning.  Centennial yards will transform the area around state farm into a party/tourist destination and the Hawks and the Benz are the anchor points.  Once this develpment is realized it will increase the Hawks value a lot and don't forget that the Resseler name is all over it.  Yeah it's his brother, i'm sure Tony won't see a dime  

And not to get political but how screwed up is it that the development of the most prime undeveloped spot in all of Atlanta gets awarded to the brother of the local franchise owner who has never worked in the city of Atlanta his whole life.  And it comes with a vault load of financial incentives.  

[AHF]

4 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

It's a huge misconception that a sports franchise needs to be a winner to increase in value.  This is just a billionaire yacht club and there's only 30 yachts to buy.  

This is all about the franchise in general and there are many ways to increase it's value outside of actual winning.  Centennial yards will transform the area around state farm into a party/tourist destination and the Hawks and the Benz are the anchor points.  Once this develpment is realized it will increase the Hawks value a lot and don't forget that the Resseler name is all over it.  Yeah it's his brother, i'm sure Tony won't see a dime  

And not to get political but how screwed up is it that the development of the most prime undeveloped spot in all of Atlanta gets awarded to the brother of the local franchise owner who has never worked in the city of Atlanta his whole life.  And it comes with a vault load of financial incentives.  

100%.  Whether we are winning or not has a small effect on the franchise value.  The vast majority of the increase in value will come from growth of the league as a whole (TV deals, etc.) and the development in Atlanta.  Franchises have been a very strong investment for a very long time.  Plenty of owners have lost money on an annual operating budget but I don't think any owner has lost money in terms of price bought versus price sold as that sale price is usually a huge gain.

[sturt]

15 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

not just recently

There truly had/has been a pattern all along. He's thrown his basketball people under the bus every time, and in the aftermath, he's consistently claimed he's learned something new that he hadn't understood before. Budcox supposedly weren't playing well together, and APR had been forced to intervene... not something he wanted to do, but their conflict forced it. Then supposedly Bud wasn't the cooperative spirit as the demoted-to-head-coach-only employee that APR had envisioned... and we had that mini-drama as Bud exited. Schlenk supposedly wasn't democratic enough in his decision-making, and APR had been forced to intervene... not something he wanted to do, but based on reports from Nick the Mole (aka, the Principal Advisor to the Governor... what a title, right?), something that was totally necessary.

Make no mistake, I'm not even suggesting (here, anyways) APR was wrong to make any move he's made... I'm rather pointing precisely, as I understand Jay doing, at APR's pattern. He sets up the organizational chart in a way that will only naturally lead to conflict that "I alone can fix"... giving him excuse to continually be in the middle of conversations he, by virtue of the evidence, wants to be in the middle of... yet sets it up this way so he has some plausible ground to claim "I'm not meddling."

 

[sturt]

5 minutes ago, AHF said:

100%.  Whether we are winning or not has a small effect on the franchise value.  The vast majority of the increase in value will come from growth of the league as a whole (TV deals, etc.) and the development in Atlanta.  Franchises have been a very strong investment for a very long time.  Plenty of owners have lost money on an annual operating budget but I don't think any owner has lost money in terms of price bought versus price sold as that sale price is usually a huge gain.

It's expensive to buy in to a company that has complete autonomy in the market, controlling the whole enchilada... aka, a monopoly... but if you can get in, it's proven to far outperform the S&P 500, for sure.

And here's the thing that sets it even farther apart...

There is practically no industry in the US economy that has zero federal government regulations imposing on its capacity to generate income.

Professional sports, as far as I'm aware, stands alone.

Most trouble you'll ever have is the occasional need to show up in DC every decade or two for a show where you have to tell a House committee how it happened that you let a rogue ref gamble, or a few players take some PEDs.

[AHF]

24 minutes ago, sturt said:

It's expensive to buy in to a company that has complete autonomy in the market, controlling the whole enchilada... aka, a monopoly... but if you can get in, it's proven to far outperform the S&P 500, for sure.

And here's the thing that sets it even farther apart...

There is practically no industry in the US economy that has zero federal government regulations imposing on its capacity to generate income.

Professional sports, as far as I'm aware, stands alone.

Most trouble you'll ever have is the occasional need to show up in DC every decade or two for a show where you have to tell a House committee how it happened that you let a rogue ref gamble, or a few players take some PEDs.

The government does much more to boost profits for sports with all kinds of subsidies, tax breaks, and handouts.

[NBASupes]

1 hour ago, sturt said:

Diesel, that had been the case previously. I think you should modify the assertion to accommodate a wider view of the spreadsheet, though.

His intention is to make sure the team is in the black, not the red.

Why that's important, of course, is that staying out of the LT may not be enough if your revenues aren't what you'd projected them to be for the current season... and that, in turn, obviously, also raises concerns about the budget for the next season.

Iow, he might very well avoid the LT in a given season, but that may not be sufficient to avoid expenses greater than income.

If you avoid the LT, the NBA gives you a big fat check for financial responsibility. 

[NBASupes]

42 minutes ago, AHF said:

100%.  Whether we are winning or not has a small effect on the franchise value.  The vast majority of the increase in value will come from growth of the league as a whole (TV deals, etc.) and the development in Atlanta.  Franchises have been a very strong investment for a very long time.  Plenty of owners have lost money on an annual operating budget but I don't think any owner has lost money in terms of price bought versus price sold as that sale price is usually a huge gain.

Tony is making great profits with the Hawks. One of the 10 most profitable franchises in the NBA but its because of Trae and the fact that we are cheap.

[AHF]

21 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Tony is making great profits with the Hawks. One of the 10 most profitable franchises in the NBA but its because of Trae and the fact that we are cheap.

Right.  That is the year by year profits.  I was talking more about the long-term valuation of team value.  That rises for teams almost regardless of how well or poorly they are run.  You get a premium for being a storied franchise but nobody is going to pay more for the TWolves than they will for the Rockets just because one team is much better than the other at that point in time.

[sturt]

1 hour ago, NBASupes said:

If you avoid the LT, the NBA gives you a big fat check for financial responsibility. 

Ummm... yes and no... you may already know this, but just so we're on the same page, it's significantly more complicated than that. Complicated enough that I can appreciate how hard Peter Antony must work to try to optimize his investment, truly.

http://cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q21

 

 

 

[sturt]

1 hour ago, NBASupes said:

One of the 10 most profitable franchises in the NBA

Hold up... where are you getting that intel?

I don't think that's published anywhere, or at least, if it is, my Google skills appear to be on the decline.

That would be an interesting list to see, so I'm actually hoping it's true, my skills are on the decline.

 

And/but yes, to the point of the conversation...

Count me as super skeptical that Tony's calm cool and collected about his spreadsheet for this season and his projected spreadsheets for future seasons... which is what drives his decisions today, of course.

[JayBirdHawk]

Luxury Tax Payments:

• Up to 50% of the tax money may be given to non-taxpaying teams. Note that there is no requirement that any of the tax money be distributed to teams in this manner.

• Any tax money not distributed to teams will be used for "league purposes." In other words, at least 50% of the tax revenue will be used for league purposes each season.

When a team surpasses the luxury tax threshold and pays the fee, the money is subsequently redistributed to other teams with lower payrolls. In addition, some of the proceeds go toward funding league initiatives, including player benefits and veteran minimum contracts.Jun 28, 2023

[sturt]

18 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Luxury Tax Payments:

• Up to 50% of the tax money may be given to non-taxpaying teams. Note that there is no requirement that any of the tax money be distributed to teams in this manner.

• Any tax money not distributed to teams will be used for "league purposes." In other words, at least 50% of the tax revenue will be used for league purposes each season.

When a team surpasses the luxury tax threshold and pays the fee, the money is subsequently redistributed to other teams with lower payrolls. In addition, some of the proceeds go toward funding league initiatives, including player benefits and veteran minimum contracts.Jun 28, 2023

 

The amount a non-taxpaying team will receive from this (optional, variable... see "may be... no requirement") component to the system is only one half of the equation, if you bother reading what Coon writes.

In other words, you may end up being owed some number as a non-taxpaying team, but the fact remains, that may be offset by how much you owe the league anyhow, based on the factors in that other half of the equation.

It's not simple. That's my point... my non-passive aggressive point.