The Hawks have to market this kid!!

[Plainview1981]

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Honestly, JR Smith and Bird man looked like Albert and Costello out there.

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That first dunk JR Smith did was pretty d@mn good. It just

took more than one try.

[emeans]

It all depends on the makeup of this team next year. With Walker and Harrington sucking up balls like pac-man he doesn't have the number of attempts to really make a dent on the scorecard. He should at least be averaging 10ppg this year. Him being a rookie and the team rotation, coaching, makeup, etc. has a lot to do with how much this kid will grow as a complete basketball player. Confidence and experience will help him out tremendously. The more he plays the better he will get and lookout...the sky is the limit!!

If Walker or Harrington is not here next year and Woodson starts to get a clue, he will at least double his ppg guaranteed.

In 3 years he will be phenomenal from the outside and inside!!

[cyman3]

if JR SMITH got that first dunk on 1 try, then thats a 50.

I felt soo BAD for chris anderson. He could have been better prepared for this dunk contest. The guys (like Charles) gave him a hard time.

Im glad JOSH SMITH won it. He was HANDS DOWN, the best dunker of the group. But the competition was kinda weak. JR SMITH is a very creative dunker, very flashy, but doesnt have the ATHLETIC ABILITY to match his super creativity.

The BIRDMAN shouldnt have been in the dunk contest- he did much better last year. Amare had some decent dunks, but it took him several tries.

I wanna see a REAL DUNK contest. Vince Carter, LeBron James, Jason Richardson, Kobe Bryant, and Josh Smith.

Anyone in that group would have won this years contest.

AGAIN, not trying to take anything away from JOSH SMITH- his dunks were significantly better than a combination of all other players DUNKS. However, u gotta admit- the competition was kinda weak. but then again, isint that the trend these days in the DUNK CONTEST?

but like DIESEL said, bringing KENYON in definitely helped JOSH SMITH. Of Course he helped himself by making the dunk, but bringing in a fan favorite NUGGET helps. Putting on the NIQUE jersey and making the dunk in 1 try automatically gives him atleast a 45 for that dunk.

[Dakin]

larry nance is one of the greatest dunkers ever. Amare Stoudamire and any other big man i can think of could never do what he was able to.

[Wretch]

And you weren't disputing that anyone said he had the greatest dunks. Just that:

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Lastly, his dunks were impressive but not great. Right now, I think that J-Rich would have beat him in a dunk contest because...

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All I took from that was that you thought his dunks were GOOD but not GREAT. Greatest wasn't even the topic here. In regards to being great, there's no arguement. His performances were right up there. Perhaps he didn't invent the Tomahawk Jam, but 90% of this stuff is redone and tweaked anyway.

Anyways, he did those dunks in no less impressive fashion than anyone before him. Three of his dunks I wouldn't say LEGENDARY, but great. But, when he put that Dominique jersey on and did his dunk, that's the stuff of Legend. Like MJ paying homage to Dr. J and getting THAT image plastered on a billion pairs of shoes.

If that whole sequence didn't do it for you, then there's really no point in furthing this. Me personally...I will remember that dunk as fondly as I'll remember Spudd with the 3pt bounce and dunk.

[Diesel]

Greatest is always going to be Nique..

What I did say was impressive but not great.

So all that's neccessary is to define great.

I said Being great means top 5. I think that's a worthy number being that there have been less than 20 years of slam Dunk contests (I think).

Then I ranked them for you.

Not only did I rank them, I told you about the ones that were not in the top ten that I was not impressed with to give you an understanding of what Impressive meant.

By default, I would say that all slam dunk champions are good but not all are impressive. For instance, Desmond Mason was good but he falls short of impressive and he's sure not great or the greatest.

There's no need to build up an argument here, I think I laid everything out for you to be easily understood.

Of his dunks, I think the Kenyon Martin dunk was one of the better ones that I have seen.

What I'm saying about Smoove's win is yes, he's probably one of the better champions but he lacks the showmanship for now to be great. All I said was that I think J-Rich, Vince, or even Lebron would have beaten him if they were in it because they knew how to play to the crowd. Next year, Smoove will probably be more dominant and his win might fall under the category of great.

[chillzatl]

It's not like your opinion is backed up by anything more than...your opinion. Jr Rider was a flake, but his through the legs dunk was as spectacular as any dunk in the history of the contest. Nobody had EVER done that dunk in an NBA contest and he flushed it with authority. The dunk holds its own with any dunk in the history of the contest. The same holds true for Joshs dunks.

So in your opinion a dunk has to be in your top 5 to be considered great. Ok, fine.. myself and many others (jet, Barkley and Magic included) felt his dunk would stacked up against the best ever by any contestant. But that's our opinions.

And c'mon, putting on that jersey was the best showmanship that the contest has seen since Vince hung from the rim by his elbow. There's a different between polish and showmanship. Josh wasn't polished. But he wasn't lacking any showmanship either.

[Diesel]

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So in your opinion a dunk has to be in your top 5 to be considered great. Ok, fine.. myself and many others (jet, Barkley and Magic included) felt his dunk would stacked up against the best ever by any contestant.

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Again... You miss everything I said.

Moreover, this whole hawksquawk world is nothing but opinions so thank you master of the obvious???

Moreover, the contest itself is All subjection... So thank you homer.

Anyway...

I said that His dunks do hold up with the best in HIstory... At the same time, I said he would lose to guys like J-Rich or Vince or Lebron because they can sell their dunks alot better. What I ranked was not the dunks, I ranked the performance in those years. When you put the totals together there were some astounding performances...

Look over Jordan in Seattle. What makes that one a great performance is that Jordan introduced a lot of new dunks:

Kiss the rim. A tribute to Dr. J. From the free throw line. And there was another. He blew away the competition.

IN Chicago, he faced Nique. Nique had already won one, Jordan had his win. NIQUE got the lowest score for a Dunk that truly showed that the judging was subjective and not based on what the guys did out there. Because in the competition, Jordan got a 50 for what we consider a 45 now. A poor remake of his Dr. J. tribute.

Look at Brent Barry. He had less competition but there was nothing spectacular about his performance either.

When History judges Smooves performance...

First off, there was little competition. You got albert and costello taking 8 attempts... Secondly, he didn't know how to work the crowd. The best thing he did was get KMart in the chair. I felt that the Kmart Dunk was probably the best Dunk I have seen in years... BUT how did he sell it? Watch Vince in GS... He gives clues about how to sell! So yes... It's my opinion... However, I believe I put a challenge out there for you to rank... Why not go ahead and rank smooves #1 out of those. currently, by my count he's #6. Either you ought to grow some balls and answer my challenge or shut the hell up with your lame duck argument... Where do you rank it?

[TheDude]

alot of people didn't think the first dunk was all that impressive..and maybe it didn't seem to be..but after thinking about it, it was perfect for a first dunk..

think about this- most dunkers use that dunk as their winner dunk, ala Brent Barry, Jordan...he came out and said, "i'm gonna start with this just to show you it's easy for me."...plus he started from the same point J did..

the 2nd dunk was nasty, the 3rd was retro, and the last was REALLY nasty...one of the best in a long long time..i think he could have still beat the other big names..

here's what i want to see done- 360, tomahawk, or twohander, from the free throw line...that's a winner.

[Diesel]

I was just thinking that...

Not the 360 tomahawk...

But the between the legs or around the back from the free throw line..

Also... I will say that the dunk bird man attempted which was off the top of the building with a catch and slam from halfcourt would have been impressive too.

[Wretch]

First you come out and say, his dunks were good but not great. That's what I called you out on, not how legendary (or great) his performace was. Smith did some great dunks. All were very good. All were impressive.

But you returned with a list of your greatest and replied that Smith's performance was not one of the greatest in your book of 10 - which is a whole new subject and had nothing to do with what I was saying.

But in response to what you came out with, I'll say this... I can't respond to where you placed Josh, because I don't rate (or remember) all around performances. Regardless, if he's in your top 10 or even close to your elite 5, then that says legendary to me.

In terms of overall performace, I totally agree with you about his "showmanship." He's a quiet guy with a loud game. He needs to work the crowd and he needs better presence on the mic. I don't dispute that at all. I'm not sure if I can just come out and say so-and-so would have beat him, because if those guys were coming to dunk I think Smith would have been coached differently and would have came out different.

I do have a top 5 list of individual favorite dunks:

Vince Carter with the arm in the basket

Spudd Webb with the bounce 3

And Josh Smith's homage to Nique

Kenny Smith with the two basketballs.

Dee Brown's cover-up

And yeah, I'd give Dee Brown a little more props than you gave him. He put on a great show.

[Diesel]

This is what I said....

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Second, selling himself...

Josh doesn't have a swaggered.

Even though his dunks were dominating

, first off, he didn't play the crowd. Second, two of his dunks went off before the camera man was ready. The camera man was looking at Dr. J talking and Josh is dunking...

That comes with experience I guess but J-Smoove has to get it. I think that he should let Nique mentor him a bit.

Funny is that Kmart loves J-Smoove. I wonder if he has any regrets about not coming to Atlanta? I also wonder, will there be a fight keeping J-Smoove from going to Denver in 4 years?

Lastly,

his dunks were impressive but not great

. Right now, I think that J-Rich would have beat him in a dunk contest because J-Rich knows how to play to the crowd and self promote.

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This is what you heard?

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First you come out and say, his dunks were good but not great. That's what I called you out on, not how legendary (or great) his performace was.

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See the problem??

I'm talking about how his performance was not a great one because he didn't sell his dominating dunks.... I'm talking about how his performance is impressive not great or legendary but somehow you hear me say "JUST GOOD"...

I guess what you are saying is " Diesel, it doesn't matter what you said originally, I heard a good.... Even though you were talking about his performance and him selling his dunks, all I heard is good."....

It's funny.

[Wretch]

But you are too busy scrambling and changing the subject. Nobody is disupiting that the kid could have sold himself better, but that wasn't the theme of your original post - it was only part of it.

Your original blathering (in chronilogical order) was all about his camera presence, how he didn't work the crowd and sell himself, and lastly (and this is the 2nd time I've quoted you BTW):

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Lastly, his dunks were impressive but not great. Right now, I think that J-Rich would have beat him in a dunk contest because J-Rich knows how to play to the crowd and self promote.

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You come off talking about things other than his ability to dunk. Then you follow that with his dunks were impressive but not great and you didn't really tie this together. Then you throw in a little "Bring the real dunkers to the stage...." to ice the cake. You would have been clearer saying , "His dunks were impressive, but his overall performance wasn't great." Then elaborate and specifiy that you are not targeting his individual dunks, but how camera presence and selling would have helped.

Your ideas are scattered and all it sounds like you're saying in your initial post was that you weren't impressed. Then you start scrambling TRYING to tie in the greatest overall performances of all time to what you were saying initially.

To which I replied:

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And you weren't disputing that anyone said he had the greatest dunks. Just that:

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Lastly, his dunks were impressive but not great. Right now, I think that J-Rich would have beat him in a dunk contest because...

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All I took from that was that you thought his dunks were GOOD but not GREAT. Greatest wasn't even the topic here.

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(See the quote there? Rock on.)

The problem is, your initial opinion didn't really hold up and you tried to reiterate it and change it at the same time. You can't do that without backtracking man. But if you believe it, then hey! the Will of Diesel is all that matters.

[Diesel]

Actually...

The theme overall was that we have to teach Smoove how to sell himself...

The a and b part was infront of the camera and on the floor.

I called it selling himself...

In the midst of talking about selling himself on the court, I did have a scattered thought about worrying about Martin trying to draw Smoove to Denver....

BUT I came back to the subject when I said his dunks (talking about the total performance were impressive but not great).

The funniest part Wretch is that you've quoted this...

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Lastly, his dunks were impressive but not great. Right now, I think that J-Rich would have beat him in a dunk contest because J-Rich knows how to play to the crowd and self promote.

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several times and have tried to make an argument about the first part... BUT did you even look at the second part???

because J-Rich knows how to play to the crowd and self promote

This ties my thoughts back to the original point. J-smoove has to learn how to sell himself. (Period)

How can you quote this same line several times and MISS that???

To define it...

It's not because J-Rich has better dunks... It's because J-Rich knows how to sell his dunks and right now Smoove does not.

So, let me tell you like I told chills...

Instead of trying to change what I have stated or even say that I had a different Intent...

Take the challenge.

Define what you think is great and RANK the dunk performances... and tell me where you have Smoove ranked... Currently, I have his at #6.

[hawkman]

This debate is insane. Have the Hawks been losing so much that even when they get some good publicity we have to pick it apart and find reasons to criticize it??? There was only one Hawk present at all star weekend and he did a great job on both nights. Heck, even Sportcenter opened up its recap of the dunk contest with "a star is born". We only have ten wins this season and have yet to win two games in a row. I say appreciate whatever "wins" we can get at this point.As for Smoove's camera presence, that will come in time.

[Nicholasp27]

if kmart/smoove were that close, kmart woulda chosen us over denver...same money on the table...

smoove ain't leaving his hometown as long as we treat him right...