I Can't Take It Any Longer---Time 2 Call Them Out

[SayStar1]

BK - First let me say that I like what he did in ridding the team of it's high salary non producing players...His first mistake was signing Collier and Drobs. His 2nd was hiring Mike Woodson (Mike Brown would have been a better choice) and not Mike Fratello. Fratello would have been the ideal choice. The Hawks were and still are loosing their fan base. Mike Fratello would have put a buzz back in Hawk Basketball and energized the city. He knows how to coach to a teams strengths and weakneses. We did not need an experiment at this stage of the game. Woodson is not delivering on what Knight promised us during the press conference (see quote below). I feel like tension is present in the organization. Nique wanted to bring Fratello back and stated as much prior to being hired in current position

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"Fans will see the same level of intensity he displayed on the court as an opponent of mine, a teammate of mine and as an assistant coach. We'll be well prepared and compete hard every night on both ends of the floor as he takes our team to another level. Mike will represent our organization very well and I look forward to working with him."

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Mike Woodson - I honestly feel like he doesn't have a clue as to how to utilize the talent available. He rides the AW train to no end and believe it has cost him the respect of this team. AW is allowed to throw up wild shots and play out of control. We see no defensive sets or rotation on most nights. He stated during his press conference that he would just let the offense take care of itself and focus on defense (translation: I have no offensive sets to run...I won't teach it we'll just play defense and hope for transitions basket). I knew from that moment we were going to be in trouble. He's not going to put guys in a position to succeed. He's also a Larry Brown disciple meaning no playing time for rookies (he's played Childress, Ivey, and Smoove because he had no other choice). I predict his and BK's fate are tied together and if this team doesn't show improvement soon both will be gone.

AW - One of the most selfish players in the league. I don't care how many points he score on a nightly basis, I don't care how many assists he dishes out, or rebounds he gets..this guy does not make the players around him better. His game at times is out of control...I believe he causes stagnation in the offense and our rookies have lost respect for him. I watched the looks on their faces as he has refused to pass the ball while they were wide open only to chuck up a wild shot. Yeah I know they've struggled some with their shooting but they won't get better if he doesn't allow them the opportunity to garner success. Maybe he lacks confidence in them but a true team leader would encourage them to become better. A team is only as strong as their weakest link.

I just had to get this off my chest. I've been a fan for 30 years and a member of this board since it's inception when Stu started it. Actually I migrated from the old AJC Board with Diesel, Walter, Stu, KB21 and a couple of others. I read this board every day but don't post anymore just enjoy reading all the other comments but I couldn't take it anymore--to many lows (loosing to the Bobcats, getting blown out by the Wizards, 2-13 worst start in Franchise history) I thought the Babcock era was over!

[bballfan]

You have been a member of this board for 3 years and you only have 2 posts? lol

Anyway I don't agree with you. I am sick of the Walker bashing. Every single game he has been passing to his teammates trying to make them better and every single time they have jacked up the shots you accuse him of jacking up and have missed them.

Look at the box score tonight. Look at the % of everyone for this game.

Walker was 8 for 23 but 3 of those shots were him working on a missed shot off offensive rebounds. The game was over

and he was on the bench 2 minutes into the 4th (aprox)

How mnay times did he pass the ball tonight that Harrington, and the rookies missed a wide open shot. It happened a lot. After the team was down by 30 points then Walker took some shots he probably should not have taken but how many times did he have to get burned passing the ball before he tried to do it himself?

[bballfan]

You are doing what everyone does when a team can't win. You are blaming the money players well in this case you are wrong. If anyone on this team besdies Walker could hit a shot they would have the ball in their hands and the opportunity to shoot it.

The rookies are part of the reason and a big part on why this team isn't winning. Unless they play better they don't deserve to have the ball passed to them.

[Blunt91]

The main reason we are losing games is the same reason we lost games last year with JT and the crew and that is we can't play man to man defense. The opposing teams just seem to get right by our guys and make their way to the basket with ease. I knew that it was going to be a long night when Jason Collier allowed Brendan Haywood to get good postion under the goal for a easy lob pass that led to an easy 2points. Our denfense is weak every where but especially at the center position. Collier and Drobs are too soft and unathletic and Kevin Willis is just too old and slow. I don't understand why Woodsen doesn't play MCcoy more? He isn't the answer but he would help. I use to think we needed to trade Diaw along with Walker but now I say it needs to be Jason Collier that is package with Toine to got to another team.

[Employee8]

SayStar1,

You know....I could go around saying that I've been a member or a fan of such-and-such for 20 years and no one would dispute that 'cause no one WOULD KNOW.

In other words, I couldn't accuse you of lying about you being a long-time fan 'cause frankly, I don't know.

What I DO know is that if You think ANTOINE is Selfish, THEN YOU BETTER SURE AS HELL INCLUDE AL HARRINGTON IN THAT REGARD, TOO!

TOO MANY TIMES THIS SEASON, I HAVE SEEN AL *NOT* PASS THE BALL WHEN HE IS TRIPLE-TEAMED. Walker, at least, PASSES THE BALL.

And how would *you* know how the rookies feel about Walker or about ANY TEAMMATE for that matter? What are you...some kind of Empath like that Troi-person from Star Trek? GIVE ME A BREAK!

Besides, if the Rooks give Walker a REASON to pass them the ball(like say one of them recently made a Jumpshot from a previous possession), then Walker will try to find him for another attempt. WALKER IS NOT GOING TO KEEP PASSING THE BALL TO PLAYERS WHO CONTINUOUSLY BUILD BRICK-HOUSES(If you understand what I'm saying)!!

That's not being Selfish, THAT'S BEING SMART. So don't give me that SELFISH SH*T, ALRIGHT?

[Kaviar1]

Good to hear from someone around here who knows something about the NBA from time to time. The people you mentoned do not post much any more, along with Traceman and others. Just like the overall quality of the NBA, the overall quality and age of this Board has gone down. That would be OK if they were open to more knowledgeable posters such as yourself and the ones mentioned, but they are not, thus this Board is getting to be a bore.

They have already made a sport for people who are obsessed with statistics, and that's Baseball. The NBA is plyed in 3D compared to MLB being plyed in 2D. My point is for the Stat Mongerers, don't worry about Walker's pretty boxscores, watch the overall flow of the game and how he makes his team better around him, like you suggested.

Here's an interesting Stat though: Walker has the worst +/- rating when on the floor, of anyone in the NBA.

[Plainview1981]

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You have been a member of this board for 3 years and you only have 2 posts? lol

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He's been around a long time. He posted mainly on the

other board over at ezboard before it was moved here

a while ago. I think Walker wants to be a superstar

but the problem is that he simply is not at that

level. They say every real superstar has alittle bit

of selfishness in them. Sometimes Walker makes unselfish

plays and sometimes he just decides to take shots including

bad ones. I've said some good and bad things about Walker..

but if we was winning this wouldn't even come up most

likely. Is it fair to blame Walker completely on such a

untalented roster? I blame him when he does bad things,

but it's FAR from all his fault. Frankly, I consider AL

Harrington to be worse. He is a real black hole on the

Hawks team and he really hasn't proved that he is a legit

2nd option.

[KBatPCSOM]

I'm not going to call you out on your opinion, but I think a little patience needs to be exhibited here. It is far too early to determine if hiring Mike Woodson was the right move. I, personaly, think it was the right move, and since it was made, you have to stick with it. You can't get into a situation where you are changing coaches every year.

There is still a plan in place for future success, and Billy Knight stated that this was not going to be a quick turn around. He compared it to a ship turning around at sea. Billy wants to do this right, and he's not going to make snap, knee jerk decisions.

Right now, this just isn't a very good team. I don't think that is the coaches' fault. Mike wants this team to be a strong defensive team, and they simply aren't playing defense the way he wants them to play defense. Unlike the last couple of coaches, Mike at least understands that he needs one of his top two offensive producers on the floor at all times, even if they are forcing things and not producing as expected.

[Employee8]

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You have been a member of this board for 3 years and you only have 2 posts? lol

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He's been around a long time. He posted mainly on the

other board over at ezboard before it was moved here

a while ago. I think Walker wants to be a superstar

but the problem is that he simply is not at that

level. They say every real superstar has alittle bit

of selfishness in them. Sometimes Walker makes unselfish

plays and sometimes he just decides to take shots including

bad ones. I've said some good and bad things about Walker..

but if we was winning this wouldn't even come up most

likely. Is it fair to blame Walker completely on such a

untalented roster? I blame him when he does bad things,

but it's FAR from all his fault. Frankly, I consider AL

Harrington to be worse. He is a real black hole on the

Hawks team and he really hasn't proved that he is a legit

2nd option.

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THANK YOU VERY MUCH, Hotlanta.

It's like this SayStar1 person thinks Walker is the only player in the NBA who has some bit of selfishness in him and everyone else is exempt....Nice to see that there are indeed Knowledgeable posters such as yourself who *don't* KNEE-JERK like a certain poster with 2 posts and look at things objectively.

I've supported Walker and yes, I've seen him do some dumb things....but that shouldn't excuse anyone else(especially AL Harrington) from "hateful" criticism...

By the way, Kaviar? Haven't seen you post much here either. And since Hotlanta says that SayStar1 is the real deal, then I believe him. How long have you been a fan, Kaviar? Just a question.

[Plainview1981]

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Knowledgeable posters such as yourself who *don't* KNEE-JERK like a certain poster with 2 posts and look at things objectively.

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Oh, I've said plenty of things over the years that I now

wish I hadn't said. I've restrained myself more so far

this year for the most part. I've said alot of bad things

about Walker in the past.... To me Walker is a enigma..

In some ways he can look so good, but other he looks so

bad... He can make some really good decisions and make a

really bad one the following play.

The key to it is knowing when and when not to be selfish.

I'm pretty sure Say is the guy that how the avatar of

Nique dunking.

[Kaviar1]

Thanks for asking Employee #8. Actually I go way back with the Hawks, I used to cover them and sports for the biggest radio station in town during the late 70s & early 80s (I was going to college at the time).

I still follow their progress from afar now. I'm more of a Cavs fan with the Hawks a close second, hence the name Kaviar (used to post under Caviar and other names as well).

Let me just say this though, I agree with SayStar1 100% on Walker, but I really like Billy Knight. He needs to stay and rebuild this franchise whether he does it with Woodson or not.

[bballfan]

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You have been a member of this board for 3 years and you only have 2 posts? lol

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He's been around a long time. He posted mainly on the

other board over at ezboard before it was moved here

a while ago. I think Walker wants to be a superstar

but the problem is that he simply is not at that

level. They say every real superstar has alittle bit

of selfishness in them. Sometimes Walker makes unselfish

plays and sometimes he just decides to take shots including

bad ones. I've said some good and bad things about Walker..

but if we was winning this wouldn't even come up most

likely. Is it fair to blame Walker completely on such a

untalented roster? I blame him when he does bad things,

but it's FAR from all his fault. Frankly, I consider AL

Harrington to be worse. He is a real black hole on the

Hawks team and he really hasn't proved that he is a legit

2nd option.

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Your post was very fair hotlanta and I don't mean to say Antoine is perfect. I know he isn't but he continuely gets the blame everywhere he plays and it isn't fair.

Someone above mentioned plus/minus and I don't know who does that stat but I am calling him out and saying he does't do his job. I have watched every game and to say when Walker is on the court the team doesn't score as much just isn't true.

Last night is a good example why plus/minus is a joke. Walker went out of the game and so did the Wizards starters. We kept Al harrington in the game and he and our bench beat the Wizards 3rd string and got the score down. Walker wasn't on the court and the score was closer but it never took into account that Walker and the Wizards starters were all off the floor.

[Employee8]

Well I guess we will have to agree to disagree on the Walker issue, kaviar.

Is Walker a go-to guy? No. Is he selfish? at times, yes. but he does *TRY* to get others involved.

I mean...name me one player in this league that ISN'T Selfish??

[Diesel]

Yep...

It's time to call em out.

I believe that Woodson or Brown or Casey would have been a temporary coach. I think the Owners wanted new blood and BK needed somebody who could coach young players, not get in his way while he brought in the talent he wanted. I don't think we will see a Bernie Bickerstaff, Greg Poppovich like takeover from BK, but I think BK will get the players he wants here.

I have mixed feelings on Walker...

I think he's a temp player... However, I think if BK can sign him for cheaply, we will resign.

I get the feeling that if we can't make a good trade by Midseason... We will resign Walker and trade him later. The midseason team that may want Walker is LAL... It would probably involve: Butler/Grant/1st for Walker/Delk...

The question is: Would you do it?

The other team that may have an interest is Philly of course.

I think they'd give up Dalembert.. Hell, He's not even playing these days. Probably with Big Glenn...

[Russ]

Been there with you and the others.

We have watched this franchise from John Drew, Nique, Rounds, Tree and others. In my opinion the NBA has really changed over the past 20 years and not for the better. Most players today are pampered from high school and it appears all they care about is the hype and how they look on the court.

I read this board everyday and I must say with the decline of this franchise things are going to be this way for a while. What did Billy Knight do in Vancouver? I don't necessarily have a problem with Woodson BUT Fratello would have been a much better choice.

You can have 3, 5 year plans or whatever but this is a business. If you don't put butts in the seats there will be a problem at the ownership level. While I don't agree much with Ted Turner on life or politics, when he owned the franchise things happened. I thought with Kasten gone we could see a quicker improvement.

As I have said time and time again this team will have to be built through the draft and smart trades, very good players will not sign free agent contracts with a franchise that is floundering like the Hawks.

I simply do not think this team is going in the right direction.

Only time will tell though!

[Sage11]

If something does not change fast, Walker is gone; it only a matter of time. I think people are forgetting the difficulty we had signing free agents in the off season; no good player really wanted to play here; Walker and Harrington were all we could muster despite having the deepest pockets. I agree that the team is playing bad, but I still think it is early.

[Diesel]

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I think people are forgetting the difficulty we had signing free agents in the off season; no good player really wanted to play here; Walker and Harrington were all we could muster despite having the deepest pockets.

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The way we got Harrington is by trading a player that was a free agent in a SNT.

I think it depends on what kind of Deals are offered for Walker. Like the Lakers might send Brian Grant and other teams might send their unwanted contracts. It would be better for us to resign Walker then trade him.

[Employee8]

What if Philly offered Dalembert and a draft pick to us for him?

[Diesel]

I doubt that Philly would give that much for an unsigned Walker. I think that O'Brien probably would love to have Walker, but Walker is in the last year of his contract and giving up future for a 6 month stint will not be to their liking...

However, Dog/Dalembert for Walker would probably be the deal that they will send out.

My question is this...

How good is Dalembert. I think I'd rather wait til Swift is a FA...

[JTFan31]

Is ok being selfish if you are putting the team is position for wins. Walker is a ball hog and so is Harrington, they ar both hogging the ball, and forcing shots and forcing drives with 3 guys on them. I blame Woody with his offensive plays and defensive schemes. Plays need to be called more for other players in the team. Another player that is very selfish is Delk, he is another one that is forcing drives and turning the ball over. This offense is stagnant and there is too much one on one play.