Diesel Ranks the SGs...

[Diesel]

This is my list of guys who SHOULD BE SGs and where they fall in the rankings.

1. Lebron James. The Stage is set, this is his year.

2. TMAC. Don't hate, Congratulate. TMac is probably the best scorer in the league.

3. Ray Allen. Say what you want. Ray didn't have a lot to work with in Seattle and he showed up in a major way.

4. Kobe. Since Shaq has left, there is a lot of truth being seen in his game. He can't make those around him better.

5. Dwayne Wade. Yep, Wade is climbing. Interesting to me is that Wade did better with those guys than Kobe did with those guys.

6. Vince. You should disrespect the Sarge. Vince has more potential talent than anybody in the league. But he has heart problems.

7. JJ. I think you have to start to look at JJ here. 6'7 230, ball handler, who can shoot from outside. He's bigger than everybody on the list. He's stronger than everybody on the list. He's more versatile than everybody on the list. He's a better shooter than everybody on the list (Save Big Baby Jesus Shuttlesworth). I wouldn't call him a scorer though... Which is why he's back here.

8. Manu. He was jipped as the MVP voting was casted. I still don't think he is as good as these guys because when you have Duncan, it frees you up to play however, you want. BUT when you have to do it by yourself, I think that's where Manu will fall.

9. Larry Hughes. Forget the writer of the last column. Hughes deserves to make the list. He's one of the best defenders at the SG position and he knows how to get his shots.

10. JRich. Aside from not being able to play Strong defense, you can't find a whole lot of defeciencies in his game.

Guys who I wasn't sure about their Position:

AI - I don't know, maybe he will remain a PG?

Peja - This guy is a Sf right?

[Plainview1981]

My list:

1.Dwayne Wade-He has shown what he can do in the playoffs

not only last year... But the year before that. I can't

remember what his stats where two years ago, but he showed

the ability to be unstopable with or without Shaq in

the lineup. He plays really good defense, athletic, a

good teammate and he can play the 1 or 2.

2.Kobe Bryant-I think if Kobe is ever going to be the

best he can be this would probably be the reason. He is

28 years old and he has Phil with alot of the baggage

from a few years ago out of the way. With Shaq no longer

in LA, I expect Phil and the triangle to be a better

fit for Kobe now.

3.Labron James-What can you say? The guy can play the

1-3 positions all with effectiveness. He can score by

taking it to the rack and has clearly improved his

3-pt shot as he shot over 35% this past year. He

rebounds really well, and is solid passer. The only

really knock is that he is a below average defensive

player.

4.Tracy McGrady-Has alot of the same things as Kobe,

but his problems are that sometimes he plays heartless

while Kobe is at times selfish. Might be the best

scorer in the league, and he often makes things look

easy out there. A good defensive player when he wants

to be, a good ball handler and shooter. Needs to learn

how to play with more passion.

5.Vince Carter-A once awesome in your face dunker who

has turned into a jumpshooter that often avoids contact.

However, he still can score at will, has possibly the

most athletic ability in the NBA, and has a really good

jumpshot. Like Tmac, he needs to play with passion on

a more consistant basis.

6.Ray Allen-I got to admit, he is a better alround

player that I used to give him credit for. One of the

most deadly jumpshooters in the NBA... And since he

went to Seattle he has shown that he can control the

ball and be more than just a Reggie Miller or Allan

Houston type of scorer.

7.Paul Pierce-He has fallen down my list the last two

years... I wouldn't say that he has lost a step, he

just don't seem to play with the passion he did a

few years ago when he was one of the most deadly 4th

period players in the NBA. He doesn't have the

athletic ability of a Carter, Richardson or Kobe..

But he plays smart and has the ability to get to

where ever he wants on the floor. Strikes me as more

of a 2nd option instead of a 1st option now.

8.Jason Richardson-People seem to have forgot about

him since he won the dunk contest a few years ago.

But he has since become a better allround player. His

jumpshot has SLOWLY improved the last two seasons, and

he has athletic ability that might be second only to

Vince Carter. Can score and rebounds fairly well, and

can play the 2 or the 3. Needs to improve that ugly

FT percentage and a few more trips to the foul line

wouldn't hurt.

9.Joe Johnson-Could move up next year, but it remains

to be seen if he can be as effective as a number 1

option. He has shown the ability to be a solid defender

at the swing positions, and has improved his shot the

last two years, aswell as seemingly found the will to

improve after two no so good seasons to start his

career. Good ball handling skills and an improving jump

shot.

10.Larry Hughes-I'm reluctant to put him this high

simply because he waited to his FA year to finally

start playing to his potential. His really good

athletic ability, good hands on defense, and can

play the 1-3 positions with effectiveness. Scores

on below average shooting... Is he a team player?

It he repeats last years success he should move up

on the list.

------------------------------------------------------------

Emanuel Ginobilli

Corey Maggette

Rip Hamilton

Michael Redd

Kirk Hinrich

[chillzatl]

You make me laugh with your Kobe-hate. I was honestly surpised to see you put him as high as 4th. I guess that's why I get up every day, you never know what might happen.

[Diesel]

Can you really say that Kobe is better than anybody that was placed ahead of him..

Let's be honest here...

NO SHAQ... NO RING.

However, Lebron is doing more with less in Cleveland than Kobe is doing in LAL with NO Shaq.

Tmac did more in Orlando than Kobe with NO Shaq.

Ray is doing more in Seattle than Kobe with NO Shaq.

You're right, Kobe is lucky to be up this much.

Honestly again, Wade as a rookie looked better with Odom, Butler, etc than Kobe after 3 rings did...

Is it KOBE hate or is it honesty?

Then on top of that..

How many of these SGs go through coaches the WAY Kobe does.

RUDY T. Just QUIT!!!

Next thing I know, Rudy T's name is being mentioned for the minny job?

Kobe is hard to get along with and if not for the girlfriend and the money, Phil wouldn't be going back...

[Weez]

Hmmm...well didn't Riley quit on Wade and crew much quicker than Rudy quit on Kobe?

Weren't the Lakers' in playoff position at the time (prior to Kobe's injury).

Yeah, I know we're starting this argument all over again...but I have a question...if you would rather have, as your team's 'best player/on-court leader,' a player who was sometimes 'too selfish' or a player that 'sometimes plays without heart or dedication'?

[thesource966]

Vince is the most overrated player in the league, no way is he Top 10. He was good until he became allergic to contact.

But his slam dunk performace is the best of all time.

[Final_quest]

The one thing I will say is that Manu is overrated. Any team that wins a championship suddenly has a top 5 player at every position. Let's see how Manu would do on a team like last years Hawks squad.

The same thing happens with Hall of Fame voting. You wonder if Pippen would make it to the hall of fame if he didn't play his whole career with Jordan. Based on what Pippen did without Jordan would you say he was a top 50 player of all time? I thought so too.

[Weez]

I thought a rather talentless Pippen-lead Bulls team (not greatly unchanged, though I don't know the exact details) came within a phantom call of making the NBA finals.

Pippen's numbers in 94-95? 38 mpg, 21.4, 8.1. 5.2, 2.9 spg & 1.13 bpg with on 48% & 34.5% from distance.

that's pretty damn good.

[chillzatl]

Yes, I can actually. I would, without hestitation, put Kobe and Lebron tied at 1. Everyone else, Tmac, Allen, etc, is 3 or lower, period.

I didn't see Shaq win anything without Kobe either..and he won't do it this coming season either.

Lebron did MORE with LESS? You're out of your mind... Lebron, in a weak east, had the best record in his division for 2/3rds of the season and then fell apart. He had a better, more cohesive team that Kobe did and NO INJURIES. Yet he couldn't squeak into the 8th spot in a conference that only really had 3 good teams. Despite this, he still sits at the top. Because I, unlike you, recognize that this is a team game.

Tmac also had a better team and he had a strong inside presence with Yao. Tmac is a p*ssy, no defense playing cry baby who can't take the pressure of being the man. Give me a [censored] break. He quit on his team in orlando for god sakes.

Ray allen also had a much better, more complete TEAM. They didn't win because Ray Allen is a top 4 shooting guard, They won because he played on a better team with a better 12 man roster than the Lakers.

Yes, you're a hater. Period. it has absolutely nothing to do with honesty, that's laughable coming from you. You've always hated on Kobe, everyone knows it, everyone has read it and you can't hide it.

[chillzatl]

Diesel, the sell proclaimed basketball wizard, conveniently ignores all logic and common sense when it comes to attacking Kobe.

He consistantly seems to think that a team with Kobe, Caron Butler, an injuried Lamar Odom and nobody else was somehow really good and it was entirely Kobes fault that they didn't make the playoffs.

He refuses to acknowledge that they were comfortably in the 6th spot with a month left in the season. Until Odom and then Kobe both got injured. I guess he expected Caron Butler to carry the team and when he couldn't, it was obviously Kobe's fault...

He refuses to acknowledge that Kobe was having his single best season EVER. More assists, more rebounds, more points and naturally, more turnovers. For 3/4 of the season he had a horrible shooting %. But he still managed to get it up to 43%. All this, playing on a team that was pieced together while other guys were playing on teams that were practically built around their abilities.

[RAHMOR]

Great post.

I checked NBA.com and compared Wade,T-mac,Bron, and Kobe's stats from last year and LeBron is easily the best stat wise but I have to give Kobe credit for what's he's done, whether Shaq was there or not.

[Diesel]

Shaq builds the House. Kobe lives in it while Shaq is building and Kobe gets the credit???

Tell me this...

When will Kobe be in the finals again?

The correct answer is probably NEVER.

When will Kobe see another Conference finals?

The correct answer is probably NEVER.

To me, Kobe has fallen to the level of Vince and AI.

Good scorers. But not worth talking about as best SG in the league.

Kobe now has to prove himself without Shaq. I don't think he can prove much more than Penny before him! Shaq makes every SG he plays with LOOK Good!

[mrhonline]

Quote:

---

The one thing I will say is that Manu is overrated. Any team that wins a championship suddenly has a top 5 player at every position. Let's see how Manu would do on a team like last years Hawks squad.

The same thing happens with Hall of Fame voting. You wonder if Pippen would make it to the hall of fame if he didn't play his whole career with Jordan. Based on what Pippen did without Jordan would you say he was a top 50 player of all time? I thought so too.

---

Manu would score 25+ ppg on the Hawks and be considered one of the top players in the NBA. He's electric, hard to defend, passes well, can play some PG, is a pesky defender, is a team player, and has worked hard on his outside game.

What more can you expect of a SG?

[Plainview1981]

Yes. Pippen is a HOF with or without MJ... One of the

best defensive players ever and a 19/7/5 type of player

in his prime. Didn't he have back problems his last

year with Chicago? That and the fact he was getting old

played apart in his decline with Houston.

I don't think you are being fair to Pippen.

[RAHMOR]

If Kobe deserves no credit than neither does Shaq. Shaq builds a house San Antonio or another team sweeps it out of the playoffs until Phil takes over as coach. So truthfully if one person deserved credit it's Jackson. Actually no one person deserved credit for the Lakers dynasty, basketball is a team game and Kobe is just as responsible for the rings as Shaq just as if Miami wins Wade will be just as responsible for Miami championship. Kobe deserves his credit.

[chillzatl]

you give Shaq all the credit, what the hell has he done since he left kobe? I'll tell you what he did, he went to a team with yet another player that is better and more committed than he was and he came within one game of going to the finals. But since he didn't go, he immediately questioned his "role" to the media and in the oh so subtle way that only Shaq can do, he basically threw his team and coach under the bus.

I don't recall kobe taking any cheap shots at his inferior teammates last season, though he rightfully could have.

As far as what Kobe will do in teh future, give me a break. he will likley play 10+ years more and he will likely be a top 5 player the entire time. I like his chances of making another finals. but to say "probably never" just shows how much of a biased hater you are.

[Weez]

I'm assuming that you replied to me but that post was not intended for me? I think I was defending Pippen (always have for whatever reasons).

In regards to your later posts...what has Wade done 'on his own'?

he had a great 'team' last year with Odom, Grant, and the others...but he wasn't even the featured player on the team (Odom was). He got Shaq and crew this year...got a little further in the playoffs...but still hasn't put up near the numbers Kobe has.

[Plainview1981]

Wade plays defense...Kobe doesn't always.... Wade

seems more of a team player. Kobe has a questionable

shot selection and takes too tough of shots at times

which lowers his percentage. He and Tmac seem to have

baggage that Wade has yet to really show.

"great 'team'"

Wade still lead the team in scoring, assists, FG%

in 2's and 3's, 2nd in steals last year in the

playoffs for the Heat. About the only thing he wasn't

1st or second in was rebounding. The playoffs in

2004 is when Wade started to really break out. In

fact, alot of the Heat players were rather mediocre

in the 2004 playoffs:

http://www.nba.com/heat/stats/2003/playoffs_stats.html

Granted, Kobe has a larger sample size... But Wades

numbers his first two playoff seasons are actually

better than Kobe's:

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/dwyane_wade/...x.html?nav=page

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/kobe_bryant/index.html

About Pippen... I was commenting about the guy that

said Pippen wouldn't be a HOF if it wasn't for MJ.

[Plainview1981]

I'd take Wade over Labron too mainly because James

plays very little to no defense and doesn't seem to

play with as much heart as Wade does. Besides, Labron

hasn't even lead a team to the playoffs yet. The

Cavs crumbled late in the season.

The thing is that Wade, James, Kobe or Tmac are all

good enough to have the number 1 crown this year. It's

just my opinion of the best last time I seen them

last year. I do feel Kobe could regain the top spot

this year with the triangle being focused around him

now.

[Weez]

I actually meant to reply to Diesel, not you. Thus the confusion.

also, it's been bugging me: LeBron (not La)

does Wade really pop into your head in terms of 'defense'...doesn't for me (neither does Bron, just saying).