On DJ and Our Sg Options

[Guest Walter]

DJ will get time on the court because of the team's HUGE draft day investment in him and his length when playing and willingness to play defense. His poor and inconsistent scoring, lack of aggressiveness (i.e. BHD's "sissy Euroballer" assuming BHD can stomach such a comparison to someone of color), low skill level specifically including ball-handling, etc. will keep him from being anymore than a decent starter.

As far as scoring, DJ never was remotely that at UC, he hasn't been here since, and, just for example, Dickau and Carr in addition to Dion have in fewer minutes all outscored DJ in the summer league.

As far as aggressiveness, DJ has lacked it similarly since his time at UC. Last year he shot more 3pt attempts per FGA than Hubert Davis. Only Reggie Miller shot more per FGA. DJ similarly very rarely got to the FT line (where he was normally able to convert) despite his physical gifts suggesting he should be able to create opportunities to draw fouls for himself. Both demonstrate a lack of aggression as do the nature of his TOs. Even DJ described himself as one who stood behind the 3pt line in hopes of "letting the game come to him" in a Cincinnati news article. The 3pt line is further back in the pros which doesn't bode well for the game "coming to him". DJ will have to become a different person to be the player his physical gifts suggest he could become. Whether that is too much to ask for DJ and for a #6 pick are two different questions, the later being much easier to answer "no" to.

Skill-wise DJ simply lacks variety to his offensive game. From ball-handling to moving without the ball to shooting from anywhere other than behind the 3pt line, DJ is either severely underdeveloped or just not going to develop. He is a poor to average percent shooting, 3pt specialist by choice and not by physical ability. Some of this was by design as he is simply overmatched skill-wise when he tries to do much more.

On the plus side, DJ has managed to get in the gym this offseason and reportedly gain 10-15 Lbs from his end of the season weight which was undoubtedly lower than his season starting weight. This suggests that DJ might be around 205-208 Lbs (unless someone has an official weight on DJ). Still, DJ's length maintains that he needs more strength as a simple hieght to weight chart does not even begin to consider his extrordinary arm length.

While it was Newble's defensive intensity that altered the team's perimeter defense from horrible to decent, DJ has shown the willingness to play defense and the length to play it well. He should continue to improve given he doesn't begin to lack defensive intensity alah Dion Glover did as the season progressed last year.

Also, however bad DJ is playing this summer he played worse last summer and the summer before that.

Right now Dion and maybe even a player like Carr appear as DJ insurance. This is not something you should ever have to "take out" on a #6 pick but we need it. Maybe it's even the otherway around and DJ is the insurance for Dion. In either case, WE NEED THE INSURANCE at the Sg position. Thus, I suggest not trading either DJ or Dion unless the deal in return is overwhelmingly good. It does remain dissappointing to me that we still have to question the prospects for our Sgs, particularly one picked #6. This coming 3rd year will tell perhaps more than any one year in their development.

Coincidentally, while I have never been an advocate for DJ, seeing him as a bigger question mark than talent as a #6 pick, I do see DJ and DG as good compliments to each other on the court. Their games would seem to play off of each other well. Hopefully these two will make it so the coaching staff can bank on that starting rotation option a good deal. If nothing else, hopefully at least one pans out at or near their projected level of performance.

Also, who here thinks Carr will make the team as additional Sg insurance (and would Email be cut to make room)?

We aren't likely to get the One-player-away help from outside the organization. We need someone from within to step up. I've expressed my opinion on DJ's ability to be that player and to some extent DGs and more importanly the likelihood of them doing so. I know my opinion on DJ is an unpopular one but until he does so it will not be wrong and until either he or DG does so we as a team look to remain one-player-away.

W

[capstone21]

DJ is a player who needs to get fed the ball. In the summer league that is not going to show because it is a place where all of these FAs (most who have no chance) are trying to get a contract. Therefore they have to show what they got to offer a team. Summer League is not a team effort where players play their defined roles. Its more of a pickup game where everyone is out there trying their best to get on the score sheet. DJ like Theo are just here to work on their game and show they are committed to the team. Glover is here to show he belongs and DD is here to get acclimated to the game. The rest are just filler for the roster. Because of the type game that the summer league plays, I don't think it is somewhere with DJs type of game is going to thrive. He needs a team game. Come season start I think you will surprised the things DJ has got to offer.

[KB21]

Because this summer league Hawks team did indeed play as a team. That's the main reason they went 6-0 and won the Shaw tournament.

A perfect example is today. Dion's shot was off. DerMarr and Mario Bennett were shooting well. Dion picks up 7 assists today. Dan Dickau gets 5 assists in 15 minutes of play.

Showcasing talent may have been the case for some other teams, but this team did play as a team in this particular tournament.

If Dion had wanted to, he could have gone for 30+ points in every game of this tournament.

I think Mario Bennett and Chris Carr earned invitations to training camp.

[Admin]

I agree KB. I am really high on Bennett. He is a little bit lanky and even a little awkward down low, but there is no denying his talent. I really like him and I think he will find a place in this league, if we dont give him a chance. I really like Carr too as he could be a good player off the bench. I would certainly give Email his walking papers to bring in another guard to replace him.

JayWalker says that Muss told him that Haslem is the only one with a shot at making the team though unfortunately. If it came down to the two I would much rather have Bennett because we need size more than we need scoring. If we trade Nazr maybe then Bennett finds a spot, or if CC starts the season off on the IR, maybe thats what happens.

17 points 10 boards 2 blocks, thats pretty darn good. Bennett had a very solid tournament all around, with only one down game that I can remember.

[Guest Walter]

If DJ has to be fed the ball I think that means he can't create his own shot. I can't begin to think how a swing player who can't create his own shot lives up to a #6 pick draft status. Whether I'm "suprised" once the season starts depends upon whether DJ can and does learn and use this skill. Right now, we have Newble who specializes in put backs and cuts and is efficient, DJ in 3pters (although his average last year wasn't that good), and DG who creates his own shot or scoring opportunities himself (but is improving on the perimeter). Too bad we can't put 2 of them if not all 3 together.

Regardless, I understand the point that summerleague play favors those who can create their own shot and are aggressive enough to do so. However, we have a Pg on the team trying hard to show his Pging skills (which would include creating for others).

...

In reply to:

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"DJ is like Theo...to work on their game and show they are committed to the team"?!?

---

DJ is nothing like Theo. Their situations are entirely dissimilar! ENTIRELY!

W

[Gray Mule]

If Walter had control of one team and he had DerMarr

on his team and Diesel had control of another team

and he had Theo Ratliff on his team, then these two

would agree 100 % to trade with each other.

It wouldn't make any difference what the needs of their

respective teams were, they would just be happy to git

rid of these respective players.

Diesel would want DerMarr and Walter would want TR.

This would make these two happy!!

Seriously, DerMarr will be much better this year and I

expect TR to play a lot.

Gray Mule

[Traceman]

eyes! Did you read the recap from the last game? Sounds like he was aggressive to me. 20 pts and 9 boards? "Scored on a driving layup?" "Got fouled and went to the line?" Those things all indicate aggression. In addition, despite the fact that he is shooting very well from 3 point land this summer, 7 of his 8 fgs were 2's. Sounds pretty damn aggressive to me!

In addition, you only grudgingly give DJ credit for his improvement over his past summer league performances. He was CLEARLY much better this summer. He not only played great D but his shooting improved as well. He shot the ball FAR better than DD did despite the fact that everyone seems to be raving about how great DD looked. Look at their shooting stats:

DJ - 29-67 fgs (43%), 9-21 3pfgs (43%), 13.8 ppg

DD* - 16-44 fgs (36%), 6-25 3pfgs (24%), 8.7 ppg

*DD also averaged 5.2 apg and 3.2 topg.

Are DJ's stats really that bad? I certainly don't think so. In fact, take out his one bad game (out of five) and his stats were:

DJ - 25-54 fgs (46%), 9-17 3pfgs (53%), 14.8 ppg

DJ CAN create his own shot, he just has a hard finishing right now. There is a significant difference between not being able to finish and not being able to create the space to get the shot off. As DJ continues to develop, he will begin to finish plays rather than creating the space and missing the shot.

I am VERY encouraged by DJ's play in the summer league. He obviously did a good job on D today as well and he put up some impressive numbers. I think its GREAT that he ended the summer league on a high note. Hopefully it will give him confidence and inpsire him to continue the hard work that he has obviously put in over the summer.

PS - He has CLEARLY gained weight. 205 after gaining a reported 15 lbs? Come on Walter! He's AT LEAST 210 and he may be bigger than that. At any rate, he's clearly stronger than he was and it has translated into improved play on the court.

[Admin]

I would actually say that DJ doesnt have a problem finishing. I think his big problem is getting to the finish. He cant dribble to save his life and he has absolutely no crossover. He can shoot the lights out from deep when he is on and can finish with a dunk over anyone in the league, but its that inbetween that kills him. If he ever learns to dribble the NBA better watch out because he will be dangerous.

[coachx]

Nique was one of the best of all time creating his own shot. His one hop spin move had the explosiveness of a scud missle. Once guys saw it they would play Nique to spin off to the left, Nique answer was to spin to the right, he was a master of getting his man to lean one way so he could spin off the other way.

Glover's game mirrors that of Nique's, probably b/c Glover grew up in Atlanta watching Nique.

It would seem Nique could really help DJ get a few pattened moves or at least he should have learned some stuff playing vs Glover in team scrimmages.

DJ often times stands to up right when he dribbles to the hole.

Nique knew how to get down low to make his move to the paint and then explode in the air. Glover has done a good job of mimicing this, DJ should too.

How many of you are excited about seein Damien Wilkens {Nique's nephew, Gerald's son}, play for the Bulldogs this year.

He and Jarvis Hayse may be the 2 best players in the SEC next year, Ezra Williams isn't too shabby either and Wright may be the best pg in the SEC. Too bad the Dawgs lack a center, I hope the 7' 290 lb guy they recruited from Oklahoma can get his grades up and enroll in the winter.

[Hawksfreak]

If Emuss leaves and Alex gets the job at Denver we need to hire Nique becuase has easy ways to get players to understand his moves and how you do them.

[Guest Walter]

1) First, the last game recap was not available to me at the time of my writing the post. However, it does not change much as no one (summer league) game should.

2) The fact that DJ shot 7 of 8 FGs from 2 is the exception and not the rule. Last year he shot more 3pt attempts per FGA than Hubert Davis and was only "beat out" by Reggie Miller. This is a whole, regular season in which he did so and not one, summer league game in which he didn't.

3) If A #6 PICK, DJ with 2+ years of NBA experience, familiarity with the system, and an easier position to learn can't have better statistics than a #29 pick, no one could. DD has played better this year than DJ did in his other two years. AND WHY DIDN'T YOU MENTION DJ'S ASSISTS, TOs, and A/TO RATIO (EVEN THIS YEAR) WHEN YOU DID FOR DD?

4) DJ can't create his own shot. Dolfan deals with this issue well enough below. DJ can finish but he never moves without the ball, he can't dribble well enough, and he lacks the aggression to utilize his athleticism. As far as the space necessary to get his shot off...He's 6'9", how much space does he need in the face of 6'4" Sgs?

5)

In reply to:

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"PS - He has CLEARLY gained weight. 205 after gaining a reported 15 lbs? Come on Walter! He's AT LEAST 210 and he may be bigger than that. At any rate, he's clearly stronger than he was and it has translated into improved play on the court."

---

I agree that DJ has gained weight but he ended the season before at 186 Lbs. I don't know what he ended this season weighing but it d@mn sure wasn't as much as the 201 Lbs he officially wtarted with. The likelihood was a loss of around 10 Lbs of weight over the season (A decrease of 5 Lbs lost due to the reported help from SAR regarding how to better eat). Also, the reports have DJ gaining 10 to 15 Lbs. In order for him to be "AT LEAST 210 and he may be bigger than that" (which is only 2 Lbs heavier than the height of my range between 205-208) DJ would have had to at least weigh 195 at the end of the year (9 Lbs more than he did the end of the year prior) and gain a full 15 Lbs JUST to weigh 210. Not impossible but less likely than the weights I described. Yes, he has gained weight by all reports and the weight appears to already have and will undoubtedly continue to help him.

This is the year of the potential being actual. Both DG and DJ have to suck up the excuses of youth and inexperience and PRODUCE! I have greater hopes that DG will bring defensive intensity than DJ will develop the skills, have the aggression, and be the scorer he can be. Of course, if DJ does 1 of those eh will be a better player than he is and will represent a decent starter. More? I just don't think it can be expected from DJ while it should be if not have been demanded from a #6 pick.

W

[Dickau12]

I wonder how much Mussleman helped his chances of getting the GS job by coaching as well as he did in the summer league. If Muss leaves I wonder if the Hawks would even look at 'Nique to fill the vacant position. I know that "Nique really wants to get into coaching or GM job. But I really don't know why 'Nique sticks aruond. For some reason the Hawks love to screw former players. There is no reason why 'Nique shouldn't be considered for a coaching job with the Hawks. Just seems to me that a young player would benefit more from 'Nique than they would for someone like Steve Henson. Eventually he will have to leave to get a coaching job.

[chillzatl]

I don't think you can look at what DJ did at college or what he's done up till now and say "he is this type of player". I mean the kid is young. No highschool kid knows his game well enough to project it to the NBA level. There are lots of guys who were slashers in college and highschool and just can't do it in the NBA due to speed/size issues. I can totally understand why DJ didn't/doesn't go to the hole all that much. He just can't take the contact. Mugsy bogues could push him around for god sakes.

I know diesel likes to project DJ to be a certain kind of player and blames the coaches for him not living up to it. But you look at his body and his experience playing the game and you can't really say that he's this kind of player or that. I think he was brought in partly because of that. He has the tools and ability to be molded into a successful NBA player. Many people like Diesel see his body type and some of those attributes that I mentioned and instantly label him like other players with similar attributes. But that's not realistic to expect or fair to DJ. Sure he can jump out of the building, that doesn't mean he has the mental toughness to get to the hole and deliver. The scouting reports on him in college never mentioned his ability to get to the basket. They talked about his "sweet shot" and his jumping ability. That doesn't mean we have someone with a `Nique like mindset about getting to the basket.

That said I see no reason to think that he will be a bust. He just needs to be given more time to mold his game. In my book he is a year behind on his development anyway. His first year he wasn't used enough, period. They should have started focusing his game then, instead of expecting him to do it for them. I do expect him to be a better player this year. Though it may not be the type of game some of us expect from him simply because of the way he is built.

[Diesel]

I would have thought from last yr that Walter would realize that Pickup games... I mean summer league means nothing. ASK RAJA BELL.

[Hawksfreak]

Yea Steve Henson is a good friend of Lon's he will probably get a job here.

[coachx]

I am not saying Nique should be a coach.

But Pete and Stan said a few weeks ago that Nique would be taking more of role in player development, particularly with the young guys. I don't know how mush he would help on the bench during a 20 second time out when a quick out of bounds pplay must be drawn up and new defensive scheme expressesed {zone, press, man}.

Nique could help in player development though. Particularly by helping players by spending one on one time with them, and teaching the finer points of the game on an individual bases.

Being on a coaching staff take amazing patience and a gift for communicating. Everyone must be catered to in a different way. It is no longer the Bob Knight school of B-ball. There are young kids making alot of money, some have attitudes some don't. But it takes a skill to communicate and be respected by the 21 yeear old rookie and the 39 year old veteran.

That is why Mahorn is gone. I think he specialized in just one area post play.

[Traceman]

see it or not.

1) One game DOESN'T mean anything. As I said in my post, DJ had FIVE good games and one bad game. Coach Musselman was VERY happy with DJ's play in the summer league and so was I.

2) Even if that is true, the fact that he played a game in the fashion that you seem to think he SHOULD be playing ought to mean something to you. YOu rail on DJ for shooting too many 3's (despite the fact that he shot 43% from behind the arc for the summer and 53% from behind the arc excluding his one bad game) yet when he plays aggressive and goes to the hole, rather than see that as progress, you would prefer to see it as an anomaly.

3) As far as DD goes, he's OLDER than DJ is now! He might not have 2 years of NBA experience but he has a hell of a lot more basketball experience than DJ does. DJ should be a senior in college THIS year. Comparing him now to DD now is a LOT closer to being fair than comparing DD now to DJ as a rookie. I didn't mention DJ's Asst/TO ratio because it's was not an issue. I only mentioned it for DD because YOU said he was trying to prove that he could distribute the ball. I was actually trying to show that he WAS trying to distribute the ball thus it was understandable that DJ would score more. Still doesn't quite explain the less than stellar shooting percentage (His percentages actually looked a lot like DJ's past summer league percentages).

In addition, DJ was not drafted #6 overall because he WAS good then, he was drafted #6 overall for what he MIGHT be in a year or so. You keep throwing that up in his face but he wasn't ready to compete at the NBA level when he was drafted (as DD supposedly is). Babs said it was going to be AT LEAST 3 years before we knew what DJ could be. What's so funny though is that you keep talking about how great DJ should be as a #6 pick but the truth is that being drafted #6 does not even come close to guaranteeing stardom. Look at the #6 picks since 1990:

Felton Sencer

Doug Smith

Tom Gugliotta

Calbert Cheaney

Sharone Wright

Bryant Reeves

Antoine Walker

Ron Mercer

Robert Traylor

Wally Sczerbiak

DJ

Battier

Wagner

Two All Stars out of 13 (15%). No more than half of those guys were even decent players but you act like DJ was a number one overall pick. Besides, DJ's class is arguably the least talented draft class EVER. There is some potential there but I don't see any surefire superstars in the whole class.

4) I hope you're right about DJ being able to finish but that is where I think he needs the most work. He can get to the rim but he is not that great at finishing when he does. YET. He can also lose his defender with his crossover or with a spin move but when he comes out of the move, he has a hard time gathering himself and converting on the shot. For example, in the game televised on ESPN, he made a great spin move in the lane only to shoot a 6 foot jumper 5 feet. He DOES need to continue to work on moving without the ball. As far as getting his shot off, he has worked VERY hard to shoot the ball with a quicker motion but when he first came in the league, his shot was so slow that it got blocked a lot.

5) BS! You don't know what DJ weighed at the end of last season! You are just taking the word of Curtis Bunn who is perhaps the most uninformed so-called source in the history of team sports. REGARDLESS of what DJ weighs, he has CLEARLY worked hard to improve his game and to improve his strength.

Finally, I hope to see more from DG & DJ this year too but DJ and DG are at different stages of their development. DG has a full season of NBA experience on DJ plus DG is already physically strong enough to be one of the stronger players at his position. It would not surprise me at all if DG started to live up to his potential first because he SHOULD be further along in his development. As far as DJ being a great scorer goes, I don't know about that. It depends on what you consider great. If he reaches a point in his career where he averages 18-20 ppg, that will be great. I think what will make him special is the fact that he is going to be a very good all around player. DG on the otherhand, could EASILY average that much in the right situation and it wouldn't surprise me in the least. If DG can improve the other parts of his game, particularly his D, and if he can stay healthy, he could be a very special player. As I said earlier in the post, DJ's draft position didn't guarantee ANYTHING so the fact that you keep harping on it means nothing. There MAY be one or two players drafted below him who turn out to be better players but I think when everything is all said and done, he will be one of the best players in his draft class.

[jaywalker72]

I think Slim gets hit because he is not what we pictured him to be, which in some minds was the next McGrady or Pippen or whatever.

He is still 22 and if the improvements he has made is any indication, the are better things to come.

He understands that it's not given to him, and that he has to earn the coaches confidence.

Glover is 23, Slim 22, Dickau 23, and Terry and Reef 25.

It amazing how young our team is and the amount of learning they have already endured.

These guys won't get the respect until they start winning, which is another thing they are learning the hard way.

It's not enough for people that you are trying, you must show results.

I only hope people give them the proper credit when they do...

[Gray Mule]

Amen! Youth must learn - It is not the same game that

they played in high school or college. Time is on our

side. These young players will continue to get better,

along with our young coach.

Keeping everyone together and moving in the right

direction is the real goal right now with all the youth

on the Hawks. We have NO old veterans projected to

be starters on this team. The ones we have will be

coming off the bench, unless they can beat these young

dudes and take their position away from them,

Gray Mule

[BlackHawkDown]

Lets allow DJ to play I have seen some glimpses of greatness. If we allow DJ, DG and Leon some time I think they will at worst become above average trade bait. See Walter when you make good suggestions I agree with you.

Walter I dont know why you brought me into your editorial. But I will say 3 things In responce

1) This isn't 1900 you can say African American " Player of Color" what is that some crap from a minstral show"

2) I'm sorry I dont dote over every white player in the league. I'll start saying Matt Geiger and Todd McCullough are great if it makes you happy.

3) Why are you so interested in race/basketball I come here to talk about basketall not why I hate sissyballers.

Look Point blank if someone thinks I have a problem with White players let me know why the players I dismissed where all scrubs, save Dirk, Who is good but way over-rated. Dirk is not nor will ever be top 10. Anyway I didn't appreciate your comment Walter it was just plain unnecessary.

TRUCE